High Voltage Battery Recall EXPANDED - ARB6 & ARB7

[Cowtownhusker]

My understanding the Macan has this. But Taycan will not until new model issued

It would be even faster if they learned from Tesla cars (on the market before MissionE) and had functional OTA updates and telemetry collection. But, the old companies always think they know best.

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[whitex]

My understanding the Macan has this. But Taycan will not until new model issued

Porsche claimed Taycan had it too, so I will believe Macan has it only after they manage to do a major firmware upgrade via OTA (which never happened for the Taycan OTA).

Here is what Porsche said about the Taycan in 2019 (and yes, all 2020 Taycans already had this OTA module present). Notice that BMS (BMC) is on the list of modules it was supposed to be able to update.

 

[chun]

My understanding the Macan has this. But Taycan will not until new model issued

It doesn't. New Macans had to wait to be updated in service before being shipped.

They can probably OTA update Android Automotive / Auto, on which the PCM interface is running. But all the other stuff, no. At least not functional, and if I'm not wrong it might not even be built in the car...

 

[chun]

Porsche claimed Taycan had it too, so I will believe Macan has it only after they manage to do a major firmware upgrade via OTA (which never happened for the Taycan OTA).

Here is what Porsche said about the Taycan in 2019 (and yes, all 2020 Taycans already had this OTA module present). Notice that BMS (BMC) is on the list of modules it was supposed to be able to update.

Assuming they actually care, which they don't, and develop a proper working infrastructure for OTA, they could enable it, since the hardware is there, Tesla style... or Tesla promises style.

But probably not. I suspect the car does not have any sort of way to rollback installs; so if connection is interrupted or something happens during OTA, it bricks the control unit. Massive oversight if it's the case, but would make sense seeing as how they completely dropped OTA and any mention of it in newer cars (macan EV)

 

[whitex]

Assuming they actually care, which they don't, and develop a proper working infrastructure for OTA, they could enable it, since the hardware is there, Tesla style... or Tesla promises style.

But probably not. I suspect the car does not have any sort of way to rollback installs; so if connection is interrupted or something happens during OTA, it bricks the control unit. Massive oversight if it's the case, but would make sense seeing as how they completely dropped OTA and any mention of it in newer cars (macan EV)

I worked on automotive OTA. If done right, it looks simple, like your your Apple or Google device update. However, system level OTA is a very complex topic, including things like you mentioned like ability to roll back if something fails. There is also security in the mix (which sometimes prevents rollbacks), and of course safety (you don't want a computer being updated suddenly open your trunk or windows by accident (or worse, apply full power to the motors). I suspect OTA was an afterthought for Porsche, they threw in some hardware the assumed they can just hire some interns to do the software for it. OTA and power management are often afterthoughts because it's not something project management has much clue about, but it seems like can be done quickly and easily.

PS> Porsche has dedicated, decently powered dual core ARM SoC in the OTA module, and another automotive microcontroller to go with it. Basically an equivalent of a tablet, just without a screen, but with lots of connections to various onboard buses. Here is what the OTA module looks like inside:

Sorry, for some reason I didn't take pictures of the whole board after I cleaned up the thermal goo, but here is the cleaned up SoC+EMMC+RAM (in case you were curious exactly what they used):

 

[Gino]

FYI - Additional follow-up from PCNA says the new battery will not have an 8 year warranty. The warranty term will stay the same as the original battery. So for me that means less than 5 years warranty on the brand new battery they are putting in the car.

Questions I asked and the responses I got back...

1. Can someone check and get an estimate on how much longer the battery cell replacement will take? I will gather this information and advise you asap.
2. Are there any creative compensation options for the costs I have incurred during this repair process? Regretfully, PCNA does not provide compensation for recalls. I apologize.
3. Will my battery warranty be extended past the original 8 years with this recall? The new battery is included in the current vehicle warranties. Your HV battery warranty is valid through 8/23/29.
4. During this recall process I have received the ARB0 recall, will that be a lengthy repair as well? Is your Porsche dealership completing all campaigns while your vehicle is there? I will research the campaign duration and advise asap.

I realize if Porsche has to replace your main battery under warranty you are still under the same remaining battery warranty of 8 years. My question is: What is the warranty of a new main battery after the 8 year warranty expires and you must pay for the battery replacement? Do all fully paid battery replacements come with an 8 year 100K mile warranty? I surely hope so.

 

[whitex]

Do all fully paid battery replacements come with an 8 year 100K mile warranty? I surely hope so.

Maybe, but not a given. Very often new cars will come with 4 year warranty, but individual parts (such as an onboard computer), which you buy after the original warranty expires, only come with 2 years warranty. So I'd definitely ask when buying a replacement battery, rather than assume.

 

[GoDucksYellO]

I realize if Porsche has to replace your main battery under warranty you are still under the same remaining battery warranty of 8 years. My question is: What is the warranty of a new main battery after the 8 year warranty expires and you must pay for the battery replacement? Do all fully paid battery replacements come with an 8 year 100K mile warranty? I surely hope so.

