Getting close to pulling the trigger on first EV

[joefig44]

I'm getting close to pulling the trigger on my first EV. I've been test driving cars for a few months now (ICE and EVs), and almost went ahead with a new Model S LR, but I finally decided I wouldn't like it as much a year or two in as I would a Taycan.

My daily driver for 9 years now has been a 2015 Audi S4 (sport differential) and still only has 109K km on it. But it's been in two separate side collisions - both fully repaired and back to spec according to Audi. Honestly, I don't think about that fact very much, but when I do I think it may be time to finally move on.
But I also at the same time feel like it's a waste to not keep driving the S4 as it's still running so well.

I rarely put my S4 into it's Dynamic Mode, maybe just when I'm coming on or off a freeway through the turns, or a few other roads. After test driving the Teslas, I have found my S4 kind of benign even in dynamic mode - so I find now I keep it in Dynamic Mode more of the time, but find things a bit herky/jerky. In comfort mode, my Audi is just flat out boring.
I've never tracked it.

I'm targetting a Taycan 4S or GTS. My heart says GTS but my head says 4S and that I'll never use the GTS features.
Do any of you GTS owners out there find you should have gone with the 4S?

I've kept my last 2 cars about a decade each, and previous cars an avg of 5 years or so. Usually always finance - the S4 was my first lease, and I bought it out at the end as the kms were so low.
I don't have a daily commute at all, so it's <200km trips locally at most - I only drive about 12,000km a year.
Live near Toronto, Canada, so do have 3-4 months/year of mildish winter weather.

I'll likely go CPO/used from a Porsche dealership, especially since I plan to likely lease and then see where we are in 2-4 years. As mentioned, I'm always inclined to finance - leasing just doesn't feel right to me. If I did in fact decide finance because I plan to keep the car for a decade anyways, I think I'd have to go with a new 2025 4S for it's improved battery (the expense would seal the deal on a 4S vs. a new GTS I think).
It would seem silly if I planned to keep this car as long as my past cars that I buy a used one right now that doesn't have the newest battery chemistry. Or, should I just accept the new financial reality that I just lease my vehicles from now on.
I guess in another 8 years or so, the 2025 Taycan 4S would be worth very little, but by the point wouldn't the used 2024 one I bought be worth even less? I guess the difference of $30-40K CAD between the two that I paid up front would mostly be the depreciative aspect of it, but isn't that kind of worth it to get into the better battery that's available now?
OR, am I better off waiting a few more months hoping the 2025 Taycan 4S drops closer to the 2024's current price?

So anyways, as you can see, I'm still a bit conflicted on what to do on a couple fronts here in order to best set me up for the long haul.

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[bob66hall]

Hi Joe -- You have brave souls who were the "early adopters" -- pioneers in the Porsche EV launch (me, a 2021 4S, new, loaded). Yes, we've braved waves of nettlesome recalls, plus rollout issues with public charging. Most all were minor -- software updates (before going online), charging cord scares, etc. But that's most all behind you now (you can thank us later .

I cannot see a "wrong choice" for you, between GTS and 4S. Personally, I'd spec any and all upgrades to charging speed. IMO, charging speed is what matters most when a "public" charge is needed. The trip computer will give you en-route info, meaning a five or ten minute charge is all that's often needed. I have solar panels installed at home, so I rarely charge at public chargers.

The performance side of the 4S/GTS question is sorta "great versus great." I have found the 4S to be wonderful "sport sedan" ride (with on-the-steering-wheel Sport and SportPlus options), with crazy fast acceleration. I am also aware that I'm pushing some 6,000 pounds around my local mountain pass switchbacks. Having concluded my 4S is the best daily driver around, I chose to add a 997.2 Cab manual to the garage. Half the weight of the Taycan, 400 horses, and top down). Great combo, if it's in the bank for you! (Or, just keep your hot-rod Audi, too...not worth much today).

Finally, just pull the trigger, Joe! You're missing way too many fun days driving while you analyze. There is no "wrong answer" to your GTS/4S question.

 

[W1NGE]

I'm getting close to pulling the trigger on my first EV. I've been test driving cars for a few months now (ICE and EVs), and almost went ahead with a new Model S LR, but I finally decided I wouldn't like it as much a year or two in as I would a Taycan.

