Former Model S P90DL owner comparing it to my new Taycan 4S

[feye]

We work on autonomous driving here and traffic lights are actually very hard. Just imagine that you have an electronic billboard next to the road with an advertisement which shows a traffic light turning green. Ouf...

Hendrik, this looks good, doesn't it?

Does anybody know, what hardware/AI Taycan has onboard?

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[refazi]

We work on autonomous driving here and traffic lights are actually very hard. Just imagine that you have an electronic billboard next to the road with an advertisement which shows a traffic light turning green. Ouf...

That's why in the US traffic lights are getting smarter by broadcasting the light state to the car, many Audi cars has that receiver that can get this signal and display it on the car dash - https://abc7.com/audi-automotive-technology-green-lights-red/3878977/

 

[epirali]

That's why in the US traffic lights are getting smarter by broadcasting the light state to the car, many Audi cars has that receiver that can get this signal and display it on the car dash - https://abc7.com/audi-automotive-technology-green-lights-red/3878977/

Heh, where I live near DC our lights are so dumb they don’t even respond to traffic patterns, even at night. Much less broadcast jack.

I believe this started in Germany, and they even are working on two way comms so the car can tell you not to slow down as you approach a red light. Here we can’t have full power laser, matrix headlights, laser scanning headlights, video based reduced drag side mirrors, and the list keeps growing.

But we do allow carburetors, see we are at least catching up to the 70s in terms of regulation.

 

[iten]

Heh, where I live near DC our lights are so dumb they don’t even respond to traffic patterns, even at night. Much less broadcast jack.

I believe this started in Germany, and they even are working on two way comms so the car can tell you not to slow down as you approach a red light. Here we can’t have full power laser, matrix headlights, laser scanning headlights, video based reduced drag side mirrors, and the list keeps growing.

But we do allow carburetors, see we are at least catching up to the 70s in terms of regulation.

Here in Hong Kong, we cannot even have innodrive or lane change assist (blind spot warning)....But somehow Tesla manage to ignore the rules and install all those equipments anyway...

 

[ron_b]

Here in Hong Kong, we cannot even have innodrive or lane change assist (blind spot warning)....But somehow Tesla manage to ignore the rules and install all those equipments anyway...

Well that's not country specific behavior, Tesla ignores the rules here and opens their factory before they were supposed to. Just a data point, not to derail discussion.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/06/09/tesla-factory-coronavirus/

 

[MDCShoots]

I want to share this for anyone who is interested, because my wife can't listen to me talk about this car anymore! I just got my 4S on Friday and it's a surreal experience after having dreamt about this moment since the Mission E was revealed. I never got to test drive the 4S (only the Turbo S was available for demo) so I was somewhat apprehensive, but I had a good enough idea of what to expect. I owned a Model S P90D ludicrous for three years and while I loved the power, smoothness of the electric motors and effortless feel - I missed the build quality, design and handling that I had come to know having German sports sedans before this. My biggest concerns were the difference in power (the Tesla did 0-60 in 2.8 seconds and the 4S is claimed at 4.0 second) and the self-driving capabilities (more on that below). I wasn't so concerned about the range because I have a short commute and another vehicle to use for longer drives.

After just 250 miles behind the wheel, I am very happy with my choice. Regarding the power, the Tesla had a bit more "snap" off the line, but for daily driving it will be mostly unnoticed and I'm sure as the memory of the Tesla fades, it will not even be something I think about. Most importantly, everything else about the Taycan is so much better that the minor difference in off the line acceleration is almost irrelevant. (Would I like to have a Turbo S? Absolutely, but I couldn't justify an additional $60k just for a bit more snappiness). My car has the bigger battery and the performance package and the handling is almost supernatural from anything else I've driven, including my 2016 GT3. It is going to take some time to get used to the dynamics of it all, but I know it will only get better and faster as I get more comfortable.