I have been without the car for 3 months due to a defect in the manufacturing. I should have the warranty extended 3 months at the minimum in my opinion. Considering I also had to pay insurance premiums on the car during those 3 months I couldn't use it I just feel they aren't doing enough to keep me as a returning customer. This is my 5th EV, the most expensive and the most recalled. Not the experience I was expecting when paying a premium. The car is amazing to drive, but the time to resolve recalls is unacceptable.

 

[whitex]

I have been without the car for 3 months due to a defect in the manufacturing. I should have the warranty extended 3 months at the minimum in my opinion. Considering I also had to pay insurance premiums on the car during those 3 months I couldn't use it I just feel they aren't doing enough to keep me as a returning customer. This is my 5th EV, the most expensive and the most recalled. Not the experience I was expecting when paying a premium. The car is amazing to drive, but the time to resolve recalls is unacceptable.

You forgot depreciation and interest on the value of the car.

 

[snstevens]

This detour is getting detoured; I put on a fair number of miles on my 911 this summer (996, of the same age your old 911 would be now) - going to and from various track events in WA and OR. Once you get past the horrible noise, it's a very comfortable car: perfect driving position, great 360* visibility, primitive equipment makes for no distractions, and it sips fuel (300+ miles of range from a standard tank). I have a BT radio transceiver and so can even listen to music - I know the songs already, so whatever fidelity escapes the tire and engine noise is just spot-on. As I said, the damn Taycan can't tow (and I'd have to stop and charge every 5mi/min), and once at the track there just isn't any contest: the Elf can lap all day with a tank of gas, whereas the Taycan may well run out of tires before the battery boils. @bsclywilly has taken his out on the track, and may have a different perspective.

My Taycan is going to its first trackish event next weekend, for the PCA PNWR season ender. If anyone here will be in attendance, or is interested in impressions, DM me.

Can't make it but I'm sure you'll have a blast. Got to drive a Taycan 4s at PECLA along with the full range of 718 models (through GT4 RS) and the Taycan was an excellent track car. Needed to hit the brakes a bit sooner than in the RS (and of course nowhere near the same noise), but otherwise excellent acceleration and handling.

 

[Gino]

Maybe, but not a given. Very often new cars will come with 4 year warranty, but individual parts (such as an onboard computer), which you buy after the original warranty expires, only come with 2 years warranty. So I'd definitely ask when buying a replacement battery, rather than assume.

If Porsche charges $50K+ for a new battery it better not be 2 years. If it’s $20K or less then 2 years would be ok but I can’t imagine Porsche selling a new battery pack for that low a price.

 

[whitex]

If Porsche charges $50K+ for a new battery it better not be 2 years. If it’s $20K or less then 2 years would be ok but I can’t imagine Porsche selling a new battery pack for that low a price.

Tesla Model S replacement, refurb unit with trading old battery back, has been reported to sell at ~$12K with installation.

 

[Gino]

Tesla Model S replacement, refurb unit with trading old battery back, has been reported to sell at ~$12K with installation.

That’s a good sign. Tesla charged a model s customer uber driver $36K 2 years ago for replacing all 5 battery modules parts & labor. He had exceeded the miles warranty. He was over 300K miles when he had the modules replaced. I think the Tesla warranty is up to 150K miles but not sure how many years. It should be at least 8.
Battery prices have to come down even for Porsche or they will begin to get the reputation as disposable vehicles which is not what Porsche/Audi/VW wants to get branded for.

 

[whitex]

I think the Tesla warranty is up to 150K miles but not sure how many years. It should be at least 8.

Depends on which Tesla and what year. Original Model S had 8 years unlimited mileage (and yes, there were people who took it past 300K miles in that time).

 

[snstevens]

I finally caught up on this thread and want to add a couple of thoughts.

• Random battery failures have happened to Taycan owners in the past. It seems from some of the posts on this thread that these failures may be related to the short-circuit issue, and that Porsche finally has enough data to get their arms around this.
• The recall is safety related to a "risk" that a short circuit can cause a fire. This is a risk due to a manufacturing issue with the battery packs, but like all risks it doesn't mean that everyone will experience this problem. There is also no way to understand (yet) how widespread the problem is. By upgrading the Battery Management System (BMS) Porsche will be able to quantify this last item
• To my knowledge there is no report of a Taycan battery fire initiated by a short circuit.
  • NOTE - Articles that discuss garage fires are inconclusive since a faulty wall plug may have been the cause of the fire.
• Related to the last point, the true impact of the potential battery short circuit on real customers is unknown (i.e., how many customers have actually had a battery short occur that started a fire).
• Porsche's approach to installing improved BMS software that can monitor for shorts sounds very reasonable, albeit slower to happen than I would like. The failure to have OTA system updates is really being felt here.
• There is no "Stop Driving" order in place, indicating that this is a low likelihood risk, not an imminent threat to safety.
  • 80% Limit - While I don't like the recommendation to charge only to 80% at home, I'm not upset about it. Seems like a modest reduction in range for a reduction in risk.
  • Long Distance Travel - I'm not worried about charging to over 80% at a High Speed charger while traveling. Might limit it to 90% though.

So no reason to panic here, and while there is a bit of inconvenience in the delay for the SW update, I'm not feeling any real impact. Of course, YMMV...

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