New HV Battery to be installed in my Taycan -- will it be a new or rebuilt battery?

[Scandinavian]

For anyone interested in this red circle of death/battery replacement story...an update.

Porsche shipped from Europe to my Toronto, Canada Porsche dealer a brand new 93kwh battery to be installed in my '20 Taycan 4s. It has now been installed and the car is going through some final programming/checks before being returned to me.

I got a brief education from the service tech dealing with my car about battery issues. Apparently PAG is now (or has been for a while) approaching battery issues in gen 1 Taycans on the basis of model year. I was told that MY2020 (first version of the car) will get a brand new battery if the original battery has issues. For MY2021-2024, battery issues are solved by replacing individual battery cells which have problems. I understand that PAG evolved battery design after MY2020 for the later generation 1 Taycans.

That said, now that I have a new battery pack, any future issues would be resolved at the individual cell level.

The tech explained that it is an arduous process to deal with battery cells and requires the disruption of the sealed battery by removing rivets and sealant with created a fully protected environment. Resealing it requires new larger rivets and a sealing process that must be completed within a short time frame to be effective. He said the process requires a minimum of 35 hours of tech time. Ouch if not under warranty.

From the resale market perspective (and not sure that the tech was right), he said that original MY2020 Taycans were somewhat more desirable because of the eligibility for a full battery replacement.

Sorry for the run-on story. I found it really interesting. My layperson's sense, with zero engineering knowledge, the cumbersome battery design makes servicing a huge and costly challenge.

Yes that is interesting to hear. Seems Porsche have updated their recommendations for the MY2020. My battery failed in September 2023 and at that stage I got two modules out of the 33 replaced. And yes it was quite some job to do as you stated.

In a way I hope that I will see further detoriation for some of my other cells (some are showing some signs of lower voltage) and get a new battery. Wish they had done that before.

All the battery work was however covered by the 8 year battery warranty for me.

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[r553]

Yes that is interesting to hear. Seems Porsche have updated their recommendations for the MY2020. My battery failed in September 2023 and at that stage I got two modules out of the 33 replaced. And yes it was quite some job to do as you stated.

In a way I hope that I will see further detoriation for some of my other cells (some are showing some signs of lower voltage) and get a new battery. Wish they had done that before.

All the battery work was however covered by the 8 year battery warranty for me.

I would check the part number of the "new" battery if it has EX in it is a remanufactured battery like I got in my 2020 4 S.

 

[Fish Fingers]

For anyone interested in this red circle of death/battery replacement story...an update.

Porsche shipped from Europe to my Toronto, Canada Porsche dealer a brand new 93kwh battery to be installed in my '20 Taycan 4s. It has now been installed and the car is going through some final programming/checks before being returned to me.

I got a brief education from the service tech dealing with my car about battery issues. Apparently PAG is now (or has been for a while) approaching battery issues in gen 1 Taycans on the basis of model year. I was told that MY2020 (first version of the car) will get a brand new battery if the original battery has issues. For MY2021-2024, battery issues are solved by replacing individual battery cells which have problems. I understand that PAG evolved battery design after MY2020 for the later generation 1 Taycans.

That said, now that I have a new battery pack, any future issues would be resolved at the individual cell level.

The tech explained that it is an arduous process to deal with battery cells and requires the disruption of the sealed battery by removing rivets and sealant with created a fully protected environment. Resealing it requires new larger rivets and a sealing process that must be completed within a short time frame to be effective. He said the process requires a minimum of 35 hours of tech time. Ouch if not under warranty.

From the resale market perspective (and not sure that the tech was right), he said that original MY2020 Taycans were somewhat more desirable because of the eligibility for a full battery replacement.

Sorry for the run-on story. I found it really interesting. My layperson's sense, with zero engineering knowledge, the cumbersome battery design makes servicing a huge and costly challenge.

Point of interest there..... it takes a full working week (min 35 hrs) just to replace faulty battery cells.

