How much KWh performance battery plus charges at 80%?

[Chadyoon]

Obviously I am not very active in this group but hopefully I can get some help from you all. I have 2020 Taycan 4S with Performance plus battery. When I purchased CFO last September, I was so happy. Everything was better than expected - heard some glitches with PCM being a first electric car but very smooth and range over 230 miles at 85%. Long story short my nightmare started at Porsche North Austin after the uPdate which was done sometime December, 2022. My range dropped to 180 miles at 80% - which increased slightly after the battery recalibrated- Now 200 at 85%.

I took the car to the dealer shop to rectify the issue but they sad their scan shows nothing wrong so nothing they can do. Being a newer buyer, I decided not to stress over too much about 30-40 miles - also many people is saying what shows on the cluster is just a guess so don't pay attention to it much. - I still feel I lost actual 40 miles, though.

Then about 9 months passed. One day I have noticed my charger was showing the battery was charged only 65 kwh. I had 1% left in the battery that night and it charged up to 85%. That means my battery took only around 65kwh- to my knowledge. I feel like somehow the software is thinking my car battery size as 79kwh base rather than plus. I took the car to Porsche South, hoping they might do something more but they said exactly same thing - nothing shows with scan so nothing is wrong. Also when I showed 65KWh consumption photo to them they said its not what is doing on the battery but some sort of charging rate. I think this is a total BS but I want to ask you all about this.

How much KWh charges with your taycan? KWh showing on the mobile charge after complete the charging is not how much Khw is going into the battery?

Many thread talk a lot about miles but I don't think I read people discussing about KWh.

I am planning to charge my car at charging point from 1% to 100% soon and see how much KWh I actually use. I think that way it's obvious how much Kwh my battery is taking. I think it should take at least 90kwh - thinking of some degradation.

Any idea? or thought? Your help will be greatly appreciated. I am attaching some photos as well..

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[Archimedes]

That’s the charge rate, not your battery state of charge.

There’s nothing wrong with your car. Your driving style is likely different than the prior owner, so the guess o meter has recalibrated.

 

[TaycanCook]

Your car will definitely not take 90kw+ of electricity. Usable is about 83kwh. What explains the 20kwh difference? Likely degradation + the home was wrong. Get a obdii scanner and see how much capacity you actually have.

 

[W1NGE]

Obviously I am not very active in this group but hopefully I can get some help from you all. I have 2020 Taycan 4S with Performance plus battery. When I purchased CFO last September, I was so happy. Everything was better than expected - heard some glitches with PCM being a first electric car but very smooth and range over 230 miles at 85%. Long story short my nightmare started at Porsche North Austin after the uPdate which was done sometime December, 2022. My range dropped to 180 miles at 80% - which increased slightly after the battery recalibrated- Now 200 at 85%.

I took the car to the dealer shop to rectify the issue but they sad their scan shows nothing wrong so nothing they can do. Being a newer buyer, I decided not to stress over too much about 30-40 miles - also many people is saying what shows on the cluster is just a guess so don't pay attention to it much. - I still feel I lost actual 40 miles, though.

Then about 9 months passed. One day I have noticed my charger was showing the battery was charged only 65 kwh. I had 1% left in the battery that night and it charged up to 85%. That means my battery took only around 65kwh- to my knowledge. I feel like somehow the software is thinking my car battery size as 79kwh base rather than plus. I took the car to Porsche South, hoping they might do something more but they said exactly same thing - nothing shows with scan so nothing is wrong. Also when I showed 65KWh consumption photo to them they said its not what is doing on the battery but some sort of charging rate. I think this is a total BS but I want to ask you all about this.

How much KWh charges with your taycan? KWh showing on the mobile charge after complete the charging is not how much Khw is going into the battery?

Many thread talk a lot about miles but I don't think I read people discussing about KWh.

I am planning to charge my car at charging point from 1% to 100% soon and see how much KWh I actually use. I think that way it's obvious how much Kwh my battery is taking. I think it should take at least 90kwh - thinking of some degradation.

Any idea? or thought? Your help will be greatly appreciated. I am attaching some photos as well..

Apples and pears.

The 65 kWh in the photo has nothing to do with your battery and is simply the amount of energy used to charge your battery during that charging session.

All batteries have a net and gross capacity. For the PB+ 93.4kWh gross becomes 83kWh net useable.

The key metric to look at is your consumption miles / kW.

I don't think there is a problem here and keep in mind ambient temp, driving style, use of AC all impact range estimates.

 

[Tooney]

Apples and pears.

The 65 kWh in the photo has nothing to do with your battery and is simply the amount of energy used to charge your battery during that charging session.

All batteries have a net and gross capacity. For the PB+ 93.4kWh gross becomes 83kWh net useable.

The key metric to look at is your consumption miles / kW.

I don't think there is a problem here and keep in mind ambient temp, driving style, use of AC all impact range estimates.

