Tesla fires entire Supercharger team. Elon Musk says Supercharger growth will continue however

[kort]

So now Tesla has pulled out leases for additional SC's in the New York City region.

https://electrek.co/2024/04/30/tesla-pulling-back-supercharger-plans-firing-team/

From Electrek:


Sources familiar with the matter told Electrek that Tesla backed out of four leases for upcoming Supercharger locations in New York: one in Maspeth, South Bronx, two in Queens, and one in Gateway Center, Brooklyn.

These were new stations recently announced to address concerns with overcrowded Supercharger stations in New York.

We reported on this issue in January when several stations saw long wait times to access a charger.

The problem was partly due to a surge in Tesla vehicles used by Uber drivers due to a new incentive for the city to electrify its ride-sharing fleet.

In order to address the situation, Tesla promised to deploy 100 additional chargers around New York City by the end of the year and even worked directly with Uber to gather data to locate the new stations at optimal locations.

These four new locations represented the bulk of these planned new stations in the city, and they are gone.

Three of the four sites were “power-ready” – as some work was already being done to prepare them to become charging stations for Tesla.

I have no issue with tesla not installing addition chargers in NYC for ride share services. if NYC wants to mandate things, NYC can cover the costs to implement their mandates. If ride share companies want to expand their use of EVs they, like the rest of us can assume the costs of installing chargers for their cars.
why would tesla be expected assume the burden of adding additional units?

Sponsored

 

[whitex]

Hopefully that erratic nut job lunatic decides to spin off the supercharging network once and for all.

So it can become another EA? I hope not.

 

[whitex]

How is this consistent with “Fires entire supercharger team”?

If I was to speculate. Lowering demand for cars means Tesla sells less, makes even less (as car prices also go down when demand falls). This leaves Tesla with less money to invest back in the business. Supercharger expansion is expensive, likely with years expected for ROI. Tesla investors are expecting profit, no longer willing to finance long term investments with slow returns. Hence cutting on expansion, focus on milking profit out of existing investments until times get better and Tesla has more spare cash to invest.

This could affect opening of superchargers to other brands, Tesla could slow down timelines. Or perhaps exclude slower charging non-Tesla EV's (e.g. less than 100KW), perhaps only at some locations or maybe during peak hours - to maximize revenue per active charger. On the other hand this could speed up adoption, even open the flood gates to anyone with their own adapter, as that could be free revenue for Tesla SCs. Nobody knows for sure.

 

[thecoloradokid]

So it can become another EA? I hope not.

Why would a spun off Tesla supercharging network be relegated to become another Electrify America???? We will never know unless it happens. I am sure many people would prefer that a valuable piece of EV charging infrastructure like the Tesla supercharging network be controlled by a less erratic person.

In April I drove almost 5,000 miles in 7 states in my Taycan and my Rivian. I used EA chargers for all charging except in Grand Junction, CO and Las Vegas, where I used the Rivian chargers when I was in my R1T. Every EA charging cabinet I saw, except for one in Cedar City, UT, worked.

We all have our own opinion about Electrify America, Tesla, Elon Musk, or even Beyonce's new country album. Opinions are what they are. I just know that I have very recent empirical evidence that Electrify America reliability is improving.

Even though I have a Rivian, and can access V3 Tesla superchargers since I have a functioning A2Z adapter, there is no reason for me to leverage that network unless it is an absolutely dire emergency. We all financially support companies, causes, people, or music, that works for us. I just refuse to financially support Tesla anymore while Elon Musk is still de facto running the company.

And, if you don't think there are conversations happening throughout Porsche right now about what is going on with the Tesla supercharging network press leaks and its impact on migrating to a standard NACs format in North America, I have some lovely beach front property in northern New Mexico I would like to show you. I am sure every EV auto manufacturer is trying to measure the variables in how this all shakes out in the future.

Cheers

 

[FlyingPoint]

I have no issue with tesla not installing addition chargers in NYC for ride share services. if NYC wants to mandate things, NYC can cover the costs to implement their mandates. If ride share companies want to expand their use of EVs they, like the rest of us can assume the costs of installing chargers for their cars.
why would tesla be expected assume the burden of adding additional units?

I totally agree, except that we are ones that can't charge while they hog every fast charger.

 

[FlyingPoint]

In April I drove almost 5,000 miles in 7 states in my Taycan and my Rivian. I used EA chargers for all charging except in Grand Junction, CO and Las Vegas, where I used the Rivian chargers when I was in my R1T. Every EA charging cabinet I saw, except for one in Cedar City, UT, worked.

We all have our own opinion about Electrify America, Tesla, Elon Musk, or even Beyonce's new country album. Opinions are what they are. I just know that I have very recent empirical evidence that Electrify America reliability is improving.

Surely, you must know that the majority of the country (USA) has not adopted at quite the same rate as Colorado. The northeast is not horrible, it is unworkable. There is no solution as long as an EV in a major NE city is within a reasonable drive to a fast charging station. Tesla wanted to grab the Infrastructure $$$. He has completed that money grab and the shit will hit the fan. Tesla owners will become like the rest of us. Musk does not want to be connected with it. My thinking is that he spins it off and gets both the federal and state governments to buy or fund it. It appears he is bored and beyond building EV's. The real growth for Tesla is FSD and robotics or it will go bust, and he knows it.

