Tuning - Anyone in Canada tried out any of the tunes available (MapEV/Redfish)

[prj]

Is that something that can change with a software update or is that something that would have to be done from the start of new generation manufacturing?

In theory everything is possible.
In practice let's get back to the point that Porsche does not void the warranty currently on the cars where they KNOW the ASG is tuned.
The downside of them KNOWING is that they can flip a switch at any point.
For the swapped ASG since there is no cryptographic hash failure on the server, they essentially don't know it's tuned.

I am sure if you had a tuned inverter or BMS then it would be a completely different response, as then the engine control is considered modified and warranty should be void.

I would assume the answer, as to most things, would be money. Porsche and most car manufacturers would probably prefer for you to pay for something, especially if they can prove you altered your vehicle in a way that gave you Turbo S power when you only payed for 4 or 4s performance…

I’m for tuning and I really want this tune. I’m just doing my research as I’m sure like everyone else wants to keep our warranties intact now and in the foreseeable future.

Money is definitely not it, because it would cost much more to develop some special logic specifically for the Taycan to track modifications compared to the 0.1% of cars in the world that are tuned.
Though I'm not sure exactly what that would look like - "we're going to deny your warranty, because more current was drawn from the battery than we expected, although it was within the BMS safety parameters and we fit the same exact battery in the Turbo S"? Wouldn't really go over well.

That said, what exactly does the tune damage, can you explain? Where Porsche loses money from it? The motors run at their rated spec, the battery runs at the rated spec.
Nobody is defrauding Porsche out of money because they have the tune, as no failures are due to the tune. This is very different from ICE cars where tuning the engine you're putting it out of the spec, and are running more boost and so on, which compromises the thermal envelope.

So your entire argument is - Porsche wants to spend a huge amount of money on RnD and develop a special tracking system after the car has been out for 6 years just to screw you over. Because they take so much pleasure in screwing you over that they'd PAY to do it.

If you really believe that to be the case - stay away from any modifications: aftermarket wheels, lowering links, non-Porsche approved tyres, don't fit an aftermarket dashcam or radar detector and so on.
As all that carries exactly the same "risk".

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[baccaroatie540]

In theory everything is possible.
In practice let's get back to the point that Porsche does not void the warranty currently on the cars where they KNOW the ASG is tuned.
The downside of them KNOWING is that they can flip a switch at any point.
For the swapped ASG since there is no cryptographic hash failure on the server, they essentially don't know it's tuned.



Money is definitely not it, because it would cost much more to develop some special logic specifically for the Taycan to track modifications compared to the 0.1% of cars in the world that are tuned.

That said, what exactly does the tune damage, can you explain? Where Porsche loses money from it? The motors run at their rated spec, the battery runs at the rated spec.
Nobody is defrauding Porsche out of money because they have the tune, as no failures are due to the tune. This is very different from ICE cars where tuning the engine you're putting it out of the spec, and are running more boost and so on, which compromises the thermal envelope.

So your entire argument is - Porsche wants to spend a huge amount of money on RnD and develop a special tracking system after the car has been out for 6 years just to screw you over. Because they take so much pleasure in screwing you over that they'd PAY to do it.

If you really believe that to be the case - stay away from any modifications: aftermarket wheels, lowering links, non-Porsche approved tyres and so on.
As all that carries exactly the same "risk".

Point taken, thank you for that and for your responses! I am for tuning, and would really love this in my car. I’m just a cautious individual playing devils advocate and trying to understand how this works without Porsche caring about it or them knowing you swap an ASG in and out regularly.

I trust you are a professional but I also know you make or work for the tuning company? It would be amazing to hear from someone on the Porsche tech side that validates they have no way of knowing you swap the ASG back and forth - but I guess that is indirectly happening if they are approving warranty claims even with the known tunes…

 

[baccaroatie540]

If you're in Toronto, I could let you try on my 21 RS Spiders. I'm actually curious about how much range I'd gain back with 20's

I love my ride, but I'm biased towards harder, sportier. I also drove a 4S and found it too smooooooth, didn't feel aggressive, which I get out of the GTS, and why I chose it over a Turbo, which I also found a bit softer - I also have the 18 way seats, looking for a sports car feel

Thanks for the offer, would be nice to see the difference for sure! Feel free to send me a DM

I agree, I too like the sports car feel in the practicality of a wagon/sedan. If money wasn’t a factor I would definitely go with the GTS as I feel it’s the perfect sweet spot. And that’s across all of the Porsche lines.
For now the CT4 is amazing for me stock and didn’t break the bank, but if I can get turbo s performance unlocked it would be even better! Just don’t know if its worth risking warranty over and loosing peace of mind… decisions, decisions!!

 

[prj]

Point taken, thank you for that and for your responses! I am for tuning, and would really love this in my car. I’m just a cautious individual playing devils advocate and trying to understand how this works without Porsche caring about it or them knowing you swap an ASG in and out regularly.

