DC charging 4S Taycan

[Eric]

I recently posted charging my 4S Taycan at a 150 Kwatt EA charger.I did not get more than 66Kwatts out of this charger.I went back to the same location but a different 150Kwatt charger and my new experience is as follows
1)SOC 26% and 76 miles range starting charge at 112 KW 2)SOC 55% 111 KW 3)SOC 61% 104 KW 4)SOC 67% 105 KW 5)SOC 74% 108 KW 6)SOC 80% 110 KW which was the end Total consumption 52 Kwatts in 29.08 minutes and 218 miles range

Sponsored

 

[arijaycomet]

Two biggest factors to how fast you will charge are SOC (state of charge/%) and the temperature of the battery pack. Other conditions also matter. And then, of course, the supply/EVSE max output.

There have been charts shared here that show/explain. You will see 250-270kW max up to ~40% SOC but only if the pack is ~90F. If the battery is colder, the max kW is lower. Once you are over 40% SOC you'll see the charge taper down. Somewhere around 60% you probably won't be much over 150kW no matter how toasty the pack remains.

All said ALL of your data supports this and matches, save for one part of the charging session. Fact that you started at 112kW when at 26% indicates you probably did not precondition the pack, and the temp was too low. If I had to wager a guess, your pack was probably around 65F at that point.

Don't forget to use the native Nav in the PCM to select a "known" Porsche charger, if you want to precondition the battery up to 85-95F so that you can get the coveted 270kW.

 

[Miwa]

Set one line in the info display in the right pod on the dash to show battery temp. Cold battery = slow charge.

I've tried setting nav for preheating, but unless you are going to be driving for a long way to the charger, it's pretty useless, IMO. It takes a long time to heat things up when not charging. Charging does heat the battery up though.

 

[arijaycomet]

Based on a few videos I've seen recently that hit YouTube it looks like the 350kW chargers will take a cold battery and within ~5 mins get it to a temp that usually can peak to 250kW (Starting around 110-130kW). As I've only had my car 1 month, I have not had time to test this. I did visit a 350kW charger but I started at 45% SOC so by the time the battery temp peaked, it was already at 50% SOC so it was never going to get high enough to be noteworthy.

 

[Eric]

Two biggest factors to how fast you will charge are SOC (state of charge/%) and the temperature of the battery pack. Other conditions also matter. And then, of course, the supply/EVSE max output.

There have been charts shared here that show/explain. You will see 250-270kW max up to ~40% SOC but only if the pack is ~90F. If the battery is colder, the max kW is lower. Once you are over 40% SOC you'll see the charge taper down. Somewhere around 60% you probably won't be much over 150kW no matter how toasty the pack remains.

All said ALL of your data supports this and matches, save for one part of the charging session. Fact that you started at 112kW when at 26% indicates you probably did not precondition the pack, and the temp was too low. If I had to wager a guess, your pack was probably around 65F at that point.

Don't forget to use the native Nav in the PCM to select a "known" Porsche charger, if you want to precondition the battery up to 85-95F so that you can get the coveted 270kW.

You are right in live in South florida and the ambient temp was around 75 degrees and I did not precondition the pack because i live next door to the charger and that explains that the rate was steady during the charging process and went up a bit at bit at end because the battery temp was up.Next time i will look at he battery temp as well

 

[Eric]

Set one line in the info display in the right pod on the dash to show battery temp. Cold battery = slow charge.

I've tried setting nav for preheating, but unless you are going to be driving for a long way to the charger, it's pretty useless, IMO. It takes a long time to heat things up when not charging. Charging does heat the battery up though.

I did have this battery temp on the dash just forgot to register it.Ambient temp at that time was around 75 degrees and since i live next door to the charger.The battery temp was probably around 75 degrees as well

 

[Miwa]

Based on a few videos I've seen recently that hit YouTube it looks like the 350kW chargers will take a cold battery and within ~5 mins get it to a temp that usually can peak to 250kW (Starting around 110-130kW). As I've only had my car 1 month, I have not had time to test this. I did visit a 350kW charger but I started at 45% SOC so by the time the battery temp peaked, it was already at 50% SOC so it was never going to get high enough to be noteworthy.