 

[Mr.Smith]

Why would a spun off Tesla supercharging network be relegated to become another Electrify America???? We will never know unless it happens. I am sure many people would prefer that a valuable piece of EV charging infrastructure like the Tesla supercharging network be controlled by a less erratic person.

In April I drove almost 5,000 miles in 7 states in my Taycan and my Rivian. I used EA chargers for all charging except in Grand Junction, CO and Las Vegas, where I used the Rivian chargers when I was in my R1T. Every EA charging cabinet I saw, except for one in Cedar City, UT, worked.

We all have our own opinion about Electrify America, Tesla, Elon Musk, or even Beyonce's new country album. Opinions are what they are. I just know that I have very recent empirical evidence that Electrify America reliability is improving.

Even though I have a Rivian, and can access V3 Tesla superchargers since I have a functioning A2Z adapter, there is no reason for me to leverage that network unless it is an absolutely dire emergency. We all financially support companies, causes, people, or music, that works for us. I just refuse to financially support Tesla anymore while Elon Musk is still de facto running the company.

And, if you don't think there are conversations happening throughout Porsche right now about what is going on with the Tesla supercharging network press leaks and its impact on migrating to a standard NACs format in North America, I have some lovely beach front property in northern New Mexico I would like to show you. I am sure every EV auto manufacturer is trying to measure the variables in how this all shakes out in the future.

Cheers

Has anyone asked how Tesla figured out a way to make money on public charging, yet no other company has found a way?
This will answer your question on why Tesla won't spin off their Supercharging network.

I read there are requirements for NEVI funding which Tesla superchargers don't qualify for. Thats the only hope for public charging

 

[Tooney]

In April I drove almost 5,000 miles in 7 states in my Taycan and my Rivian. I used EA chargers for all charging except in Grand Junction, CO and Las Vegas, where I used the Rivian chargers when I was in my R1T. Every EA charging cabinet I saw, except for one in Cedar City, UT, worked.

We all have our own opinion about Electrify America, Tesla, Elon Musk, or even Beyonce's new country album. Opinions are what they are. I just know that I have very recent empirical evidence that Electrify America reliability is improving.

Welcome back!

 

[whitex]

Why would a spun off Tesla supercharging network be relegated to become another Electrify America???? We will never know unless it happens. I am sure many people would prefer that a valuable piece of EV charging infrastructure like the Tesla supercharging network be controlled by a less erratic person.

The proof is in the result. Every other charging network ran by traditional, non-erratic MBA's seems to have come up short compared to Tesla. There are a few advantages Tesla SC had. One is Elon the dictator. While it offends the "let's drive the consensus", "let's all vote on it" crowd, dictatorship does have an advantage of moving fast, including fail fast and move to new ideas. The caveat is that the result are only as good as the dictator, so there is always a risk of bad dictator and failed business. However, results so far have been in Elon's favor - SC network vs. other charging networks, even NACS vs. CCS (the latter being the great example of a compromise you get when you run things as a democracy in a business). The other advantage Tesla SC network has is funding from Tesla the automaker. An independent charging network can only get funds from investors who look for clear returns. The fact is EV penetration is insufficient to provide consistent demand for EV charging networks today, which creates a catch-22 problem, not enough EV's to make DC charging worth while, which leads to slower EV adoption. It's reminiscent of the color TV issue few decades ago - when color TV's became available, very few people would pay for them as there was no content being broadcast in color. No enough color TV's in consumer hands made broadcasting in color a negative ROI proposition. It took RCA, which owned both TV manufacturing and broadcast stations to force their broadcasters to color despite losing money on it at first, which then drove the demand for color TV's. Same seems to be happening with EVs and DC chargers today. IMHO at least.

In April I drove almost 5,000 miles in 7 states in my Taycan and my Rivian. I used EA chargers for all charging except in Grand Junction, CO and Las Vegas, where I used the Rivian chargers when I was in my R1T. Every EA charging cabinet I saw, except for one in Cedar City, UT, worked.

We all have our own opinion about Electrify America, Tesla, Elon Musk, or even Beyonce's new country album. Opinions are what they are. I just know that I have very recent empirical evidence that Electrify America reliability is improving.

Of course we all have different opinions. I've traveled cross country on EA, as well as Tesla SC. Both are doable, but the latter is better - higher availability, more plugs, more locations. From reading this forum, the opinion on particular charging networks depends on where you live too - read some post from @Jonathan S. for example how he just had to abandon his Taycan for some trips around the north-east due to lack of CCS charging, but with Tesla offering better options.

Even though I have a Rivian, and can access V3 Tesla superchargers since I have a functioning A2Z adapter, there is no reason for me to leverage that network unless it is an absolutely dire emergency. We all financially support companies, causes, people, or music, that works for us. I just refuse to financially support Tesla anymore while Elon Musk is still de facto running the company.

