GTS Ride Quality with or without Active Ride

[freinando]

Interesting discussion here between @prj and @RED!.

I haven’t personally driven a car with PAR, so this is based on what I’ve read and seen. From this perspective, it’s clear that a car with PAR should give better traction, allow for higher cornering speed, and as a result produce better lap times.

That said, it also seems like it would fundamentally change how a driver interprets feedback from the car. In a conventional setup, you rely a lot on cues like body roll, squat, and dive to sense weight transfer and approaching limits. A well-balanced car gives you progressive signals, so you can anticipate and correct before things get out of hand. With PAR actively minimizing those motions, I wonder what feedback remains for the driver so they know that they’re getting close to the limit. Maybe physics do its thing where it starts overpowering PAR and you start getting more roll etc, and it indeed becomes progressive, or, grip gives up all of a sudden without you being able to anticipate it. I’m curious.

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[W1NGE]

Some quick feedback - more about the steering than the Active Ride (sorry).

I have now been able to drive two J1.2 GTS cars with and without Active Ride.

Both cars had:-

• Rear-axle Steering
• Torque Vectoring

They differed in the tyres:-

Active Ride GTS:-
• Dynamic Package with Pirelli P Zero R Elect tyres;
• Amazing sharp steering.

Standard GTS:-
• Summer tyres (Goodyear Eagle F1 NF1).
• Much-less sharp; not so different to a CT 4S with same tyres IMHO.

At this stage I'm still unsure whether the amazingly-sharp steering of the Active Ride car is due to Active Ride itself, or to the very-firm sidewalls of the Pirelli P Zero R tyres (or both). I'd be keen to get feedback from other drivers exploring other tyre combos. Thanks!

Again, we're talking Gen-2 cars here

RAS and PTV+ are standard on J1.2 Taycans where previously only PTV+ was.

I had both on my J1.1 GTS and hard to see how it could be improved upon (better than my 4S with RAS and other variants without either of these optons).

PAR feels like a meh moment - not needed and has some undesirable side effects for passengers from what I've read.

 

[Mr.Smith]

Interesting discussion here between @prj and @RED!.

I haven’t personally driven a car with PAR, so this is based on what I’ve read and seen. From this perspective, it’s clear that a car with PAR should give better traction, allow for higher cornering speed, and as a result produce better lap times.

That said, it also seems like it would fundamentally change how a driver interprets feedback from the car. In a conventional setup, you rely a lot on cues like body roll, squat, and dive to sense weight transfer and approaching limits. A well-balanced car gives you progressive signals, so you can anticipate and correct before things get out of hand. With PAR actively minimizing those motions, I wonder what feedback remains for the driver so they know that they’re getting close to the limit. Maybe physics do its thing where it starts overpowering PAR and you start getting more roll etc, and it indeed becomes progressive, or, grip gives up all of a sudden without you being able to anticipate it. I’m curious.

It negates weight transfer effects on suspension, but you still feel the weight, especially in Sport Plus at higher speed.

 

[prj]

With PAR actively minimizing those motions, I wonder what feedback remains for the driver so they know that they’re getting close to the limit.

This is something that keeps being repeated on the forum, but it has absolutely nothing to do with reality.
How much your car leans or squats depends on the grip of your tires. How much it's leaning or squatting tells you absolutely nothing about the grip limit in any given situation. If you hit a low traction situation due to something being slippery on the road, it's not going to lean more before letting go or anything like that.

PAR feels like a meh moment - not needed and has some undesirable side effects for passengers from what I've read.

If reduced motion sickness is undesirable and you enjoy making your passengers motion sick, then maybe indeed.

ZF sMotion specificially reduces motion sickness. It has been scientifically tested to do so:


Trust the science, not the youtubers.

The only thing that can make you motion sick, is enabling the lean into corners in comfort mode. Well, just don't turn it on then! I certainly don't.

In the end - PAR is better all around. You either have the money for it, or you don't. If you don't, then downgrading it to make yourself feel better is an exercise in futility. This is not directed personally to anyone here.

 

[prj]

At this stage I'm still unsure whether the amazingly-sharp steering of the Active Ride car is due to Active Ride itself, or to the very-firm sidewalls of the Pirelli P Zero R tyres (or both). I'd be keen to get feedback from other drivers exploring other tyre combos. Thanks!

Again, we're talking Gen-2 cars here

It's due to the PAR. My J1.2 CT with PAR and 20" winter tyres feels sharper on turn in than my J1.1 Turbo S on 21" P Zeros with PDCC.