My daily driver for 9 years now has been a 2015 Audi S4 (sport differential) and still only has 109K km on it. But it's been in two separate side collisions - both fully repaired and back to spec according to Audi. Honestly, I don't think about that fact very much, but when I do I think it may be time to finally move on.
But I also at the same time feel like it's a waste to not keep driving the S4 as it's still running so well.

I rarely put my S4 into it's Dynamic Mode, maybe just when I'm coming on or off a freeway through the turns, or a few other roads. After test driving the Teslas, I have found my S4 kind of benign even in dynamic mode - so I find now I keep it in Dynamic Mode more of the time, but find things a bit herky/jerky. In comfort mode, my Audi is just flat out boring.
I've never tracked it.

I'm targetting a Taycan 4S or GTS. My heart says GTS but my head says 4S and that I'll never use the GTS features.
Do any of you GTS owners out there find you should have gone with the 4S?

I've kept my last 2 cars about a decade each, and previous cars an avg of 5 years or so. Usually always finance - the S4 was my first lease, and I bought it out at the end as the kms were so low.
I don't have a daily commute at all, so it's <200km trips locally at most - I only drive about 12,000km a year.
Live near Toronto, Canada, so do have 3-4 months/year of mildish winter weather.

I'll likely go CPO/used from a Porsche dealership, especially since I plan to likely lease and then see where we are in 2-4 years. As mentioned, I'm always inclined to finance - leasing just doesn't feel right to me. If I did in fact decide finance because I plan to keep the car for a decade anyways, I think I'd have to go with a new 2025 4S for it's improved battery (the expense would seal the deal on a 4S vs. a new GTS I think).
It would seem silly if I planned to keep this car as long as my past cars that I buy a used one right now that doesn't have the newest battery chemistry. Or, should I just accept the new financial reality that I just lease my vehicles from now on.
I guess in another 8 years or so, the 2025 Taycan 4S would be worth very little, but by the point wouldn't the used 2024 one I bought be worth even less? I guess the difference of $30-40K CAD between the two that I paid up front would mostly be the depreciative aspect of it, but isn't that kind of worth it to get into the better battery that's available now?
OR, am I better off waiting a few more months hoping the 2025 Taycan 4S drops closer to the 2024's current price?

So anyways, as you can see, I'm still a bit conflicted on what to do on a couple fronts here in order to best set me up for the long haul.

I've had a 4S and now have a GTS. The only difference between the two cars in terms of spec was that I didn't has Porsche Torque Vectoring (PTV) in my 4S which is standard in the GTS. Both cars had / have the optional Rear Axle Steering (RAS). Both options are desirable and noticeable in use.

I would advocate the GTS over the 4S particularly if buying 2nd user. Today the new GTS (deliveries next April) has just about priced itself out of the market - my replacement for the car I have and same spec is £12K and that's before the forthcoming price increase expected in March. Taycans, alas, are artificially overpriced now given low take up on the 2nd user market.

Be clear on model year of car the Taycan J1.1 was 2024 (MY24) and the facelift Taycan J1.2 was mid 2024 and classed as MY25. So forget MY24 (or prior) and push for MY25 (larger battery - 95kWH usable) provides the extra range.

Note that a MY25 4S has the same power output as the MY24 GTS (Porsche always bump the power from a higher model to the next one down during a facelift). Performance wise therefore the a J1.2 (MY25) 4S will hold its own against any MY GTS (MY23 / MY24).


I think you will always be chasing your tail but if you intend to keep for a while > 3 years) then go MY25. There will be an all new Taycan J2.0 by 2026 / 2027 - if you want to wait then wait until then as this will likely have a step change in battery tech than simply having a larger battery.

 

[KLHubb]

In 2020, I leased, then bought a 2020 4S and simply love the car.
I live in upstate NY where we have lots of cold and snow....this car has been a perfect winter car with all wheel drive lots of weight to make it very controllable in heavy snow.
Our cool weather also if very kind to the battery.
You will love it.

 

[joefig44]

I've had a 4S and now have a GTS. The only difference between the two cars in terms of spec was that I didn't has Porsche Torque Vectoring (PTV) in my 4S which is standard in the GTS. Both cars had / have the optional Rear Axle Steering (RAS). Both options are desirable and noticeable in use.

I would advocate the GTS over the 4S particularly if buying 2nd user. Today the new GTS (deliveries next April) has just about priced itself out of the market - my replacement for the car I have and same spec is £12K and that's before the forthcoming price increase expected in March. Taycans, alas, are artificially overpriced now given low take up on the 2nd user market.