 

[FrostDrive]

Yes that is interesting to hear. Seems Porsche have updated their recommendations for the MY2020. My battery failed in September 2023 and at that stage I got two modules out of the 33 replaced. And yes it was quite some job to do as you stated.

In a way I hope that I will see further detoriation for some of my other cells (some are showing some signs of lower voltage) and get a new battery. Wish they had done that before.

All the battery work was however covered by the 8 year battery warranty for me.

It can be that somewhere under 2020 they updated battery revision. Therefore late 2020 can have newer upgradable batteries. When was your car produced?

 

[ejcintr]

For anyone interested in this red circle of death/battery replacement story...an update.

Porsche shipped from Europe to my Toronto, Canada Porsche dealer a brand new 93kwh battery to be installed in my '20 Taycan 4s. It has now been installed and the car is going through some final programming/checks before being returned to me.

I got a brief education from the service tech dealing with my car about battery issues. Apparently PAG is now (or has been for a while) approaching battery issues in gen 1 Taycans on the basis of model year. I was told that MY2020 (first version of the car) will get a brand new battery if the original battery has issues. For MY2021-2024, battery issues are solved by replacing individual battery cells which have problems. I understand that PAG evolved battery design after MY2020 for the later generation 1 Taycans.

That said, now that I have a new battery pack, any future issues would be resolved at the individual cell level.

The tech explained that it is an arduous process to deal with battery cells and requires the disruption of the sealed battery by removing rivets and sealant with created a fully protected environment. Resealing it requires new larger rivets and a sealing process that must be completed within a short time frame to be effective. He said the process requires a minimum of 35 hours of tech time. Ouch if not under warranty.

From the resale market perspective (and not sure that the tech was right), he said that original MY2020 Taycans were somewhat more desirable because of the eligibility for a full battery replacement.

Sorry for the run-on story. I found it really interesting. My layperson's sense, with zero engineering knowledge, the cumbersome battery design makes servicing a huge and costly challenge.

I don't understand the economics here- 35 hours * labor cost, customer dissastifaction, opportunity cost loss as the dealer could have the tech working on other deals, the cost necessary to train the technicians on repairing the battery, etc... vs sourcing new batteries (what is the price of a brand new battery 20K ? So Porsches cost has got to be half that anyone know?)... seems it would be easier to get new manufactured batteries and replace them... sure my math is wrong as they would do this if it was less costly to them.

 

[tophamn]

I don't understand the economics here- 35 hours * labor cost, customer dissastifaction, opportunity cost loss as the dealer could have the tech working on other deals, the cost necessary to train the technicians on repairing the battery, etc... vs sourcing new batteries (what is the price of a brand new battery 20K ? So Porsches cost has got to be half that anyone know?)... seems it would be easier to get new manufactured batteries and replace them... sure my math is wrong as they would do this if it was less costly to them.

You can bet Porsche is passing some or all of the cost to the battery cell manufaturer (LG?).

 

[ejcintr]

You can bet Porsche is passing some or all of the cost to the battery cell manufaturer (LG?).

Good point- makes it even more surprising that they would choose this route- when faced with a similar circumstance at a company I worked at... we shipped out new product to a few customers - got the returned "defective" product- shipped it to a location where it was refurbished and then shipped it out for replacement to subsequent customers - the refurbishment was done at a contract manufacturer (assume LG) where it could be done with trained technicians in a much more timely and cost effective way.. as they (LG) started to build out the inventory of refurbished/rebuilt batteries they could then ship out batteries in a staggered replacement schedule.. since there is 'maybe' +40k batteries that need to be replaced... this would simplify the replacement at the dealers (6-8 hours to replace a battery?) and could provide a quicker remedy to their customers.

 

[Briguy]

I would check the part number of the "new" battery if it has EX in it is a remanufactured battery like I got in my 2020 4 S.

I understand your point. I did not get the part number but i did specifically ask the service manager and the tech that question about remanufactured vs new. I was told that it was brand new.

