Tesla Model S - the car that started it all…

[AutoX]

I'm a hater, and I'm gonna hate. But honestly will you buy a car from a company that has outright stated they don't want to be a car company?

Well, I did, and have convinced my parents who are die hard Lexus/Mercedes owners to buy the new Model Y. They absolutely love it, including FSD.. Keep in mind that they're in the 80's now.

Despite the doom and gloom, Tesla has increased their EV market share.

https://www.edmunds.com/electric-car/articles/percentage-of-electric-cars-in-us.html

The Model Y is the top selling EV, and 2nd best selling car overall.

I say they're doing something right despite their cars being "old and outdated."

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[69Mach390]

Well, I did, and have convinced my parents who are die hard Lexus/Mercedes owners to buy the new Model Y. They absolutely love it, including FSD.. Keep in mind that they're in the 80's now.

Despite the doom and gloom, Tesla has increased their EV market share.

https://www.edmunds.com/electric-car/articles/percentage-of-electric-cars-in-us.html

The Model Y is the top selling EV, and 2nd best selling car overall.

I say they're doing something right despite their cars being "old and outdated."

High sales and the “best” cars rarely go hand in hand.

They’re fast and cheap with good tech and extremely boring looks. Build quality ranged from terrible to now just ok. Same with reliability.

And despite what the video, fanboys and Musk say, they didn’t even come close to “starting it all.”

Many vehicles paved the way before. Musk is a good marketer and a very savvy investor. But due to his marketing skills, the average person would think that he invented the electric car and his cars actually have “autopilot” and/or can “full self drive.”

 

[Zcd1]

…And despite what the video (says), they didn’t even come close to “starting it all.”…

LOL.

There were literally *zero* high performance, long range luxury EVs prior to the Model S.

Now there are many, because the Model S showed that it was a viable, profitable market niche.

But thanks, at least, for commenting on the actual content of the video!

 

[AutoX]

High sales and the “best” cars rarely go hand in hand.

They’re fast and cheap with good tech and extremely boring looks. Build quality ranged from terrible to now just ok. Same with reliability.

And despite what the video, fanboys and Musk say, they didn’t even come close to “starting it all.”

Many vehicles paved the way before. Musk is a good marketer and a very savvy investor. But due to his marketing skills, the average person would think that he invented the electric car and his cars actually have “autopilot” and/or can “full self drive.”

It really depends on what criteria you're using for "best car." Of course a 500k Bentley is going to be better car than a 25k Civic. But the Civic is going to sell a lot more.

Cars that sell well tend to be good at what they do and are price right for their segment. i.e. the F150, Camry, Corolla, and yes Tesla Model Y and 3.

The Model 3, S and and to some extend Y are non offensive and have broad appeal. Cars that sell well tend to fit this description.

You're right, Musk/Tesla did not start it all, but he/Tesla did bring the EV to the masses and made EV desireable and practical (with increase range and also charging network). The Nissan and GM had EVs prior to Tesla, but they were too compromised. Elon didn't invent the Electric Car, he just brought it to the Masses. Just like Henry Ford, didn't even the automobile, but he mad it accessible. Give credit where it's due.

As far as autopilot/FSD is concern, I can say first hand that it's very good, and improving with every update. I have used autopilot extensively since 2020. Yes you need to pay attention, and not drift off, but it's better than Ford's blue cruise (which I also have extensive experience with).
As far as FSD, I can only speak from experience for the current version (14). It's still has some problems with finding the exit when in a parking structure, but otherwise it's excellent. My parents (in their 80's) can still drive, uses FSD extensively. It's very reliable and takes them to the store/church, around town. They feel competely at ease with it. Yes, they still have to pay attention, but so far after 10k miles, it has not done anything that would be considered dangerous. It really does driver better than most drivers I see on the road. It's not perfect, no system will ever be, but right now it's good enough that I trust it with my parents with the caveat that they pay attention and are ready to take over if needed.

 

[FlyingPoint]

I don't know how many folks here currently own or lease both a Taycan and Tesla (I do), but if one characterizes a Tesla as old and outdated, then the Taycan is

 

[F1Ruaraidh]

I still run both to this day. 150k miles in MS since new and 21 CT TS.

Model S is a great EV and the only one I will always take on a long trip. It is however a pretty flaky car even at a 2018MY. It's long in the tooth now but even new many car aspects were poor. However, all the EV stuff ie the hard bits back then JUST WORK.

The Taycan is the complete opposite - it's a great car but a completely flaky EV - failing charging systems, poor effy, poor batteries, illogical software, dreadful app, hopeless quality of basics, stupid charging setup, stupid preheat, idiot maps and now non-functioning satnav add to that Porsche hubris and post-sale arrogance makes a genuinely unpleasant experience. Fun to drive but despite being brought up on 930s and wanting a 964 turbo as long as I can remember, I'll never buy another Porsche.

Despite never having properly done a Model S Mk2 from the ground up ie 800V, 48V, new BiW etc, it's the ownership that counts.

Tesla customer service is still second to none and all aspects of real world ownership knock Porsche into a cocked hat.

oh but Christophorus...

 

[Leccy61]

Taycan ownership is character building

 

[BjörnfromHamburg]

I still run both to this day. 150k miles in MS since new and 21 CT TS.

Model S is a great EV and the only one I will always take on a long trip. It is however a pretty flaky car even at a 2018MY. It's long in the tooth now but even new many car aspects were poor. However, all the EV stuff ie the hard bits back then JUST WORK.

The Taycan is the complete opposite - it's a great car but a completely flaky EV - failing charging systems, poor effy, poor batteries, illogical software, dreadful app, hopeless quality of basics, stupid charging setup, stupid preheat, idiot maps and now non-functioning satnav add to that Porsche hubris and post-sale arrogance makes a genuinely unpleasant experience. Fun to drive but despite being brought up on 930s and wanting a 964 turbo as long as I can remember, I'll never buy another Porsche.

