Need a Class Action Lawsuit - Porsche Mobile Charger

[DerekS]

I hope the statement that third party mobile chargers may invalidate your warranty. Does Porsche endorse any other mobile chargers beyond their own?

This would be a fight I would truly hate to have if one of these third party chargers damages my car and invalidates my warranty.

There is no way the warranty requires only charging on Porsche chargers.

That would be like requiring ICE Porsches to fill up at the dealership.

Everyone really needs to stop freaking out about this.

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[daveo4EV]

Does Porsche endorse any other mobile chargers beyond their own?

1st off let's get our terminology straight

the "CHARGER" is inside the vehicle - it's is a hardware/software module that converts AC to DC - there is NO SUCH thing as a 3rd party charger. It's is 100% controlled by Porsche/Audi/VW - you couldn't change it if you wanted to.

all the external "boxes" people commonly refer to as chargers are technically EVSE's (Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment) - they are a "relay-switch" that starts and stops the flow of "raw AC power" from the grid. They conform to a published standard called SAE J-1772 in North America - and an ISO standard in Europe.

So if the external power switch can damage the battery - Porsche is in essence saying 120V/240V AC power from the grid can damage the battery. EVSE's do not fold/spindle/mutilate/modify/change/filter/adjust/look-cross-eyed at the raw AC power flow - what ever is flowing into the EVSE from the grid flows out through the J-1772 connector - the EVSE is purely flow-control - start/stop - nothing more - the power that "hits" the AC/DC converter _INSIDE_ the vehicle is what ever power would've bee delivered directly from the power-pole

the dealership is telling you that grid power provided by a non-Porsche on/off switch can damage your vehicle. it's so laughable it's making me cry.

they _ONLY_ provide "raw AC power" - so if providing "raw AC" power to the onboard factory charger can "damage" the battery - well then we are all f**ked…

this hypothetical conversation is pointless - the warranty claims are ridiculous - and if this were true you could NOT charge your Taycan at _ANY_ hotel/business/restaurant/mall/sports-venue or anywhere a public AC/FastDC charger was provided.

the EVSE is _NOT_ a charger - it's simply a glorified extension cord that starts/stops the flow of raw AC power under control of the vehicle. At no point in time is it possible to use "an unauthorized charger" - because the battery chargers and it's associated software is factory module not accessible or changeable by the vehicle owner…

saying that an external power switch on a glorified extension cord could potentially damage the battery is height of stupidity - the onboard battery charger from the factory should "defend" against "bad AC power" - and frankly it does - I've seen it do so.

this conversation is "insane"

the fact that Porsche can claim an external AC power switch can damage the battery is only slightly more ridiculous than the fact that Porsche screwed up something frankly this simple…J-1772 EVSE's that don't overheat @ 40 amps is not a hard problem.

 

[tomdfw1]

1st off let's get our terminology straight

the "CHARGER" is inside the vehicle - it's is a module that converts AC to DC - there is NO SUCH thing as a 3rd party charger.

all the external "boxes" people commonly refer to are actually EVSE's (Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment) - they are a "switch" that starts and stops the flow of "raw AC power". They conform to a published standard called SAE J-1772 in North America - and an ISO standard in Europe.

they _ONLY_ provide "raw AC power" - so if providing "raw AC" power to the onboard factory charger can "damage" the battery - well then we are all f**ked…

this hypothetical conversation is pointless - the warranty claims are ridiculous - and if this were true you could NOT charge your Taycan at _ANY_ hotel/business/restaurant/mall/sports-venue or anywhere a public AC/FastDC charger was provided.

the EVSE is _NOT_ a charger - it's simply a glorified extension cord that starts/stops the flow of raw AC power under control of the vehicle. At no point in time is it possible to use "an unauthorized charger" - because the battery chargers and it's associated software is factory module not accessible or changeable by the vehicle owner…

saying that an external power switch on a glorified extension cord could potentially damage the battery is height of stupidity - the onboard battery charger from the factory should "defend" against "bad AC power" - and frankly it does - I've seen it do so.

this conversation is "insane"

the fact that Porsche can claim an external AC power switch can damage the battery is only slightly more ridiculous than the fact that Porsche screwed up something frankly this simple…J-1772 EVSE's that don't overheat @ 40 amps is not a hard problem.

Got it...thanks for clarifying the terminologies for many of us.

But not so fast my friend, perhaps someone should tell Porsche to stop calling it a mobile charger if it is not a charger. If I am understanding you...Porsche is calling their "Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment" either Porsche Mobile Charger Plus or Porsche Mobile Charger Connect. THESE are what are faulty and they call them both CHARGERS! These are what we need to replace with an EVSE?

Bottom line for me is that I paid $2500 for a 40A charger and want a refund because they told me it can not be used beyond 20A. I don't care what they call it!

