Porsche considering retrofit of some 2025 Taycan improvements to pre-facelift model (battery management system, cluster charging screen)

[freeforall]

Hi all

I stumbled into this article relaying statements from Mayk Mienkotter (Porsche spokesperson for Taycan) to Australian media about the fact Porsche is considering to retrofit improvement from J1.2 to J1.1

https://www.drive.com.au/news/porsche-taycan-owners-could-score-upgrades/

Some interesting extracts:

“The battery management system got smarter, this is something you could implement but you would never reach the exact same figures of the new Taycan by just updating the old one,” he said.
“But it will still see an improvement.
“This is something we are discussing at the moment.”

The 2024 Taycan’s battery thermal management is improved with peak 320kW charging speeds possible at 15 degrees Celsius that can be sustained for a longer period, up from the old car’s 270kW peak at 35 degrees.
This allows for a 10-80 per cent recharge in 18 minutes, down from 21.5 minutes, according to Porsche.

If they go with this it will be just amazing especially that the PB+ fitted on the J1.2 is even smaller than the one in the J1.1, so extra charging speed will have a great impact on the 10%-80% charging time.

Another update possible for the old Taycan is the implementation of the new charging screen in the digital instrument cluster that displays the battery’s current charge level, temperature, and maximum charging potential.

However, Mienkotter was quick to highlight that these updates are not confirmed to come to the old Taycan, but something Porsche is exploring.

For this one he seems more precautious. But for sure it will be great if they do it.

My very personal opinion, others might disagree: I do think that Porsche can create the exception about EV depreciation with the Taycan because the car is amazing in terms of looks and handling and I don't expect it to become obsolete any time soon on that front. It just gives you the smile both when you look at it and when you drive it. The problem will be the tech (mainly battery evolution). For me Porsche can probably create the exception if they do the following:

- They do what they are currently considering above (Thermal management upgrade + New tech screen upgrades)
- AND create a surprise by announcing that they are committed to propose a battery upgrade to a newer generation in a few years (for both J1.1 and J1.2): semi solid or solid or whatever the tech will bring in 5/6 years. Obviously this is a huge risk as you cannot predict the future but if they do that, as a customer: if you don't have a Taycan than you will be more confident buying a used one (which creates demand) or if you have one you will probably stick to it (less offer). Higher demand + Less Offer = better depreciation

Now the truth to be said, even if they do none of the above I will be keeping mine as I just love the car and don't see what I can buy else (for now).

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[Jasper4S]

I hope it will cost as much as your nickname

 

[r553]

We did get a thermal management update a few months ago called WPS9 in US.

 

[GreenHornet]

I guess they don't have a choice at this point. The current sales of the J1.2 Taycan is very low and just leaving the J1.1 Taycan owners in the dirt is not a good look for a premium company. For the ICE cars it's a bit different since they are not that software dependent.

But I am not holding my breath. Porsche is known for not looking backwards. At least not for free...

 

[Sly_North]

If they go with this it will be just amazing especially that the PB+ fitted on the J1 is even smaller than the one in the J1, so extra charging speed will have a great impact on the 10%-80% charging time.

Salut! I doubt it would give much to the J1.1.
The early J1 up to 2020 and the 2021 have different battery modules (9J1.915.592.C vs 9J1.915.592.G). And the new J1.2 battery pack is made of another newer nicer more efficient battery element. From past new articles, the J1.2 has a new battery chemistry that allow fast charging at a larger range of temperature.
We won't get the full advantage of those without replacing the whole battery pack (and controllers? Chargers? etc.).
The upgrade would be very costly.

AND create a surprise by announcing that they are committed to propose a battery upgrade to a newer generation in a few years (for both J1 and J1.2): semi solid or solid or whatever the tech will bring in 5/6 years.

I would love that, but I'm guessing it would cost tens of k$

 

[freeforall]

We did get a thermal management update a few months ago called WPS9 in US.

That’s different. It was to improve this
“Optimized software is available for the thermal management (TME) control unit to increase the robustness of the electric passenger compartment heater.”

What they are referring to in the article will potentially allow a higher charging speed (above the current 270kwh) and maybe in a wider temperature range. They are saying that it will not be as good as the J1.2 but it will provide improvements.

 

[freeforall]

I would love that, but I'm guessing it would cost tens of k$

Salut à toi et à la suisse!
Yes it probably will. But we don’t know how the battery prices will evolve.
It could be worth it when you have a car that you want to keep beyond 8 years because you like it and you believe it will represent something one day. Think about it as rebuilding an engine for an old ICE car.

 

[Sly_North]

It could be worth it when you have a car that you want to keep beyond 8 years ...

Oh absolutely. My hopes are more that private garages will build the expertise and do a better job at a better price.

