Winter And Cold Temperature Weather EV Range Loss - % loss in popular models (chart)

[FlyingPoint]

I tend to drive the same roads and make the same trips in the Taycan weekly. Range reduction is a fairly constant -20%-25% in freezing and below freezing. Since my trips always start out in a semi heated garage (never below 50 degrees F. I have concluded that air density is a material factor for the mileage reduction. The battery pack seems to a good job of keeping the cabin heated within reason.

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[TYKHAAAN]

I get the same numbers for loss of range in cold temperatures, but I have a question. Why can't the Taycan pre-heat the battery while connected to the utility/charger? Would that make a difference? I believe Tesla's can pre-heat the battery.

You can do this. Preheat the car and battery while fully charged and plugged in, before a long trip in the cold and it will save you range. Assuming you can do this on both ends, you will get some of that range back. But if you have to start cold, and depending on how cold, it can take a pretty big hit to the range.

 

[FlyingPoint]

Has anyone (I have not) tried to program in the NAV module to a DC charger while the car is charging. Could this start a pre-conditioning of the battery whilst plugged in? Think I will try this hack, just thought of it!!

 

[WasserGKuehlt]

Since my trips always start out in a semi heated garage (never below 50 degrees F. I have concluded that air density is a material factor for the mileage reduction. The battery pack seems to a good job of keeping the cabin heated within reason.

How so? I appreciate sharing the data, and am not questioning it, but it'd seem that air density would be a factor at higher speeds (as resistance). The env temp would seem to have a more direct effect on efficiency - the battery is not isolated on the underside, the inverter/electric motors are not operating in a heated space, and keeping the cabin heated takes more energy. All of which were the primary reasons given for the drop in efficiency by the article at the bottom of this thread.

 

[str8tner]

How so? I appreciate sharing the data, and am not questioning it, but it'd seem that air density would be a factor at higher speeds (as resistance). The env temp would seem to have a more direct effect on efficiency - the battery is not isolated on the underside, the inverter/electric motors are not operating in a heated space, and keeping the cabin heated takes more energy. All of which were the primary reasons given for the drop in efficiency by the article at the bottom of this thread.

When I drive at 75-80 mph in 30 degree ambient temperature for an hour , the battery temp rises from 45 to 60 degrees or more. Another hour and it rises a similar amount.

 

[Jrkennedy37]

I think air density for colder and drier seasons is under acknowledged. I notice at lower speeds while cycling required power for the same speed is dramatically higher - for a vehicle traveling 2, 3, or 4x my cycling speed, it would be exponential.

Someone told me recently that dry air is denser than humid air which is very counterintuitive, but ole Wikipedia confirmed it.

There are no doubt a ton of energy sapping demands on the EVs in winter - would love a proper engineer to chime in on which factors have the largest impact.

For what it’s worth, our Taycan is currently down about 25% in range from summer months, and its garage kept and typically preconditioned before heading out (In Dallas which isn’t exactly all that cold).

 

[WasserGKuehlt]

When I drive at 75-80 mph in 30 degree ambient temperature for an hour , the battery temp rises
from 45 to 60 degrees or more. Another hour and it rises a similar amount.

Good data point; for completeness, the same data at summer/higher ambient temperatures would help - does it get warm faster, or warms up to a higher temp etc.

I think air density for colder and drier seasons is under acknowledged. I notice at lower speeds while cycling required power for the same speed is dramatically higher - for a vehicle traveling 2, 3, or 4x my cycling speed, it would be exponential.

Someone told me recently that dry air is denser than humid air which is very counterintuitive, but ole Wikipedia confirmed it.

The same wiki page says air density at 20*C is 93% of the value at 0*C. Seems, indeed, noticeable bordering on significant, though I'm not that kind of engineer to say what its impact on efficiency would be for a given car. (I do know someone who has done CFD modeling in F1, and I'm sure they'll set me straight.)

 

[Deleted member 7514]

This is from two years ago on some test runs on my MY2020 4S on 20 inch tires with the covid lockdown when there wasn't much highway traffic. With the uPdate I would expect 3% further range increase but the per cent ages should remain the same. Battery was from 100% SOC to as near as 0% SOC(<5%) as I willing to risk. Highway speed was a constant 115 kph/71.5 mph on cruise control. Pretty flat roads and no head or tail winds. The maximum range was achieved at or around 68F / 20 C. The colder the temps the bigger the hit.

Temperature C/F​	Distance Traveled Km/Miles​	% Reduction in Range​
22.4 C / 71.5 F	484 km / 300.8 miles	0
11.7 C / 53.1 F	419 km / 260.4 miles	13.4%
1.2 C / 34.7 F	383.2 km / 237.5 miles	20.8%
-8.7 C / 16.3 F	338 km / 210.1 miles	30.2%

Excellent test!