The range was not really a concern for me, but I was surprised that it was so low compared to Tesla's offerings. I had a feeling that it would be more of a "true range" than Teslas though, and I was definitely correct. On cold days with aggressive driving in the Tesla, I would get as low as 55% of the claimed range. My first drive in the Taycan, I did 120 miles and I was driving fairly aggressively (hard accelerations and turns and cruising speed over 80mph for most of the drive) in sport plus mode and it only used 110 miles of range. That NEVER happened in the Tesla, even when driving in “chill mode” with range mode ON it would use more range than actual mileage driven. I don’t know how Tesla gets away with it, but the EPA ratings are not accurate and this will definitely be a drawback for those people that are comparing these cars that are “not meant to be compared”.

When it comes to "self-driving" capability, there is no question that the Tesla is one of the most advanced in that area, but I was surprised with the lack of information and clarity from Porsche on this topic. Obviously, this car is not advertised as "self-driving" or "autopilot" or any of those things and they keep saying it was not made to compete with Tesla, but my main concern was having a system that can handle traffic situations with minimal driver input and I think the Adaptive Cruise Control with Lane Keep Assist will work fine for that. What I'm still not clear on is how the Innodrive system plays into this. I watched every video I could find on it and still wasn't 100% sure what I was getting and what I would be missing without it so I just ordered it with it. In my short amount of time behind the wheel, I am starting to think that was a waste. I was hoping it would enhance the steering input accuracy of the lane keep assist system in some way, but it seems like it's only purpose is monitoring speed and GPS info for turns to allow you to use the adaptive cruise control on back roads or highways with constantly changing speed limits (more common in Europe). On the highway, it kept setting the cruise control back to 50mph when it would see a sign which would unexpectedly slow me down in the middle of traffic - I am going to need to experiment with this more. I didn’t buy this car to be driven around, but living in the NYC area, traffic is a reality the majority of the time I am on the road and it is a feature I came to love in the Tesla (Also, I am addicted to my iPhone and it was nice to flip on autopilot when I needed to respond to an urgent text). My wife has a Volvo with Pilot Assist and it does just as well as the Tesla. From my limited testing, the Taycan is not as good as either at highway speeds, but I’m sure it will be fine in slow moving traffic which is when it is needed most.

Overall, it is truly a masterpiece of a car in my opinion. The performance and handling are incredible, the design and build quality are top notch, and this car is an absolute dream as a daily driver that is both sporty, luxurious and incredibly quiet and comfortable. I cross-shopped this with just about everything out there while waiting over 2 years from putting down the deposit and there was nothing that comes close to checking all the boxes this car does. It’s not even really possible to cross-shop this with a gas powered car because nothing comes close to the smoothness you experience with electric motors with no gear changes (or just one hidden one in this case). I was close to moving to a gas car after a couple years with the Tesla because I was fed up with the quality issues, but I am very happy I waited. If you are on the fence, go for it!

Just my two cents! I appreciate any counter points or questions. I could talk about this stuff for days.

Great review - thanks so much. I totally agree with everything. I moved from 911 to Taycan and it is an awesome car. Also own a Tesla and the Range for both model x and Taycan is BS - Tesla would be lucky to get 220 miles but I am getting 260 out of Taycan! Finally you are dead right on innodrive. I just don’t get it!

 

[MDCShoots]

I want to share this for anyone who is interested, because my wife can't listen to me talk about this car anymore! I just got my 4S on Friday and it's a surreal experience after having dreamt about this moment since the Mission E was revealed. I never got to test drive the 4S (only the Turbo S was available for demo) so I was somewhat apprehensive, but I had a good enough idea of what to expect. I owned a Model S P90D ludicrous for three years and while I loved the power, smoothness of the electric motors and effortless feel - I missed the build quality, design and handling that I had come to know having German sports sedans before this. My biggest concerns were the difference in power (the Tesla did 0-60 in 2.8 seconds and the 4S is claimed at 4.0 second) and the self-driving capabilities (more on that below). I wasn't so concerned about the range because I have a short commute and another vehicle to use for longer drives.

After just 250 miles behind the wheel, I am very happy with my choice. Regarding the power, the Tesla had a bit more "snap" off the line, but for daily driving it will be mostly unnoticed and I'm sure as the memory of the Tesla fades, it will not even be something I think about. Most importantly, everything else about the Taycan is so much better that the minor difference in off the line acceleration is almost irrelevant. (Would I like to have a Turbo S? Absolutely, but I couldn't justify an additional $60k just for a bit more snappiness). My car has the bigger battery and the performance package and the handling is almost supernatural from anything else I've driven, including my 2016 GT3. It is going to take some time to get used to the dynamics of it all, but I know it will only get better and faster as I get more comfortable.