 

[dcp10]

It's due to the PAR. My J1.2 CT with PAR and 20" winter tyres feels sharper on turn in than my J1.1 Turbo S on 21" P Zeros with PDCC.

That's helpful - thanks! Especially since I have a chance to finalise (yet another) build tomorrow. The ongoing question: GTS with PAR or 4S with PAR…

 

[prj]

That's helpful - thanks! Especially since I have a chance to finalise (yet another) build tomorrow. The ongoing question: GTS with PAR or 4S with PAR…

Since you don't want any of the GTS stuff, like the Alcantara seats and so on, then IMO the 4S Black edition is the better choice for J1.2, as you can use the extra leftover money to option it better than the GTS.

The only exception is if you prefer the stiffer tuned suspension and 4S in sport plus mode is not stiff enough for your needs. Then you'd want the GTS.

 

[dcp10]

Since you don't want any of the GTS stuff, like the Alcantara seats and so on, then IMO the 4S Black edition is the better choice for J1.2, as you can use the extra leftover money to option it better than the GTS.

The only exception is if you prefer the stiffer tuned suspension and 4S in sport plus mode is not stiff enough for your needs. Then you'd want the GTS.

Thanks! That makes life much easier . The only problem now is that the Black Edition doesn't give me the Neodyme accents to go with the Club Leather . Yes, I know they're a bit "bling" but I need something to brighten up a dark interior. First-world problems!

 

[prj]

Thanks! That makes life much easier . The only problem now is that the Black Edition doesn't give me the Neodyme accents to go with the Club Leather . Yes, I know they're a bit "bling" but I need something to brighten up a dark interior. First-world problems!

You can still spec those no?

 

[W1NGE]

This is something that keeps being repeated on the forum, but it has absolutely nothing to do with reality.
How much your car leans or squats depends on the grip of your tires. How much it's leaning or squatting tells you absolutely nothing about the grip limit in any given situation. If you hit a low traction situation due to something being slippery on the road, it's not going to lean more before letting go or anything like that.



If reduced motion sickness is undesirable and you enjoy making your passengers motion sick, then maybe indeed.

ZF sMotion specificially reduces motion sickness. It has been scientifically tested to do so:


Trust the science, not the youtubers.

The only thing that can make you motion sick, is enabling the lean into corners in comfort mode. Well, just don't turn it on then! I certainly don't.

In the end - PAR is better all around. You either have the money for it, or you don't. If you don't, then downgrading it to make yourself feel better is an exercise in futility. This is not directed personally to anyone here.

Not reduced but increases potential for motion sickness.

 

[dcp10]

You can still spec those no?

Sadly not. With the "Black Edition", choosing the Club Leather means that you're stuck with the dark trim elements; you can't even choose the "Dark Silver" alternative - it's very restrictive.

Switching to the "Smooth Leather" then the "Dark Silver" becomes an option (bizarrely); but the "Neodyme" option doesn't appear in the configurator unless one goes for the regular (non-Black-Edition) car or GTS.

 

[dcp10]

Here's an illustration of the problem:-

1. GTS with "Basalt" club leather and Neodyme accents:-

2. Black Edition with same Club Leather; only dark accents:-

3. Black Edition with Smooth Leather; "Dark Silver" accents available as a zero-cost option:-

Not sure if one can retrofit the Neodyme into the "Black Edition"? Porsche clearly don't think this is appropriate, but it does brighten up a dark car (and no, I'm not a fan of the "Truffle" leather or any of the two-tone colour combinations; I wish we could have the Gen-1 light-coloured seats).

 

[prj]

Not reduced but increases potential for motion sickness.

According to whom? How was it tested?

According to the PhD scientist working with ZF on it, it reduces motion sickness. You can see some of the testing equipment in the video. What is your source?

This gets repeated here over and over with zero basis in reality.

 

[prj]

Not sure if one can retrofit the Neodyme into the "Black Edition"? Porsche clearly don't think this is appropriate, but it does brighten up a dark car (and no, I'm not a fan of the "Truffle" leather or any of the two-tone colour combinations; I wish we could have the Gen-1 light-coloured seats).

Okay, then choose just the 4S, not the black edition. Neodyme is available on that in the UK configurator.
Not sure how it works out price wise though, but give it a go.

 

[dcp10]

Not sure how it works out price wise though, but give it a go.

That certainly works, but it's an extra £6K …

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