This morning i'm looking at around 200 miles at 100% on the performance battery!

That's around 25% dip on summer 250 range i was getting.

It's -5C outside...

 

[davids]

These numbers are very similar to what we see on our 22' 4S

about the same here on CT 2022. Car parked on the street and it's REALLY cold here -5 to -10 C at nights. I warm it before the drive and it takes ±5% of SOC before I move a car.

 

[Dee]

That's why you have to preheat the battery to minimize the loss of range (actually the loss in efficiency of the battery).
While driving, the motors and inverters provide enough heat to heat the cabin so overall the loss of heat to gain more range is minimal.
The current in the battery will keep the battery at the right temperature too.
Preheating does cost a bit of energy but it's always less than you would need while driving.
In other words, you take that extra energy with you in the battery instead of using it to heat the car/battery.
Charging/discharging also (pre)heats the battery.
It's just about using the current in it's most efficient way, while it's running.

Note:
When using a timer the battery and cabin are preheated, only when it's plugged in.
If it's not plugged in, it'll only preheat the cabin.

 

[plumandreal]

Excellent test!

This morning i'm looking at around 200 miles at 100% on the performance battery!

That's around 25% dip on summer 250 range i was getting.

It's -5C outside...

This morning my GTS reported 132 miles of range on 85% charge. Thats was at -6 degrees. I can also confirm the windscreen washing system isn't good enough to defrost itself at -6. How do they cope in proper cold climates!

 

[B61]

about the same here on CT 2022. Car parked on the street and it's REALLY cold here -5 to -10 C at nights. I warm it before the drive and it takes ±5% of SOC before I move a car.

5% of SoC is quite a lot.
Maybe you are warming the car too long?
It was -5 during the night, two days ago, i start to heat the car 5 minutes before i left the house and it was warm enough. Battery temperature was -2 when i sit into the car… SoC was the same as before, 85%, but it went down to 84 after few hundred meters…. While overall consumption formthat drive was not bad at all. Usually, I spent 7% for that route, yesterday i spent 8%.

 

[FlyingPoint]

How so? I appreciate sharing the data, and am not questioning it, but it'd seem that air density would be a factor at higher speeds (as resistance). The env temp would seem to have a more direct effect on efficiency - the battery is not isolated on the underside, the inverter/electric motors are not operating in a heated space, and keeping the cabin heated takes more energy. All of which were the primary reasons given for the drop in efficiency by the article at the bottom of this thread.

You are correct air density would create more resistance with higher speed travelled through it, assuming no changes to volume, temperature, altitude or humidity. However, it is still a factor at lower vehicle speeds, how much I don't know but am sure it does. Here is why - When landing an aircraft in the hot summer months versus winter with a constant approach speed, the aircraft floats considering longer to bleed off the airspeed. It is so noticeable that landing techniques employed change by season. Those packed molecules in the winter have an effect. While this example refers to the creation of lift, it still applies to the overall density of the air and its resistance.

Heating the cabin requires energy. I have noticed that when the car is parked with a warm battery 55-65 degrees, the cabin is warmer than ambient temperature after a couple of hours. This observation is out of sunlight and low wind conditions. I am assuming some of that heat is making its way to the cabin.

 

[JimBob]

The same wiki page says air density at 20*C is 93% of the value at 0*C. Seems, indeed, noticeable bordering on significant, though I'm not that kind of engineer to say what its impact on efficiency would be for a given car. (I do know someone who has done CFD modeling in F1, and I'm sure they'll set me straight.)

You don't need CFD for this calculation. Just take the drag equation and substitute the new density for air and calculate how much extra energy is needed to overcome the higher air resistance of cold air. This energy is then no longer available for work to travel a distance.

There will be some effect but the major cause of lost range is a cold battery. Cold batteries are sleepy and just deliver less output due to reduced temperature dependent electro chemical reactions.

The interesting question as posted is how much distance is gained if you keep your car in an insulated warm garage on a really cold day. At departure the car thinks it's a warm day, then out in the cold it looses heat, but also generates heat from the battery reactions.

 

[Explorer]

This morning my GTS reported 132 miles of range on 85% charge. Thats was at -6 degrees. I can also confirm the windscreen washing system isn't good enough to defrost itself at -6. How do they cope in proper cold climates!

My 2021 CT4S at -12C (+10.4F) this morning, after approx 20min of preaheating w/o any charge cable connected. Car parked outside for >15hrs. Battery temp at +5C (+41F) which indicated pre-heating is done albeit not charging?!
Range indicator 169km (99 miles) at 54% SoC (~ 313km/194 miles at 100%) not too bad.
Loss against summer (never had more than 400km/249 miles) is around 22%

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