I trust you are a professional but I also know you make or work for the tuning company? It would be amazing to hear from someone on the Porsche tech side that validates they have no way of knowing you swap the ASG back and forth - but I guess that is indirectly happening if they are approving warranty claims even with the known tunes…

You will never ever hear anything from Porsche on the matter. The only reason I can tell you anything about it, is because I have certain contact channels with a couple engineers working there.
Nobody outside HQ (and a few of us with connections) knows how the warranty check process works, it's "top secret". All the dealer knows is they have to submit a VAL before warranty is approved, they don't know what's in the VAL or how the algorithm works that accepts or rejects the warranty claims (they're not done manually unless something is out of the ordinary, e.g. you blow the engine on a brand new Audi RS6/911/Panamera).

But on the record everyone will tell you that any modification voids the warranty on the car, end of story.
That does not only include a different ASG, but as I listed before - the incorrect tyres or rims, lowering links, tinting the lights, fitting an aftermarket dash camera, or really any kind of modification you can think of.
Certainly Porsche's warranty wording is pretty much that. Of course it would never hold up in court.

E.g. when you are submitting a warranty claim for some unusual issue, Porsche additionally requires a video and photos that show the issue and also show the VIN plate of the car in the video. If they see in the photos that you have e.g. spacers or lowering links installed on the car they can deny your suspension warranty and so on.

And then you can also go the same way with forensics e.g. it's possible to see that the nuts were undone when fitting the links or that there is a marked pattern on the wheel hub from the spacer.
Would they go through that if it would help solve a world leader being murdered? Probably. But just to deny the warranty on e.g. a bushing? Probably not.

 

[baccaroatie540]

But on the record everyone will tell you that any modification voids the warranty on the car, end of story.
That does not only include a different ASG, but as I listed before - the incorrect tyres or rims, lowering links, tinting the lights, fitting an aftermarket dash camera, or really any kind of modification you can think of.

Haha yes, that right - and it’s the reason I haven’t installed spacers as badly as I’d like to… I can’t be bothered to go to the tire shop every time I need to take my car in for a service.

 

[baccaroatie540]

You will never ever hear anything from Porsche on the matter. The only reason I can tell you anything about it, is because I have certain contact channels with a couple engineers working there.
Nobody outside HQ (and a few of us with connections) knows how the warranty check process works, it's "top secret". All the dealer knows is they have to submit a VAL before warranty is approved, they don't know what's in the VAL or how the algorithm works that accepts or rejects the warranty claims (they're not done manually unless something is out of the ordinary, e.g. you blow the engine on a brand new Audi RS6/911/Panamera).

But on the record everyone will tell you that any modification voids the warranty on the car, end of story.
That does not only include a different ASG, but as I listed before - the incorrect tyres or rims, lowering links, tinting the lights, fitting an aftermarket dash camera, or really any kind of modification you can think of.
Certainly Porsche's warranty wording is pretty much that. Of course it would never hold up in court.

E.g. when you are submitting a warranty claim for some unusual issue, Porsche additionally requires a video and photos that show the issue and also show the VIN plate of the car in the video. If they see in the photos that you have e.g. spacers or lowering links installed on the car they can deny your suspension warranty and so on.

And then you can also go the same way with forensics e.g. it's possible to see that the nuts were undone when fitting the links or that there is a marked pattern on the wheel hub from the spacer.
Would they go through that if it would help solve a world leader being murdered? Probably. But just to deny the warranty on e.g. a bushing? Probably not.

I see the online tutorial about opening the rear door and locking the car to put it into “sleep mode”. Is this a vital step that ensures the swapping of the ASG goes undetected or simply a precautionary step? What is the reason for it?

 

[Mr.Smith]

Is that something that can change with a software update or is that something that would have to be done from the start of new generation manufacturing?

Anything is possible, it's just not probable in this case.

The Diesel forensics that was posted was a global mandate that this level of investigation was included.
The chances of VAG/PAG going to extreme lengths to see if anyone swapped out an ASG for their low volume EVs is not very probable

 

[chun]

Guys, porsche barely bothered to check their batteries after they started catching fire because they manufactured them badly. They will never check for any tuning

And porsche can't be arsed to release already developed updates to older cars. They won't develop or release anything new to check warranty things

 

[prj]

I see the online tutorial about opening the rear door and locking the car to put it into “sleep mode”. Is this a vital step that ensures the swapping of the ASG goes undetected or simply a precautionary step? What is the reason for it?

You can yank the controller with the power on and nothing happens, but you do get a LOT of errors in the car then.
This has nothing to do with any "detection" period.

Detection = which controller is fitted at the moment they submit a warranty claim, simple as that...

 

[Alan B]

Haha yes, that right - and it’s the reason I haven’t installed spacers as badly as I’d like to… I can’t be bothered to go to the tire shop every time I need to take my car in for a service.

I'm not a race car driver or instructor - just an avid car enthusiast and lover of everything technical. After doing a lot of research, I recently added the MAPEV tune to my CT 4 and can confirm there's no possible way suspension tuning or tire swaps, etc. would provide anything remotely close to the change I've experienced in acceleration, response, etc. from the tune. Literally every person who's been in the tuned ride has reacted with some version of "...holy ****...." while grinning from ear to ear. It's worth noting my CT4 to CT4-Tuned is ideal for before and after differential. I found the swap to be fairly easy though I do love to fix and work on stuff. I hope this gives you a user perspective.