If you are making your decision for political reasons, that's a different story. I get that people have strong convictions. Perhaps you'd rather tow your Rivian when you don't find a working CCS charger than give Tesla even a penny, and that is your right. You might even decide that once NACS becomes the standard, you will go back to ICE car because technically using NACS would be supporting Elon's business. Again, free country, your choice, and I fully support people have such a choice. My arguments here have been purely from a technical and business point of view.

And, if you don't think there are conversations happening throughout Porsche right now about what is going on with the Tesla supercharging network press leaks and its impact on migrating to a standard NACs format in North America, I have some lovely beach front property in northern New Mexico I would like to show you. I am sure every EV auto manufacturer is trying to measure the variables in how this all shakes out in the future.

Of course they are talking. All the traditional automakers are very good at having conversations. It's just that those conversations tend to happen for a very, very long time before (and if) they turn into meaningful results, which are also often underwhelming. I am not saying that Tesla does everything right. I personally moved away from their brand for cars after a decade of driving them. I am however able to recognize things they do much better than others. If you want another example of a company which innovates fast, check out NIO - it reminds me of Tesla in many respects.

 

[whitex]

Has anyone asked how Tesla figured out a way to make money on public charging, yet no other company has found a way?

This is probably a false premise question. Do you have any data that support your assertion that Tesla is making money on public charging? I mean actual PNL, so excluding the benefit of driving demand for their cars, and perhaps exclude any revenue from government grants, as those are temporary subsidies.

 

[thecoloradokid]

All that and no one bit on the new Beyonce record!!!!!!!!

That's what I get for trying to sneak in a little levity into my nut job rants about charging!!!!

 

[Mr.Smith]

This is probably a false premise question. Do you have any data that support your assertion that Tesla is making money on public charging? I mean actual PNL, so excluding the benefit of driving demand for their cars, and perhaps exclude any revenue from government grants, as those are temporary subsidies.

Their entire profit margin for the line that includes charging, service and a few other business lines, was 3%. This is 3% with Tesla on their 4th CFO, which means they are really losing money.
That's why Tesla won't spin off charging as it's own business because it can never make money. It's not a business.

So why is there even a discussion about Teslas supercharger as viable charging solution?
The focus should be on making CCS better and expanding our the network with NEVI funding

 

[Jonathan S.]

[...] Of course we all have different opinions. I've traveled cross country on EA, as well as Tesla SC. Both are doable, but the latter is better - higher availability, more plugs, more locations. From reading this forum, the opinion on particular charging networks depends on where you live too - read some post from @Jonathan S. for example how he just had to abandon his Taycan for some trips around the north-east due to lack of CCS charging, but with Tesla offering better options. [...]

Our household's experiences with my wife's i4 and my CT at the Magic Docks in Enfield CT, Brewster NY, and Clark NJ are so totally unlike anything we have experienced in the Northeast at any other network.
(Although I hear consistently good reports from the NY state-run network, but I just haven't had a trip there yet.)
Next week I have a business trip to Plymouth MA, and am looking forward to charging at the Magic Dock in Foxborough MA.
The charging graph in the i4 phone app always matches up with the theoretical max level along the SoC at each Magic Dock session. The Taycan gets only in the 130s (with the 150 option), but EA almost never gets into the triple digits. And the theoretical ChargePoint 125kw has never gotten out of the 80s even when not shared. Plus EA is almost always just four chargers, one of which is broken, and ChargePoint is just two chargers.
All of which has me even more distraught at the prospect of Tesla no longer planning significant expansion of TSCN. And who knows about expanding CCS1 access as announced.
I read through the Tesla forum thread on this, and alas they're equally distraught.
Maybe IONNA will hire all the laid-off TSCN employees...

 

[Jonathan S.]

All that and no one bit on the new Beyonce record!!!!!!!!

That's what I get for trying to sneak in a little levity into my nut job rants about charging!!!!

I had been about to provide my opinions on your four topics:

• Beyonce's new country album = I am vaguely aware that Beyonce is a musical performer of some sort, female, right?
• Electrify America = The consent decree $2b sure would have seemed to me like a good idea at the time, but apparently VAG decided that the best financial strategy was to focus on spending the $2b w/ little to no concern for sensible charging station layouts or reliability.
• Tesla =Dislike except for the Magic Docks and anticipated access to V3 and V4 TSCN, all of which is now uncertain.
• Elon Musk = Dislike except for TSCN, which apparently he no longer likes.

(So should I ask our 14 yr old daughter about Beyonce?)

 

[feye]

it could mean that he believes that for the most part his network is pretty well built out and he is now focusing on expanding/maintaining the existing chargers rather than building new locations.

Honestly, they cannot sell the junk anymore, so why need a charging network for it? It's game over, even the factory in Germany (with superior quality ) is producing for a huge parking lot at an NVA airfield nearby.

A BMW manager told me last week, that BMW is still doing well in China, with a big upswing in demand for plugin hybrid models. T junk cannot compete in anything, so they have another go on the big robo taxi marketing scam.

Sponsored