 

[whitex]

If Porsche only had working OTA updates, they could just deploy it to all older cars like Tesla has been doing for years. Such improvements are good for customers, good for resale value and therefore new car demand, and good for Tesla learning, as they collect detailed telemetry from those cars so they can see if the deployed changed did or did not make a difference, and what it was.

 

[Murph7355]

If Porsche only had working OTA updates, they could just deploy it to all older cars like Tesla has been doing for years. Such improvements are good for customers, good for resale value and therefore new car demand, and good for Tesla learning, as they collect detailed telemetry from those cars so they can see if the deployed changed did or did not make a difference, and what it was.

Exactly.

But that sort of thinking seems alien to Porsche, sadly.

 

[whitex]

Exactly.

But that sort of thinking seems alien to Porsche, sadly.

I wish I new the inside story. Porsche had great plans to OTA Taycans. they even put in dedicated ECU with multi core ARM SoC and a bunch external RAM and EMMC flash storage. It had bus connections to other ECUs to update them. Note that BMS (referred as BMC below) was on the list of ECU's Porsche was planning to be able to OTA. After the initial fanfare, Porsche suddenly went radio silent on the topic. I'm not even sure there is an OTA ECU in the latest Taycans, they might have been dropped even before the refresh as I saw some later documentation which seemed to be missing any mention of the OTA ECU. I wonder if this had to do with the ouster of the VW CEO, perhaps he was forcing OTA on all VW businesses, as he was a Tesla fan, then once he was gone, VW wiped OTA from their roadmaps as "evil Elon idea". Either that, or they just couldn't do it - too difficult for VWAG engineering (having worked on OTA solutions, I can tell you that it definitely is not easy, it just looks easy if done properly).

Edit: It seems Porsche has been slowly enabling the OTA module over the years. The most recent mostly successfully deployment of ARB6/7 OTA campaign, which was originally supposed to be a shop campaign, shows that while it took them years, they are making progress.

This was Porsche plan in 2020:

 

[Brombaer1971]

My take

Don‘t talk the talk, walk the walk. For such a high premium car (and experimental EV platform) it just makes sense for owner AND Porsche. The last new J1 Cars are less than a year old.

 

[chun]

All of these would have to be OTA updates; its why he is confirming nothing, because porsche droped the idea of OTA. Why? The CEO is either still onnly capable to use cable phones only, and doesn't have contact with the world since 20 years; or they are just incapable of having a proper server stack.

What he is talking about is thermal managment of the battery improvments, via software, to be updated. Would have to be at the dealer, since as mentioned, they droped OTA. The dealers won't be happy to do it... It won't allow faster charging speeds for sure, chemistry limits and covertor limits are still there. It would allow for a better charging curve tho.

Same for UI changes, would have to be at the dealer, since they droped OTA...

They can do it, it's just a big monetary commitment, since they were absolute morons and dropped OTA. I hope they do it

 

[GreenHornet]

To be fair to Porsche they do have proper OTA, just not on the Taycan. The Macan has proper OTA.

The Taycan uses the same plattform that the e-tron SUV uses, and that was developed way back. They have done some development on it, but the fundamentals are the same.

 

[Redhot2474]

Hi all

I stumbled into this article relaying statements from Mayk Mienkotter (Porsche spokesperson for Taycan) to Australian media about the fact Porsche is considering to retrofit improvement from J1.2 to J1

https://www.drive.com.au/news/porsche-taycan-owners-could-score-upgrades/

Some interesting extracts:



If they go with this it will be just amazing especially that the PB+ fitted on the J1 is even smaller than the one in the J1, so extra charging speed will have a great impact on the 10%-80% charging time.



For this one he seems more precautious. But for sure it will be great if they do it.

My very personal opinion, others might disagree: I do think that Porsche can create the exception about EV depreciation with the Taycan because the car is amazing in terms of looks and handling and I don't expect it to become obsolete any time soon on that front. It just gives you the smile both when you look at it and when you drive it. The problem will be the tech (mainly battery evolution). For me Porsche can probably create the exception if they do the following:

- They do what they are currently considering above (Thermal management upgrade + New tech screen upgrades)
- AND create a surprise by announcing that they are committed to propose a battery upgrade to a newer generation in a few years (for both J1 and J1.2): semi solid or solid or whatever the tech will bring in 5/6 years. Obviously this is a huge risk as you cannot predict the future but if they do that, as a customer: if you don't have a Taycan than you will be more confident buying a used one (which creates demand) or if you have one you will probably stick to it (less offer). Higher demand + Less Offer = better depreciation

Now the truth to be said, even if they do none of the above I will be keeping mine as I just love the car and don't see what I can buy else (for now).

I was just thinking about Porsche having a plan for upgrades to older models as it would mitigate the depreciation on these vehicles - there’s simply no sustainability with Taycans if the depreciation curves continue to be this steep , throw us a bone and we’ll continue to be loyal customers

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