Be clear on model year of car the Taycan J1.1 was 2024 (MY24) and the facelift Taycan J1.2 was mid 2024 and classed as MY25. So forget MY24 (or prior) and push for MY25 (larger battery - 95kWH usable) provides the extra range.

Note that a MY25 4S has the same power output as the MY24 GTS (Porsche always bump the power from a higher model to the next one down during a facelift). Performance wise therefore the a J1.2 (MY25) 4S will hold its own against any MY GTS (MY23 / MY24).


I think you will always be chasing your tail but if you intend to keep for a while > 3 years) then go MY25. There will be an all new Taycan J2.0 by 2026 / 2027 - if you want to wait then wait until then as this will likely have a step change in battery tech than simply having a larger battery.

Did you find driving a 4S with no PTV or RAS feels like it greatly takes away from the driving experience than from a Taycan that has both?

I do intend to keep >3 years for sure - at least 4 years and possibly longer.
I'm in Canada, so all MY25 are J1.2 and all MY24 and prior are J1.1. I think this is a product of fact in NA we get the European vehicles at least 6 months after you do.

A similarly spec'd J1.2 4S vs. a used 2024 J1.1 with 11,000 km on it is ~$60,000 CAD more after taxes. This is of course used price to new MSRP, but still.
This is why I'm given pause on what to do - just lease a used J1.1 for 39 months, or finance a J1.2 and pay the price on a monthly payment for 7 years.
If it's the used one, how far back should I go in years? When was the J1.0 to J1.1 jump and is a J1.0 to be avoided?

 

[joefig44]

Hi Joe -- You have brave souls who were the "early adopters" -- pioneers in the Porsche EV launch (me, a 2021 4S, new, loaded). Yes, we've braved waves of nettlesome recalls, plus rollout issues with public charging. Most all were minor -- software updates (before going online), charging cord scares, etc. But that's most all behind you now (you can thank us later .

I cannot see a "wrong choice" for you, between GTS and 4S. Personally, I'd spec any and all upgrades to charging speed. IMO, charging speed is what matters most when a "public" charge is needed. The trip computer will give you en-route info, meaning a five or ten minute charge is all that's often needed. I have solar panels installed at home, so I rarely charge at public chargers.

The performance side of the 4S/GTS question is sorta "great versus great." I have found the 4S to be wonderful "sport sedan" ride (with on-the-steering-wheel Sport and SportPlus options), with crazy fast acceleration. I am also aware that I'm pushing some 6,000 pounds around my local mountain pass switchbacks. Having concluded my 4S is the best daily driver around, I chose to add a 997.2 Cab manual to the garage. Half the weight of the Taycan, 400 horses, and top down). Great combo, if it's in the bank for you! (Or, just keep your hot-rod Audi, too...not worth much today).

Finally, just pull the trigger, Joe! You're missing way too many fun days driving while you analyze. There is no "wrong answer" to your GTS/4S question.

I truly am grateful for you early adopters. I still think though we are all still early adopters (unless you buy a Tesla who have been at it for 12+ years now and seem to have the recipe nailed down for EVs (apart from the obvious spartan interiors and lack of driving engagement).

I am like you - I would charge at home 90% of the time, so charging speed would not be too much of a concern for me.

I'm trying to get to the point of "just pull the trigger" but I still have to determine which way to go here regarding used vs. new and also exactly which trim and options I'll get.

 

[joefig44]

In 2020, I leased, then bought a 2020 4S and simply love the car.
I live in upstate NY where we have lots of cold and snow....this car has been a perfect winter car with all wheel drive lots of weight to make it very controllable in heavy snow.
Our cool weather also if very kind to the battery.
You will love it.

Wow - totally snowed in - yeah, that's more snow than we typically around here - we would get maybe one storm a year that's that bad, if at all.

And you find it operates fine when it's frozen solid like that?

Did you buy out your lease then?

 

[W1NGE]

Did you find driving a 4S with no PTV or RAS feels like it greatly takes away from the driving experience than from a Taycan that has both?

I do intend to keep >3 years for sure - at least 4 years and possibly longer.
I'm in Canada, so all MY25 are J1.2 and all MY24 and prior are J1.1. I think this is a product of fact in NA we get the European vehicles at least 6 months after you do.