 

[daveo4EV]

1st off let's get our terminology straight

the "CHARGER" is inside the vehicle - it's is a hardware/software module that converts AC to DC - there is NO SUCH thing as a 3rd party charger. It's is 100% controlled by Porsche/Audi/VW - you couldn't change it if you wanted to.

all the external "boxes" people commonly refer to as chargers are technically EVSE's (Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment) - they are a "relay-switch" that starts and stops the flow of "raw AC power" from the grid. They conform to a published standard called SAE J-1772 in North America - and an ISO standard in Europe.

So if the external power switch can damage the battery - Porsche is in essence saying 120V/240V AC power from the grid can damage the battery. EVSE's do not fold/spindle/mutilate/modify/change/filter/adjust/look-cross-eyed at the raw AC power flow - what ever is flowing into the EVSE from the grid flows out through the J-1772 connector - the EVSE is purely flow-control - start/stop - nothing more - the power that "hits" the AC/DC converter _INSIDE_ the vehicle is what ever power would've bee delivered directly from the power-pole

the dealership is telling you that grid power provided by a non-Porsche on/off switch can damage your vehicle. it's so laughable it's making me cry.

they _ONLY_ provide "raw AC power" - so if providing "raw AC" power to the onboard factory charger can "damage" the battery - well then we are all f**ked…

this hypothetical conversation is pointless - the warranty claims are ridiculous - and if this were true you could NOT charge your Taycan at _ANY_ hotel/business/restaurant/mall/sports-venue or anywhere a public AC/FastDC charger was provided.

the EVSE is _NOT_ a charger - it's simply a glorified extension cord that starts/stops the flow of raw AC power under control of the vehicle. At no point in time is it possible to use "an unauthorized charger" - because the battery chargers and it's associated software is factory module not accessible or changeable by the vehicle owner…

saying that an external power switch on a glorified extension cord could potentially damage the battery is height of stupidity - the onboard battery charger from the factory should "defend" against "bad AC power" - and frankly it does - I've seen it do so.

this conversation is "insane"

the fact that Porsche can claim an external AC power switch can damage the battery is only slightly more ridiculous than the fact that Porsche screwed up something frankly this simple…J-1772 EVSE's that don't overheat @ 40 amps is not a hard problem.

the quesdotn will come down to "authorized EVSEs" - I believe Porsche would be hard pressed to say only their EVSE is "authorized" - they should/must support _ANY_ SAE J-1772 standards compliant EVSE - that's the whole point of the standard and it's a public standard for which Porsche tests their vehicles with.

they must support any standards compliant J-1772 EVSE because they sell a $1,680 19.2 kW charging option for North America Taycan's and yet they do not provide a reliable source for a 19.2 kW EVSE (the Porsche wall charger is currently unavailable due to unpublished technical issues).

A mobile EVSE vs. a Wall mounted EVSE is also a "false" distinction - in both cases they are simply a J-1772/ISO compliant EVSE that turns on/off a raw AC power flow.

Again it's impossible for Porsche to limit charging any of their EV/Hybrids to "their" EVSE - since they have no way to enforce it or detect it - and at the end of the day they sell a problem that requires non-Porsche EVSE to deliver on published charging performance - namely 19.2 kW charge rate with a non-Porsche EVSE.

 

[daveo4EV]

Got it...thanks for clarifying the terminologies for many of us. But perhaps someone should tell Porsche to stop calling it a mobile charger if it is not a charger. Correct me, but if I am understanding you... they call their "Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment" either Porsche Mobile Charger Plus or Porsche Mobile Charger Connect. THESE are what are faulty and they call them both CHARGERS!

Bottom line for me is that I paid $2500 for a 40A charger and want a refund because they told me it can not be used beyond 20A. I don't care what they call it!

yes the PMCC/PMC+ is technically a J-1772 EVSE (well technically it uses either J-1772 or an ISO standard that is a bit more robust @AndiL help me out here please with the ISO standard reference) - Porsche is not helping with the name of their product.

but the PMCC/PMC+ are North American standards compliant EVSE's (or at least they are supposed to be - but alas…) - but honestly they aren't because Porsche is doing a few things with the latest update - they are admitting:

1. that there are reliablity/thermal issues running at full 40 amps - so yeah out stuff can't handle the load…
2. they have quietly announced that really their EVSE only works with VW/Audi/Porsche vehicles - another disappointment IMHO - and yeah that standard J-1772 connector on the end of our cable - well just kidding - our stuff really won't charge any other EV - unlikely every other EVSE sold in North America
3. Yeah we have the most expensive mobile EVSE on the market right now ($3200 when no included with the vehicle) But don't use it at it's full 9.6 kW charge rate, and don't expect it to charge your other J-1772 vehicles - really only use it with our vehicles, and don't push it too hard - it will get mad.

