What is your Taycan Range after X miles, Let's get some data

[ciaranob]

@RTH

Yep as he said - took a very quick terrible pic - it faces down to the floor on underside bolster below dash and over left knee:

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[RTH]

@RTH

Yep as he said - took a very quick terrible pic - it faces down to the floor on underside bolster below dash and over left knee:

Thanks!

 

[RTH]

Thanks!

@ciaranob , Got the OBDII. Great recommendation. Works like a charm with the iOS. But This is what I got. Can't make sense out of it. What is the SOH 85.85% here? Porsche state the usable capacity is 83.7%. What is this a percentage of? And what is the difference between SoCHR and SoC Display?

 

[tchavei]

@ciaranob , Got the OBDII. Great recommendation. Works like a charm with the iOS. But This is what I got. Can't make sense out of it. What is the SOH 85.85% here? Porsche state the usable capacity is 83.7%. What is this a percentage of? And what is the difference between SoCHR and SoC Display?

SoH = state of health. Battery degrades with time and usage. Apparently most degradation happens during the first year but the warranty should cover the battery if it falls below 70% before 160k km or 8 years what ever comes first

How many km do you have on your car?

 

[RTH]

SoH = state of health. Battery degrades with time and usage. Apparently most degradation happens during the first year but the warranty should cover the battery if it falls below 70% before 160k km or 8 years what ever comes first

How many km do you have on your car?

@tchavei 13013 miles. So the SoH here is that of 83.7kWh or of 93.4kWh?

 

[mandoyoda]

2021 RWD with PB+, almost 6k miles. Summer range is 307 to 313 miles. Averaging 3.8mi per kWh on longer trips.

 

[RTH]

SoH indicated by OBD is confusing. Can anyone enlighten me?

SoH as displayed on OBD 85.85%
SoC displayed 65.5%
Battery Energy (Available) 47.9 kWh
Calculations:
SoH from: Energy and SoC Data
100% SoH = 47.9kWh/65.5% = 73.13 kWh
But Porsche claims 100% SoH at delivery is 83.7 kWh

Battery Energy available from SoC displayed data
85.85% of SoH of 83.7 kWh as Porsche indicated = 85.85%X 83.7 kWh = 71.9 kWh
85.85% of SoH of 93.4 kWh = 85.85%X 93.4 kWh = 80.18 kWh.
Whereas OBD = 47.9 kWh

 

[Scandinavian]

@RTH , I do not fully understand what all the different values shown on the dashboard for the app really means either. But here is my line of thought and reasoning.

The SOC is that actual % age of what the battery can hold in energy, 0 = empty and 100% is full. Similar to what will be shown on a mobile phone. And my assumption is that the OBD reader only can get access to and see the available energy, ie at new battery 83.7kWh. The hidden energy is something the Porsche system BMS etc handles and is not viewable?

So in your case I would conclude that your battery is actual 47.9 kWh and SOC 65.5%, which would give a full 100% charged battery holding 73.12 kWh!

Now if you only have a max of 73.1 kWh out of 83.7 kWh, your battery state of health would give
73.1/83.7 = 87.3%

So your indicated SoH is slightly lower than this which might be corrected if you can do the following : (advise from my Service guy on my car)

• Drive the car to a low SOC, say 5% and plug directly to an AC EVSE of 7 to 11 kW
• Charge the car to 100% and when fully charged drive it again. Do not let the car sit too long at 100%. If you can drive it down to 20% or below
• plug in on AC and charge again to normal levels like 80%.
• Now read the values again.​

You may not have access to any good AC charge point since you seem to have charged at 150 kW all the time.

Would be interesting to hear if this made any difference in your case?

 

[ciaranob]

@RTH - Thx for sharing this.

Have been quite busy but apologies, late to respond - the key measure here is the SoH (State of Health) of your battery which indeed as Peter above others have said (and is explained in the first page to the Baseline SoH thread here #1 ) is a measure of the available battery energy i.e. so your SoH of 85.85% is 85.85% of your accessible 83.7 kW for the PB+.

So your current SoH suggests you have a max. of 71.86 kW i.e. 85.85% of 83.7kW.
A SoH of 100% at delivery would of course have been 83.7 kW available.
So you HV battery appears to have lost 14.15% of its range capacity in ca 13,000 miles.

Given your mileage that is a fairly significant SoH decline but there are indeed others in this category.

The SoC reading should match your PCM console display readout of your current SoC and is just that.

There are many other fields in the OBDII Dashboard that are anything but clear as to what is actually being measured (and as to how accurate a rea time measure it is), so straight off I would not trust that Battery Energy field to be exactly what you think it might be.

Let me post your data and follow up further later.