I believe OP's point is that 65kwh was used to charge his car 84% (from 1% at start to 85% SoC at finish). That amount of energy translates to about 77 kwh at 100% battery capacity. If the 65kwh was the gross consumption supplied by the EVSE to charge the battery 84%, then why isn't it corresponding to a 100% capacity higher than 77 kwh?

I agree with your comment about miles per kwh being important, but OP is concerned about the capacity of the battery, not just the consumption rate.

 

[Jhenson29]

That’s the charge rate, not your battery state of charge.

It’s not the rate. It’s the energy. OP is thinking right there. But I assume it’s also the energy through the EVSE before losses, so likely even less in the actual battery.

In any case, OP is missing the total vs usable as @TaycanCook points out. Still seems on the low side.

 

[Scandinavian]

The key metric to look at is your consumption miles / kW.

Agree this would be a better indication of the efficiency of the drive train. However we have no insight into what consumption this figure really measures. Is it just drive train consumption. Other consumers like seat heaters included??

I had a very good and stable consumption figure during end of August. 19.5 kWh/100 km over several trips. No issues indicated at all from that value.

But the battery was drained by more than double that amount over a 110 km road trip. And the battery failed a few days later.

Tronity app catches the consumption differently and has shown me now that the actual consumption showed 39 kWh/100 km, which seems much closer to reality than Porsche figure. Two failed modules seem to have consumed a lot of power and not contributed at all.

 

[Scandinavian]

I believe OP's point is that 65kwh was used to charge his car 84% (from 1% at start to 85% SoC at finish). That amount of energy translates to about 77 kwh at 100% battery capacity. If the 65kwh was the gross consumption supplied by the EVSE to charge the battery 84%, then why isn't it corresponding to a 100% capacity higher than 77 kwh?

The principle OP is using is the correct way in my opinion. As you state he charges 84% and the PMCC reports 65.2 kWh (assuming that is correctly measured). And that would give 77 kWh less perhaps 10% losses in charging equipment and cables etc. So battery may hold just 70 kWh?
It would mean about a 16% degradation? (based on 83.6 kWh new usable). That does not sound totally incorrect but on the low side.
Best would be to use a OBD scanner and plot the mileage and SoH into @ciaranob excellent material.
https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/threads/baseline-for-hv-battery-soh-performance.12815/

 

[W1NGE]

I believe OP's point is that 65kwh was used to charge his car 84% (from 1% at start to 85% SoC at finish). That amount of energy translates to about 77 kwh at 100% battery capacity. If the 65kwh was the gross consumption supplied by the EVSE to charge the battery 84%, then why isn't it corresponding to a 100% capacity higher than 77 kwh?

I agree with your comment about miles per kwh being important, but OP is concerned about the capacity of the battery, not just the consumption rate.

Don't forget the losses too

 

[andb]

10% degradation means you now have 75kWh real capacity. Up to 10% losses means 0-100% should draw 82kWh from the grid.

 

[Chadyoon]

Apples and pears.

The 65 kWh in the photo has nothing to do with your battery and is simply the amount of energy used to charge your battery during that charging session.

All batteries have a net and gross capacity. For the PB+ 93.4kWh gross becomes 83kWh net useable.

The key metric to look at is your consumption miles / kW.

I don't think there is a problem here and keep in mind ambient temp, driving style, use of AC all impact range estimates.

Thank you so much for your information. My consumption shows with PCM is 26.8kwh / 100 Mile for total trip and today trip 36.5kwh/ 100mi.
With total trip info, shouldn't I get 300 miles with 79kwh ?
EV is complicated. I will go to Charing Point to charge my car from maybe 1% or 2 % all the way to 100%. How much Kwh should my car be charged and stop at 100%?

 

[Chadyoon]

10% degradation means you now have 75kWh real capacity. Up to 10% losses means 0-100% should draw 82kWh from the grid.

And from82kWh 85% of it is 69.7 kwh ? that is maybe what I see on the charger.
I can't imagine 2020 PB (not plus) need to work with only around 59 kwh after 3 years

 

[Archimedes]

Thank you so much for your information. My consumption shows with PCM is 26.8kwh / 100 Mile for total trip and today trip 36.5kwh/ 100mi.
With total trip info, shouldn't I get 300 miles with 79kwh ?

No, you will not get 300 miles of range. Is that your question?

Dude, just charge your car to 85%. Note your odometer reading. Drive it down to say 10%, check your odometer again. Take the miles traveled and divide it by the change in your state of charge, and voila, you have your range. Why are you trying to make it so difficult? It’s not rocket science.

And you can use the Porsche range estimator here as well.
https://www.porsche.com/uk/models/taycan/taycan-models/taycan/

 

[Chadyoon]

Sorry if you feel that way. I am just trying to find out why my taycan lost 30-40 miles overnight after the uPdate. That's all. How much range do you get?

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