A similarly spec'd J1.2 4S vs. a used 2024 J1.1 with 11,000 km on it is ~$60,000 CAD more after taxes. This is of course used price to new MSRP, but still.
This is why I'm given pause on what to do - just lease a used J1.1 for 39 months, or finance a J1.2 and pay the price on a monthly payment for 7 years.
If it's the used one, how far back should I go in years? When was the J1.0 to J1.1 jump and is a J1.0 to be avoided?

My 4S had RAS and hence why I added it to my GTS - no brainer.

MY23 is as far back I'd go.
My GTS has both features. RAS I'd probably miss.

 

[KLHubb]

I have driven my 2020 4S year round with no problems....it lives entirely outdoors.
I find that when the ambient temp goes below around 0 degrees F, you can't use sport plus because the cold battery does not want to deliver that much power.
If you do demand a lot of amps you can get a "tortoise" icon, which reduces power temporarily.
The cabin and seat heat/AC works flawlessly in my case...I realize that some folks have had heater failures, but that appears to be taken care of with the heater recall/replacement.
I change to winter tires around the end of November, and the summer tires go on in April.
I was a bit risk averse in 2020 due to the new technology, so leased for 3 years, then then bought out the lease. A direct purchase would have saved $$$$ but I went for piece of mind.
I charge almost entirely at home, and get around 270 miles range in the winter, around 300 in the summer. Our temperate climate babies the battery, which in my case tends to go to ambient over night and barely rises unless I am on a long trip. Since I rarely fast charge, the battery seldom pre-heats or sees high DC volts/amps
I opted for rear wheel steering, tungsten carbide brakes, performance package, and Burmester audio(if you love music, it's worth every penny)
Porsche/Syracuse offers excellent service and it's scrupulous about software updates/recalls.
I love this vehicle, and can't recommend it too highly.....go for it and you will love it.

 

[joefig44]

I have driven my 2020 4S year round with no problems....it lives entirely outdoors.
I find that when the ambient temp goes below around 0 degrees F, you can't use sport plus because the cold battery does not want to deliver that much power.
If you do demand a lot of amps you can get a "tortoise" icon, which reduces power temporarily.
The cabin and seat heat/AC works flawlessly in my case...I realize that some folks have had heater failures, but that appears to be taken care of with the heater recall/replacement.
I change to winter tires around the end of November, and the summer tires go on in April.
I was a bit risk averse in 2020 due to the new technology, so leased for 3 years, then then bought out the lease. A direct purchase would have saved $$$$ but I went for piece of mind.
I charge almost entirely at home, and get around 270 miles range in the winter, around 300 in the summer. Our temperate climate babies the battery, which in my case tends to go to ambient over night and barely rises unless I am on a long trip. Since I rarely fast charge, the battery seldom pre-heats or sees high DC volts/amps
I opted for rear wheel steering, tungsten carbide brakes, performance package, and Burmester audio(if you love music, it's worth every penny)
Porsche/Syracuse offers excellent service and it's scrupulous about software updates/recalls.
I love this vehicle, and can't recommend it too highly.....go for it and you will love it.

If you were about to assume the car today as a new 2024 let's say, would you just buy it or also lease due to tech improvements coming in 3-4 years?

That range in the winter for a 2020 sounds too good to be true!

 

[KLHubb]

Regarding range, during the mild months of the year I minimize the use of accessories, which consume a lot of power....It's amazing how one can extend range by eliminating accessory use and letting gravity be your friend. If you take advantage of the coasting function on down slopes, you can get many miles for free. Just like with ICE cars, you can manage fuel/watts by paying a bit of attention to your driving behavior....and in Sport Plus you can drain the battery fast.

I would be tempted to purchase a '25 Taycan instead of leasing, and with interest rates as they are, I might consider paying in cash if possible....save big on financing costs, unless you anticipate netting better by investing the cash. I realize that the old adage,"lease things that depreciate, buy things that appreciate" does have truth to it, but I tend to own my vehicles for at least 10 years, so the amortization is spread over a decade. In addition to the 4S, I currently I own a '09 997.2 S and a '12 Cayenne, and have no plans to trade them in the near future. I will reconsider things when the Cayman E becomes available.
At current temperatures, 270 miles range is optimistic...see the attached current guess-o-meter screenshot which make 100% 250miles...I generally charge at home to 75%...more only if I need it for longer trips.