 

[ciaranob]

@RTH

OK, so your car unfortunately does appear to have the worst degradation we've seen to date!

Can you remind me - what again is the model and when exactly was your build i.e. I see it is a 2021 model year but was it built in 2020 or earliest 2021?

I ask as there is some evidence that early battery chemistries have caused more issues than later modified battery chemistries in the Taycan (more typically in Turbo and Turbo S models).

This variation may not be enough to imply continued rapid decline to the point where a warranty replacement is in order but it may mean that your particular battery vintage might see 5+% more degradation through it's life cycle than a late 2021 or younger battery.

This is entirely SPECULATION on my part but again as noted in the chart too, we do have some data to support issues with early battery chemistries and HV battery performance.

 

[ciaranob]

@RTH
One other suggestion would be to bring up the page in CarScanner when your OBDII plugged in for the battery ‘voltage cell map’ - would be very curious to see the status of your cells I.e. if there are any defective which would be good info to have if at some pt discussing the HV battery status/health.

I’ll find my example posted on the Baseline thread if needed and link here.

 

[RTH]

@ciaranob. Thanks for the feedback. My car is the 2021 RWD. It was delivered September 2021. How can I find out when it was built?

I would like some opinions on the following points:

1. I wonder if this significant loss of capacity was due to me charging at the 150kW EA Stations exclusively for the last 130000 miles. If the average loss at this mileage is around 91%, mine is 85.85%, so an extra loss of 5.15% or 4.3kWh at 14.15% Loss.
I live in a condo building and have finally found a way to install a charger. I wonder if I start using a Level 2 charger, I can preserve whatever I have.

2. BTW, the OBD displayed of the SoC is accurate as compared that on the car. Yet we cannot trust this data because it's "not clear as to what is actually being measured (and as to how accurate a real time measure it is)", do we know how the SoH is measured by the OBD?

3. The reason I am suspicious of this SoH by the OBD is my range hasn't really degraded that much. From the range point of calculation:
At 100% SoC.
Range @ Normal Mode Range Mode
249 AC Max 258
254 AC ECON 262
267 AC Off 276

SOH estimate 267mi/3.58mi/kWh = 267/3.58 = 74.58 kWh
SOH% 83.7-74.6=9.1kWh 74.6/83.7= 89%
Loss of 11% of Usable Capacity

4. Compared to the OBD Battery Energy
100% of SoH from these data= 47.9/0.655 = 73.13 kWh at 13013 mi
83.7-73.13 = 10.57 kWh loss which is 12.6% loss

5. Using another analysis based on the AMCI Real-world Range Test with this test parameter.. https://amcitesting.com/2021taycan/

"Specific to the AMCI Testing City/Highway Route: • Each Taycan vehicle was operated in Normal Mode with Regen set to “Auto” and HVAC to “Eco” • Driving was precisely coordinated at the speed of traffic up to and including the legal speed limit during city driving, and up to 5 MPH over the legal limit on highway"
Which is quite close to my driving conditions except I have the less aero-dynamic 20" Aero Turbo wheels---

At 100% SoC when SoH was 100%, the range at Normal Mode is 282mi
My PCM estimate at 100% SoC is 254mi
254/282 = Approx. 90%
So if I go with Range data which can be somewhat variable due to different conditions, I have only lost 10%

What gives?!

 

[RTH]

Another quandary:

If using the OBD Energy Available data, the Original SoH at deliver actually would be 85.2 kWh!
(47.9kWh/65.5%)/85.85%

So did Porsche actually made more tan 83.7 kWh usable?

 

[Scandinavian]

Another quandary:

If using the OBD Energy Available data, the Original SoH at deliver actually would be 85.2 kWh!
(47.9kWh/65.5%)/85.85%

So did Porsche actually made more tan 83.7 kWh usable?

That is a good point! There was a feeling last year, after the big update, that Porsche had released more capacity from the reserve ( 93kWh vs 83 kWh usable)! However today the official spec for PB+ battery still states 83.7 kWh usable.

I guess the best option you have is to ask the dealer for a status report on your battery!

But all of us that have used the same app and OBD reader should have had comparable results??

Your battery looks like it has one of worse than many of us.

 

[ciaranob]

@ciaranob. Thanks for the feedback. My car is the 2021 RWD. It was delivered September 2021. How can I find out when it was built?

I would like some opinions on the following points:

1. I wonder if this significant loss of capacity was due to me charging at the 150kW EA Stations exclusively for the last 130000 miles. If the average loss at this mileage is around 91%, mine is 85.85%, so an extra loss of 5.15% or 4.3kWh at 14.15% Loss.
I live in a condo building and have finally found a way to install a charger. I wonder if I start using a Level 2 charger, I can preserve whatever I have.