 

[RED!]

I'm not a race car driver or instructor - just an avid car enthusiast and lover of everything technical. After doing a lot of research, I recently added the MAPEV tune to my CT 4 and can confirm there's no possible way suspension tuning or tire swaps, etc. would provide anything remotely close to the change I've experienced in acceleration, response, etc. from the tune. Literally every person who's been in the tuned ride has reacted with some version of "...holy ****...." while grinning from ear to ear. It's worth noting my CT4 to CT4-Tuned is ideal for before and after differential. I found the swap to be fairly easy though I do love to fix and work on stuff. I hope this gives you a user perspective.

Although lighter wheels will 100% improve throttle response, I was never suggesting that suspension changes would change the way the car accelerates, what I was suggesting is that you notice ride all the time, whereas on city streets making your car accelerate faster that 4 seconds isn’t necessarily an improvement in “fun to drive” vs making it feel more fun to weave through traffic in.

Ultimately, it’s your car and your money, please yourself. What I have learned in years of modding cars and watching others do it- cognitive dissonance generally causes any money spent to “feel right” even if it wasn’t the best money spent.

 

[69Mach390]

I would assume the answer, as to most things, would be money. Porsche and most car manufacturers would probably prefer for you to pay for something, especially if they can prove you altered your vehicle in a way that gave you Turbo S power when you only payed for 4 or 4s performance…

I’m for tuning and I really want this tune. I’m just doing my research as I’m sure like everyone else wants to keep our warranties intact now and in the foreseeable future.

Sure, they could in theory.

In reality? The juice likely isn’t worth the squeeze.

And while the laws may be different in Canada, they’d have to defend the decision everywhere.

And by saying “the extra power of the tune broke your car,” they would have to admit that the Turbo S has too much power from the factory. And that’s a hard argument to make.

Most importantly though isn’t the question of if “they can” deny a warranty claim, the important question is “have they?”

And the answer to that is “no.”

 

[69Mach390]

Although lighter wheels will 100% improve throttle response, I was never suggesting that suspension changes would change the way the car accelerates, what I was suggesting is that you notice ride all the time, whereas on city streets making your car accelerate faster that 4 seconds isn’t necessarily an improvement in “fun to drive” vs making it feel more fun to weave through traffic in.

Ultimately, it’s your car and your money, please yourself. What I have learned in years of modding cars and watching others do it- cognitive dissonance generally causes any money spent to “feel right” even if it wasn’t the best money spent.

Are you honestly suggesting that adding 200-400hp to your car with zero reduction in drivability requires some sort of cognitive dissonance???

Clearly you haven’t driven a Taycan with and without this tune if you think the only difference in “fun to drive” happens at full throttle.

Even if you never floor your car, the part throttle response is worth it by itself.

For sure on a race track, suspension will improve the fun faster.

But on the street? It’s significantly easier to push a car to the “limit” of acceleration than in handling. Safer too. You can floor it (if only for a few seconds) almost anywhere. But push the car to handling limits? Hard to find a good place to do that on the streets in most places.

 

[RED!]

Are you honestly suggesting that adding 200-400hp to your car with zero reduction in drivability requires some sort of cognitive dissonance???

Clearly you haven’t driven a Taycan with and without this tune if you think the only difference in “fun to drive” happens at full throttle.

Even if you never floor your car, the part throttle response is worth it by itself.

For sure on a race track, suspension will improve the fun faster.

But on the street? It’s significantly easier to push a car to the “limit” of acceleration than in handling. Safer too. You can floor it (if only for a few seconds) almost anywhere. But push the car to handling limits? Hard to find a good place to do that on the streets in most places.

Not what I’m saying at all. I’m saying any improvement feels like a great improvement if it’s what you were planning on in the first place - it just doesn’t necessarily mean that the improvement got you the best result in performance.

From my point of view, (I drove a 4s, turbo and then bought a GTS), the acceleration in a straight line was great on all the cars. At no time driving in the city was I “flat” on the throttle, so it’s a question of how hard and how quickly you press it. On the other hand, the reason I want fast throttle response is to weave through traffic, which is MY definition of fun, and why I want sportscar performance (vs an SUV). What makes the weaving feel good is that the car handles it with good grip, minimum body roll, and overall a sense of confidence.

Of course, (I hope) this is a good natured discussion/argument and beauty is in the eyes of the beholder and relates to your driving style. Note: I have a 300hp NSX which I feel not only has suitable power but is a knife through traffic butter and the most fun car I’ve ever driven by miles. And I’ve driven and owned a lot of special interest cars. So my bias is towards handling vs power.

 

[Leccy61]

You make fair points @RED! but for me a stock CT4 already has great handling with lovely ride quality, but upgrading its power to give it great performance makes it great overall. With a Turbo or GTS I’d leave it alone!

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