 

[bob66hall]

All else being equal, Joe, I avoid buying "introduction year" models, yet prefer buying "update" models (x.2 over x.1). Thus I'd closely study the MY2025 Taycan before opting for a MY2024 or 2023. All said, however, price depreciation on EV's has been so stunning, I'd eat my words at the right price . CPO's have great warranties. Private party deals can be attractively priced. Many 2023's are coming off two-year leases soon. Final comment -- I thought RWS might be something of a gimmick. But after a few months driving mine, I love that option. Useful in town (tight turning radius), and marvelous on the twisties at speed. Great piece of German engineering. Good luck to you, although you seem to be doing all the right homework.

 

[joefig44]

Regarding range, during the mild months of the year I minimize the use of accessories, which consume a lot of power....It's amazing how one can extend range by eliminating accessory use and letting gravity be your friend. If you take advantage of the coasting function on down slopes, you can get many miles for free. Just like with ICE cars, you can manage fuel/watts by paying a bit of attention to your driving behavior....and in Sport Plus you can drain the battery fast.

I would be tempted to purchase a '25 Taycan instead of leasing, and with interest rates as they are, I might consider paying in cash if possible....save big on financing costs, unless you anticipate netting better by investing the cash. I realize that the old adage,"lease things that depreciate, buy things that appreciate" does have truth to it, but I tend to own my vehicles for at least 10 years, so the amortization is spread over a decade. In addition to the 4S, I currently I own a '09 997.2 S and a '12 Cayenne, and have no plans to trade them in the near future. I will reconsider things when the Cayman E becomes available.
At current temperatures, 270 miles range is optimistic...see the attached current guess-o-meter screenshot which make 100% 250miles...I generally charge at home to 75%...more only if I need it for longer trips.

Good to know about how you can get that many km out of the car by using coasting. When you say accessories, do you just mean driving in the basic mode or are there other things you turn off?

I don't like paying interest, but I also run a personal mortgage business where I invest any spare funds I have to make money through investments. So yeah, for me if I were to buy, it makes sense to pay the 6 or 7% financing rate because I can use the lump sum I'd keep in the meantime to earn 10.5% through my investments.
Matter of fact, I'd potentially even pay a slightly higher finance rate if I could get an even longer term and make my payments as low as possible for this same reason.

Unfortunately, it means that I'd still be paying $3,000 CAD+ a month for a 2025 Taycan 7 years from now, but that is what makes the most financial sense - just doesn't feel very good.
I also usually keep my cars for ~10 years, but I sense that's changing.
Leasing for a shorter term gives me even more monthly equity to invest than financing, and also has the additional bonus of putting me into something new every few years, and that may be extra positive given how things may change significantly over the next few years.
Regardless, it still feels wrong to lease and not buy though.

I suppose this would end up costing much more over a longer term (10+ years over multiple leases), but isn't it worse to buy a vehicle that depreciates so quickly?
I'd love someone to help me figure that math out.

Sometimes all of this just gives me a big headache and I think I should just keep driving my S4 lol

 

[joefig44]

All else being equal, Joe, I avoid buying "introduction year" models, yet prefer buying "update" models (x.2 over x.1). Thus I'd closely study the MY2025 Taycan before opting for a MY2024 or 2023. All said, however, price depreciation on EV's has been so stunning, I'd eat my words at the right price . CPO's have great warranties. Private party deals can be attractively priced. Many 2023's are coming off two-year leases soon. Final comment -- I thought RWS might be something of a gimmick. But after a few months driving mine, I love that option. Useful in town (tight turning radius), and marvelous on the twisties at speed. Great piece of German engineering. Good luck to you, although you seem to be doing all the right homework.

I think in order to maximize effect (i.e. shave off that what seems to be in Canada that initial $50-60K depreciation on MY2025 Taycans), I'm probably better off just driving my S4 one more year and picking up a MY2025 for what will hopefully be about the same cost as what i can pick up a MY2024 Taycan for right now. Then I could still maybe lease it, but have a higher likelihood of buying it out at the end of the lease because it's won't seem so gimped in 2028 vs a MY2023 or MY2024 would in 2027.
Does that sounds like reasonable assumptions?

 

[bob66hall]

Quite reasonable, to my eye. One twist to employ would be to continue your shopping now, knowing your numbers, and "holding firm" to your buy price. If you find a "willing seller" along that road, great! If not, you're just one year older and wiser .

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