 

[Briguy]

Good point- makes it even more surprising that they would choose this route- when faced with a similar circumstance at a company I worked at... we shipped out new product to a few customers - got the returned "defective" product- shipped it to a location where it was refurbished and then shipped it out for replacement to subsequent customers - the refurbishment was done at a contract manufacturer (assume LG) where it could be done with trained technicians in a much more timely and cost effective way.. as they (LG) started to build out the inventory of refurbished/rebuilt batteries they could then ship out batteries in a staggered replacement schedule.. since there is 'maybe' +40k batteries that need to be replaced... this would simplify the replacement at the dealers (6-8 hours to replace a battery?) and could provide a quicker remedy to their customers.

Intuitively, I think that there must be a recycling solution on the used battery. I enquired what was to become of my Taycan’s defective battery. The dealer did not know but said that they are shipping it to a PAG designated location. When the car “died” the battery had a 85% SOC. It has to be carefully managed I would expect.

 

[Briguy]

I don't understand the economics here- 35 hours * labor cost, customer dissastifaction, opportunity cost loss as the dealer could have the tech working on other deals, the cost necessary to train the technicians on repairing the battery, etc... vs sourcing new batteries (what is the price of a brand new battery 20K ? So Porsches cost has got to be half that anyone know?)... seems it would be easier to get new manufactured batteries and replace them... sure my math is wrong as they would do this if it was less costly to them.

Those factors you raise which might cause PAG to handle the issue differently make sense to me. Add to that—not all dealers are equipped to tear down and replace individual cells (vs replacing the entire battery pack—which all dealers can do). BUT the dealers are happy to work with any process as the labor hours are revenue to their bottom line.

 

[Briguy]

It can be that somewhere under 2020 they updated battery revision. Therefore late 2020 can have newer upgradable batteries. When was your car produced?

Not sure, but I estimate April ‘20 as i took delivery August ‘20

 

[Briguy]

Yes that is interesting to hear. Seems Porsche have updated their recommendations for the MY2020. My battery failed in September 2023 and at that stage I got two modules out of the 33 replaced. And yes it was quite some job to do as you stated.

In a way I hope that I will see further detoriation for some of my other cells (some are showing some signs of lower voltage) and get a new battery. Wish they had done that before.

All the battery work was however covered by the 8 year battery warranty for me.

Well you might find this other point interesting. When i was discussing individual cell replacement, the tech explained that the battery compartment can only be opened and resealed a total of three times. that is apparently because each time they open and resealed the compartment the rivets used must be slightly larger than the prior set used. By the time they get to the third closure they have used the largest rivets that can be effectively used.

 

[Scandinavian]

Well you might find this other point interesting. When i was discussing individual cell replacement, the tech explained that the battery compartment can only be opened and resealed a total of three times. that is apparently because each time they open and resealed the compartment the rivets used must be slightly larger than the prior set used. By the time they get to the third closure they have used the largest rivets that can be effectively used.

Thanks that is another interesting information.

 

[Scandinavian]

It can be that somewhere under 2020 they updated battery revision. Therefore late 2020 can have newer upgradable batteries. When was your car produced?

My car was produced late 2019 or very early 2020. It was at the dealer in late January 2020. If I understood my service guy correctly it was in the first batch of Turbo’s to be delivered to France. I think a lot of my problems has been related to the absolute first production batch of different electronics. I only have one mechanical/assembly problem over the year. Some left off fasteners connecting the ventilation airflow securely to the car’s interior. All other issues have been electronic or Software issues

 

[Scandinavian]

Those factors you raise which might cause PAG to handle the issue differently make sense to me. Add to that—not all dealers are equipped to tear down and replace individual cells (vs replacing the entire battery pack—which all dealers can do). BUT the dealers are happy to work with any process as the labor hours are revenue to their bottom line.

From what I have been told there are only two facilities in France that do the repair on module level on the batteries. And in Stockholm there was only one place that did the same. Not sure if there were any more in Sweden. The reason given was that it Requires quite a lot of space to,perform plus of course very specialised trained personnel. So an exchange model would make a lot of sense.

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