The range was not really a concern for me, but I was surprised that it was so low compared to Tesla's offerings. I had a feeling that it would be more of a "true range" than Teslas though, and I was definitely correct. On cold days with aggressive driving in the Tesla, I would get as low as 55% of the claimed range. My first drive in the Taycan, I did 120 miles and I was driving fairly aggressively (hard accelerations and turns and cruising speed over 80mph for most of the drive) in sport plus mode and it only used 110 miles of range. That NEVER happened in the Tesla, even when driving in “chill mode” with range mode ON it would use more range than actual mileage driven. I don’t know how Tesla gets away with it, but the EPA ratings are not accurate and this will definitely be a drawback for those people that are comparing these cars that are “not meant to be compared”.

When it comes to "self-driving" capability, there is no question that the Tesla is one of the most advanced in that area, but I was surprised with the lack of information and clarity from Porsche on this topic. Obviously, this car is not advertised as "self-driving" or "autopilot" or any of those things and they keep saying it was not made to compete with Tesla, but my main concern was having a system that can handle traffic situations with minimal driver input and I think the Adaptive Cruise Control with Lane Keep Assist will work fine for that. What I'm still not clear on is how the Innodrive system plays into this. I watched every video I could find on it and still wasn't 100% sure what I was getting and what I would be missing without it so I just ordered it with it. In my short amount of time behind the wheel, I am starting to think that was a waste. I was hoping it would enhance the steering input accuracy of the lane keep assist system in some way, but it seems like it's only purpose is monitoring speed and GPS info for turns to allow you to use the adaptive cruise control on back roads or highways with constantly changing speed limits (more common in Europe). On the highway, it kept setting the cruise control back to 50mph when it would see a sign which would unexpectedly slow me down in the middle of traffic - I am going to need to experiment with this more. I didn’t buy this car to be driven around, but living in the NYC area, traffic is a reality the majority of the time I am on the road and it is a feature I came to love in the Tesla (Also, I am addicted to my iPhone and it was nice to flip on autopilot when I needed to respond to an urgent text). My wife has a Volvo with Pilot Assist and it does just as well as the Tesla. From my limited testing, the Taycan is not as good as either at highway speeds, but I’m sure it will be fine in slow moving traffic which is when it is needed most.

Overall, it is truly a masterpiece of a car in my opinion. The performance and handling are incredible, the design and build quality are top notch, and this car is an absolute dream as a daily driver that is both sporty, luxurious and incredibly quiet and comfortable. I cross-shopped this with just about everything out there while waiting over 2 years from putting down the deposit and there was nothing that comes close to checking all the boxes this car does. It’s not even really possible to cross-shop this with a gas powered car because nothing comes close to the smoothness you experience with electric motors with no gear changes (or just one hidden one in this case). I was close to moving to a gas car after a couple years with the Tesla because I was fed up with the quality issues, but I am very happy I waited. If you are on the fence, go for it!

Just my two cents! I appreciate any counter points or questions. I could talk about this stuff for days.

If you are interested I just did a video review of my Taycan and compared It to my Tesla and 911 - check it out as I think you will see much of what you have written!

 

[ron_b]

@MDCShoots hi Marc, I had posted your video on a new thread the day it came out. I really appreciated an owner experience, listening to it again today I heard you comment about the sport sound and having to turn it on. I wasn't sure if you saw in another posting I said that you can use the individual setting of the Chrono package and set the sports sound on by default along with ride height etc.

My 4S lock should have been today, now just a countdown till November with a PECLA delivery.

 

[RickDC]

I miss the wonderful rear camera HD of the Tesla, the camera in my Taycan is just awful, and on top I got the 360 cameras and after the software upgrade they took away the virtual 3D. I read un this forum that is part now of another package. I think this should be a safety must have for all the Taycans Due poor visibility.

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