EVSE's are like USB power bricks - they really should work with any device - since they are just raw power feed - and eventually you should just have a robust/single L2 EVSE in your home and it will meet all of your EV charging needs because it's not vendor specific…Porsche is disappointing in this regards.

I agree - we all paid for a 40 amp 9.6 kW EVSE and with this latest update Porsche no longer provides that product due to product design defects that the EVSE can not operate at it's published capacities with out potential thermal/reliability issues.

 

[Archimedes]

This thread reminds me of the time they played a game of telephone at my Dad’s nursing home.

Seriously though, does it void my warranty if I charge my car after midnight during a full moon?

 

[daveo4EV]

This thread reminds me of the time they played a game of telephone at my Dad’s nursing home.

Seriously though, does it void my warranty if I charge my car after midnight during a full moon?

warranty issues are irrelevant given that the charger will overheat and melt your plug socket - thereby never actually charging your battery - if the battery can't be charged - it can't be damaged by charging - therefore there is no warranty issue.

easy.

but yeah - full moon help.

 

[Jhenson29]

Seriously though, does it void my warranty if I charge my car after midnight during a full moon?

Is this a Porsche supplied moon or a 3rd party moon?

 

[daveo4EV]

I think the really issue here is Porsche is trying to weasel out of a product recall w/refund - I frankly don't mind them admitting the PMCC/PMC+ it not up to the task - the product is effectively defective for the North American market - they screwed up - they should take it like the big bad corporation they are and take the products back - provide some form of compensation and come forward with a recommendation for an EVSE that meets the bill.

all this teeth nashing is them trying to not admit the PMC+/PMCC isn't suitable for it's published use case and they don't want to be on the hook for the cost of that screw up.

they screwed up the design - they know it - and yet they don't want to bear the cost of that problem.

honestly it is embarrassing in my opinion.

 

[daveo4EV]

Is this a Porsche supplied moon or a 3rd party moon?

3rd party moon's are not supported…because they reflect different sun light.

 

[daveo4EV]

if they were to simply admit their EVSE can't do 9.6 kW - but here is a list of excellent products we recommend as alternatives (and a potential coupon for a discount) that would be way way way more refreshing than this…

we are offering a free upgrade to make our units defaults to 20 amps, but you can set it to 40 amps, but it might overheat, and you can't use someone else's charger, and we don't know when we're going to have a solution, but our dealer network will tell you it voids the warranty to use someone else's EVSE but that honestly makes no senses since we support public L1/L2 AC charging - but yeah our stuff defaults to 20 amps - but you can set it to 40 amps, but that's your risk, oh an here is this nifty sticker to warn you about potential fires…but we don't have a timeline or even a public plan for what we're going to do for EVSE - but our stuff can't run at 9.6 kW - unless you mr/mrs/ms customer set it to that with some caveats - what cavet's? well it might melt your $12 Leviton NEMA 14-50 socket - doh - did we forget to tell you to install a commercial grade power socket like Tesla/Rivian/Lucid/Polestart/Mercedes advise? Sorry - yeah we missed that.

yeah - seriously - not a good look for porsche. - oh and did we tell you it will now take twice as long to charge your Taycan with our stuff? oh we didn't mention that? our bad. yeah it will take twice as long with our stuff if you leave it in our recommended configuration - oh and the sticker not the back of the UNIT with with 9.6 kW and 40 amps plastered all over the place - ignore that - not true.

but:

• no you can't return the unit to us
• no we won't refund your money
• no we won't provide _ANY_ consideration
• no we have no alternative EVSE recommendations
• no we have no time line to announce to restore it's advertised performance
• yes our Dealership network will tell you it voids your battery warranty to use someone else's EVSE
• but yes it will take twice as long to charge your Taycan
• and yes there is no way to make the PMCC 40 amp setting "stick" - so you may wake up to your vehicle not fully charged if there is a power blip during the overnight charging session - so yeah it's no longer a reliable EVSE for predicted charge times if you adjust the setting.
  • oh you're on TOU energy tariffs? and now it's not cost effective to charge your Taycan due to longer charging sessions? Opps…still no alternative EVSE recommended.

{sigh} good thing it drives really well - but if Tesla was pulling this crap you'd all be up in arms.

 

[Genau]

Is this a Porsche supplied moon or a 3rd party moon?

 

[daveo4EV]

INTERNET WIN!!!

+1000 points for @Genau

LOL - honestly.

 

[Genau]

3rd party moon's are not supported…because they reflect different sun light.

...or diffract different sunlight...

 

[WasserGKuehlt]

That would be like requiring ICE Porsches to fill up at the dealership.

Ze pump handl musst haf ze ghenuin Porsche logo, ja? Venn not, ze engin explohds - und no vahrantie!

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