2. BTW, the OBD displayed of the SoC is accurate as compared that on the car. Yet we cannot trust this data because it's "not clear as to what is actually being measured (and as to how accurate a real time measure it is)", do we know how the SoH is measured by the OBD?

3. The reason I am suspicious of this SoH by the OBD is my range hasn't really degraded that much. From the range point of calculation:
At 100% SoC.
Range @ Normal Mode Range Mode
249 AC Max 258
254 AC ECON 262
267 AC Off 276

SOH estimate 267mi/3.58mi/kWh = 267/3.58 = 74.58 kWh
SOH% 83.7-74.6=9.1kWh 74.6/83.7= 89%
Loss of 11% of Usable Capacity

4. Compared to the OBD Battery Energy
100% of SoH from these data= 47.9/0.655 = 73.13 kWh at 13013 mi
83.7-73.13 = 10.57 kWh loss which is 12.6% loss

5. Using another analysis based on the AMCI Real-world Range Test with this test parameter.. https://amcitesting.com/2021taycan/

"Specific to the AMCI Testing City/Highway Route: • Each Taycan vehicle was operated in Normal Mode with Regen set to “Auto” and HVAC to “Eco” • Driving was precisely coordinated at the speed of traffic up to and including the legal speed limit during city driving, and up to 5 MPH over the legal limit on highway"
Which is quite close to my driving conditions except I have the less aero-dynamic 20" Aero Turbo wheels---

At 100% SoC when SoH was 100%, the range at Normal Mode is 282mi
My PCM estimate at 100% SoC is 254mi
254/282 = Approx. 90%
So if I go with Range data which can be somewhat variable due to different conditions, I have only lost 10%

What gives?!

Re your points above:

1. There are indeed studies (again links in my first post in the Baseline Thread) that clearly indicate extensive use of DC charging can have a more detrimental effect on SoH than if using lowered powered AC sources to charge yor car. So yes I would suspect perhaps some fraction of this 'higher' SoH degradation might be explained by this. And certainly if you can overnight ‘slow’ charge with AC I would def advise to avail of that point forward.
2. You have mis-interepreted my comments here - the specific SoC and SoH fields we referred to in the CarScaner App profile for the Taycan are known to be reading the correct info from our Taycans - very consistent. My statement of ‘uncertainlty in resepct some other fields’ in the OBDII output dashboard (again aspecific to CarScanner) is just that - these other outputs need to be validated as to what they are actually recording and outputting. There has been some discussion on this but I am not aware of anyone going through them methodically as yet - hence why I would be hesitant to over rely on the 'Battery Energy' factor in this dashboard until confirmed as to what that actually is!
3. Your SoH reading I susepct is in fact correct - at the very least every other member that has read the same field in the CarScanner Dashboard output for their Taycan has used this same record location/output and thus from even a simple comparative perspective this would still mark your reading as unusually low. It will certainly help to get additional readings and to @Scandinavian 's point in how to take some of these readings (based on some observed patterns in HV battery behaviour) - good advice.

The point re the PCM’s ‘Guessometer’ and predicted range and using that to back calculate SoH is likely less reliable/consistent imo (compared to a direct measurement). Value estimates of driving range are much more of a moving target, being dependent on ambient temperatures/climate and a whole host of other criteria which the PCM algorithim uses to calcuate a ‘best guess’ of range (typically also of course based on your most recent driving style/trip records).

My own tracking of near 100% AC charging and resultant recording of ‘estimated’ max. range with AC off in Normal and Range driving modes shows very significant variation between Winter and Summer months and even more so when I departed from ‘typically’ conservative driving styles.

Example: My data for PCM 'predicted' ranges over 1.5 years - apologies need to edit the time as shifted a bit on last input but you get the idea!

In summary I’d personally put more weight on the actual SoH reading reported by the OBDII tool - we also know this can vary by typically 1% to perhaps a max. of 2% (a separate discussion in regards whether charging to 100% and other related HV battery ‘behavior's’) but that otherwise seems consistent and something that is equally reported by all 50 cars.

Estimations utilising other less sepcific metrics like ‘predicted ranges’ will be less accurate and have higher variabilty and more often than not will simply confuse things.

My 2c!

PS: if indeed your predicted ranges are not changing that might still be odd (be careful here to compare apples to apples e.g. data from same ambient temps and other factors vs a winter to summer comparison etc).

PPS: If not in your documentation (did yo not order from factory or did you buy off the lot?) then your dealer should tell you but if memory serves your VIN has this data embedded - forget off top of my head how to decode that but someone here surely knows.

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