My experience is that it takes about 15 minutes of charging to get the battery warm enough to get the speed over 100kW, starting at a temp of <65F. I set the charger as the destination in the Nav (and not the address, but selecting the 350kW charger in the Nav), and it made almost no difference in the 10mins to drive to the charger. Started around 50kW, and once things get above 80F you start getting decent speed.

 

[arijaycomet]

@Miwa -- indeed you are not going to get triple digit kW if you are below ~60F. My only test recently required me to drive ~45m to the charger to test/sample. And based on my temps and SOC, I was able to get to ~120kW. I also chose the charger in the nav, but I questioned how much of the temp going up was driving vs the car's "preconditioning"

One thing I love is that in the Tesla it actually shows, on-screen, that it is doing the pre heating work. I wish the Porsche did that, too -- it would be great if we could see more of what is going on, to affirmative the preconditioning is happening.

 

[russw]

Have you folks watched the YouTube video for the EV Cannonball? They had so many issues with EA charging. The 150kw chargers were generally OK but the fast chargers failed often and depended heavily on battery temperature (SOC was sub 5% most of the time). I wonder if the new base Taycan performs any better with their new charger authentication support (or whatever you call it- plugin and charge).
If you don't want to watch the over 2 hour video (I did), here is a nice summary.

https://www.thedrive.com/news/38578...esla-for-the-fastest-ev-cannonball-run-record

 

[Scandinavian]

I set the charger as the destination in the Nav (and not the address, but selecting the 350kW charger in the Nav), and it made almost no difference in the 10mins to drive to the charger.

10 minutes would not give much energy into the battery. Remember that package probably weighs about 600 kg or more. And the preheating of battery might be some 6 kW? So you would need to drive for quite some time to see a decent value on the ?

 

[arijaycomet]

@russw -- saw your post in another thread -- clearly you are "waiting" for things on the EA/charging network before you grab a Taycan. And really, so is most of the population. In general people aren't ready to give up the ability to stop and fuel in less than 5 mins. Average person doesn't want to spend 20-30m charging, and won't deal with the charging issues that are shown. (Yes, I watched all 2 hours of that video last night; though I knew most of the details as I'm good friends with many of the organizers of that excursion).

If you are worried about charging, you'd be better off with a Tesla. I was able to charge at 225kW during a recent 1500+ mile journey in my wife's 2020 Tesla Model Y LR AWD. There was no hassle, no worrying, no moving chargers. Every stop was perfect, flawless. You just get out, plug in, and go about your business. No hand shakes, no hassles. Why? Because Tesla owns the whole experience from top-to-bottom. So you're getting a turn key enjoyment factor that nobody else can offer. And until an automaker decides to also get into the energy business, that is how it will go.

(This is like Apple's approach, from making hardware, to software, and all in-between from the sales to the manufacturing, etc. Nobody else does this, and while VW Group has their money in the EA experience, and such, that 2hr video clearly shows its a software handshake issue).

But -- it takes pioneers like the guys who did the coast-to-coast run to help figure it out. As they figured out, if the car ramps up to ~225 kW the experience was fine. Also, they found the results varied depending on which mfg of DC fast charger. ABB being far superior. But you have automakers under one roof, the charging infrastructure people under another. And those who are making the hardware at yet another. And again you have now 3x accountable for this, versus 1.

For whatever it may be worth --- I did a trip 2 years ago in an Audi eTron SUV. During this trip I ran projections and numbers, and had a friend who had done the same trip in a Tesla Model X LR/100. We figured out that the whole trip was within 5mins equal. So where the eTron SUV got far inferior efficiency, the charging speeds were better. That car only charged at 150kW just like the Tesla X (which I think is/was 120kW max for their car). Long story short? The Audi could sustain a higher kW-rate-of-charge deeper into the SOC% than the Tesla, allowing for the total trip (approx 500 miles) to be within 5mins total time (Charging + Driving).