Despite never having properly done a Model S Mk2 from the ground up ie 800V, 48V, new BiW etc, it's the ownership that counts.

Tesla customer service is still second to none and all aspects of real world ownership knock Porsche into a cocked hat.

oh but Christophorus...

Exact the opposite here in Germany for me, concerning the Porsche service and after-sales experience.
I was fed-up with non-existent service by Tesla, being as arrogant as you describe your experience with Porsche.
The customer relation with my Porsche-shop contributed to my decision to having bought a 911T recently.

 

[Watchesandburgers]

OG Tesla Model S owner here. Mine was a 2013 Model S with the 60 KWh battery pack, so I speak from experience. In 2013, the car was nothing short of revolutionary. The large central touchscreen, configurable gauge cluster, central-computer-controlled vehicle with over the air updates were multiple generations ahead of legacy car manufacturers at the time, and still ahead in some areas to this day. The fact that they iterated and developed the car in real time instead of across a 5+ year "model year" cycle meant I got full UI updates and actual hardware updates along the way. When I sold my Model S in 2024 (replaced with my Taycan) I had Gen 3 door handles that were worlds better than the Gen 1 units noted in the video. The car was reliable, spacious, quick (for when I bought it), and so well-designed it never looked dated.

When it was time to sell, I drove a new Model S and nearly bought one. Lucid Air promised similar features with more luxury. Porsche's Taycan offered full EV driving with the handling of a Porsche. But as well all know, the UI is slow, the backup camera is a travesty, and for a car this size, the back seats shouldn't be that small. Don't get me wrong, I love my Taycan. But you can't deny that the Tesla Model S deserved the C&D Car of the Year award back then, and deserves the Car of the Century accolades it gets today.

 

[F1Ruaraidh]

OG Tesla Model S owner here. Mine was a 2013 Model S with the 60 KWh battery pack, so I speak from experience. In 2013, the car was nothing short of revolutionary. The large central touchscreen, configurable gauge cluster, central-computer-controlled vehicle with over the air updates were multiple generations ahead of legacy car manufacturers at the time, and still ahead in some areas to this day. The fact that they iterated and developed the car in real time instead of across a 5+ year "model year" cycle meant I got full UI updates and actual hardware updates along the way. When I sold my Model S in 2024 (replaced with my Taycan) I had Gen 3 door handles that were worlds better than the Gen 1 units noted in the video. The car was reliable, spacious, quick (for when I bought it), and so well-designed it never looked dated.

When it was time to sell, I drove a new Model S and nearly bought one. Lucid Air promised similar features with more luxury. Porsche's Taycan offered full EV driving with the handling of a Porsche. But as well all know, the UI is slow, the backup camera is a travesty, and for a car this size, the back seats shouldn't be that small. Don't get me wrong, I love my Taycan. But you can't deny that the Tesla Model S deserved the C&D Car of the Year award back then, and deserves the Car of the Century accolades it gets today.

It's still superb to this day. The screen, nav, app, settings, service etc still brilliant then with CCS, camerand MCU2 upgrades kept the car up to date.

My 8yo is still on the *original* brakes at 150k miles!!!

Porsche will never update existing cars. Tesla 1 - Porsche 0.

 

[69Mach390]

I don't know how many folks here currently own or lease both a Taycan and Tesla (I do), but if one characterizes a Tesla as old and outdated, then the Taycan is

Parts of it are for sure (infotainment system).

Resale and reliability suck too.

See what I did there? Actually criticized a brand/car I own. Seems nearly impossible for brand T peeps.

 

[FlyingPoint]

Parts of it are for sure (infotainment system).

Resale and reliability suck too.

See what I did there? Actually criticized a brand/car I own. Seems nearly impossible for brand T peeps.

I would not know as I am not a "T-brand peeps". I will tell you this - I have been a Taycan owner for over 5 1/2 years now. I have owned two different models and I would never own this car again. It has not met my expectations. I dismissed the first experience as "early adopter" issues. I have owned a ton of 911's raced my GT3. PAG is not the same brand it was ten years ago and its not getting better anytime soon. I wish all the folks that still believe in PAG well, I am out when this lease is up. I have made it this far in life knowing "when to fold them".

I am so sick of the basic stuff, just not working. It is ridiculous for a vehicle at this price point.

 

[F1Ruaraidh]

Parts of it are for sure (infotainment system).

Resale and reliability suck too.

See what I did there? Actually criticized a brand/car I own. Seems nearly impossible for brand T peeps.

You didn't read my post then, I own both and complement/criticise both in equal measure!

 

[F1Ruaraidh]

Exact the opposite here in Germany for me, concerning the Porsche service and after-sales experience.
I was fed-up with non-existent service by Tesla, being as arrogant as you describe your experience with Porsche.
The customer relation with my Porsche-shop contributed to my decision to having bought a 911T recently.

Are Porsche centres directly run by Porsche in Germany? Or through Dealer companies?

My local OPCs are all S(h)ytner, a dealer company so bad it ended my relationship with AMG as a product despite 17 years at Mercedes AMG and McLaren (still had Merc engines at the time).

Brooklands Mercedes (run by MB directly) were superb however. It's just the 3rd party dealership chains that are awful.

 

[BjörnfromHamburg]

Not run by Porsche Germany.
Dealerships are mostly 3rd party here.
I guessed already, that I just could've been lucky with my dealership.
In Germany there are also quite a few, complaining about lack of interest and arrogance by their shop.
In the first place, I tend to say: One has to endure the echo to what one is sending across.
But with my shop specialist, I also met a real nice human-being.

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