Now with that said-- one of the BIG advertisements here for the Porsche Taycan is that it can do 270kW charging. But even when it can do it (when the handshake doesn't fail; even if they FIX that part)-- people need to understand that will still only be up to ~42% SOC -- and then it will taper off. Just the same BS marketing as Tesla saying you can charge at "1000 miles per hour of charge"-- guess how long that lasts? Even SHORTER than the Taycan. It's all smoke-and-mirrors. I dont buy into it....

And to that end-- the BEST cars for charging remain the VW Group cars, in that they add more kW faster. Once VW Group can get more efficient cars we'll be better off. Wait for the VW ID.4 and see what happens. That is going to blow the Tesla out of the water -- more efficient AND faster to charge? Get ready for that 1-2 punch!

 

[arijaycomet]

PS: I've owned 11 Tesla vehicles. My wife still has a Model Y. We will ALWAYS have a Tesla of some sort in the garage; they will remain the leader for self driving for some time to come, and EV tech in general, because they "own" the entire eco system. That said, the Taycan gives me more reason to smile when I drive it. For a road trip, I'd take it happily; but I know it will have charging issues/hassles that the Tesla would not. There are pros/cons to any car, even outside the EV sector. But as time presses on, these will flatten. I run the local owners group on FB for Tesla-- I'm fan boy #1 -- but I spread the love around.

 

[Scandinavian]

And to that end-- the BEST cars for charging remain the VW Group cars, in that they add more kW faster. Once VW Group can get more efficient cars we'll be better off. Wait for the VW ID.4 and see what happens. That is going to blow the Tesla out of the water -- more efficient AND faster to charge? Get ready for that 1-2 punch!

Maybe they will but so far it does not show from VW.

Have a look at this comparison and see that the Taycan can be very fast with charging, given the correct network. I wonder if more of the problems that are seen in US is due to EA. Ionity seem to have to have a better grip on things.!



interesting measures he suggests here to charge between 30 to 75% as a measure of efficiency.

 

[russw]

@russw -- saw your post in another thread -- clearly you are "waiting" for things on the EA/charging network before you grab a Taycan. And really, so is most of the population.
[...]

And to that end-- the BEST cars for charging remain the VW Group cars, in that they add more kW faster. Once VW Group can get more efficient cars we'll be better off. Wait for the VW ID.4 and see what happens. That is going to blow the Tesla out of the water -- more efficient AND faster to charge? Get ready for that 1-2 punch!

Hi @arijaycomet, thanks so much for the detailed thoughtful response. You nailed it. I'm very tech savvy so these issues and workarounds would be something I could deal with but, frankly, I'm just not in hurry to be an early adopter on such a significant purchase. That's ironic if you knew me, I'm an early adopter for many other tech things. The ID.3 looks kinda interesting in addition to the ID.4 and certainly the VW platform looks great but it will take time to iron out these issues.

I'm still in research mode for this. I'm wondering how well VW group (and Porsche in particular) will do in updating their car firmware over the air. Tesla has nailed it and is a very big draw for me. Just like an iPhone, the car improves over time. That's a really big deal for a modern car. They have the over-the-air subscription to options but how often (if ever?) will they update firmware to address problems like charging handshake issues or PCM bug fixes?

 

[arijaycomet]

@Scandinavian -- indeed a big portion of the issue goes to the whole "who runs the network" -- that is Tesla's huge advantage. They control the entire UX. We are dealing with crappy EA in the USA. IONITY has own share of issues but sounds like a far superior network. You don't hear Bjorn complaining often in his videos about bad charging. It happens but not as often.

One thing I found that was interesting was -- in a Tesla model X compared to Audi eTron SUV -- the charging speed in the Audi offset the efficiency benefit of a Tesla. And that was just at 150kW. I think we'll soon find the same for a Taycan vs Model S --- but Porsche needs to up their efficiency game, and also, EA needs to fix these charging problems.

Sponsored