What would a battery swap cost?

[B61]

Wonder if we'll see aftermarket battery upgrades if we see significant leaps in the next 3-5 years. Theoretically everything in the taycan should stand the test of time pretty well, and compared to ICE engines, the battery pack is pretty simple in its mechanical integration. If the thing falls out of warranty, or I could pay 20-30k and have 500 miles and sub 10 minute charging, I'd pay it.

#metoo

Sponsored

 

[B61]

Someone, somewhere, will keep the taycan forever and make an classic out of it. After all, it's Porsche's first EV right?

I suspect (hope) that solid state batteries will become production mature and with time become even more awesome. Who knows? By 2033, Porsche (or some third party vendor) might sell a drop-in solid state conversion battery pack to put into the "Iconic Porsche's first EV" because, as Porsche advertise themselves "70% of all Porsches ever made are still on the road". Hopefully the Taycan will be no exception.

It’s not the question about new battery; it’s quite independent part of the EV.
The question is “motherboard” and availability of other chips…and software backward compatibility .

 

[Dee]

By 2033, Porsche (or some third party vendor) might sell a drop-in solid state conversion battery pack to put into the "Iconic Porsche's first EV"

Or graphene/nano tech?
Can you imagine, a 761hp Taycan that's 400kg lighter?
Can't wait!!

 

[tchavei]

Or graphene/nano tech?
Can you imagine, a 761hp Taycan that's 400kg lighter?
Can't wait!!

It will be marvelous. 30 sec charge, 1000km range, all in a classic taycan

Maybe not... Would need a lot more than just battery... Charger, software, several hardware bits I suppose. Oh well. Someone gonna do it when the time comes. I'm sure.

 

[ben1]

I know the Tesla model S prices. It should be similar for the Taycan.

A battery failure does not mean that the whole battery is broken. So they do not replace the entire battery. They replace modules.
A module costs about 5000 euro for a model S. I assume it will be similar in the Taycan. It is also made of several independent modules.

Now, in practice they do remove the whole battery. And you get a whole new refurbished battery of similar size.
After you get that refurbished battery, your old battery will be refurbished by replacing the broken modules.
It is done like that because it requires special tools, not available on site in the garage.

For a model is, another 4000 to 5000 euro is counted for working hours.
So in total it is about 9000 to 10000 euros to fix the battery.

I expect that this cost will go down in the coming years as more and more shops will have the skills to do this and there will be an increase in refurbished batteries.

To me this sounds reasonable. A serious problem in an ICE engine, like a broken clutch, gearbox or engine leaks, can also easily go up to 10000 euro.

 

[OTPSkipper]

By 2033, Porsche (or some third party vendor) might sell a drop-in solid state conversion battery pack to put into the "Iconic Porsche's first EV"

I don’t know about 3rd party being able to change the battery type. Porsche yes, 3rd party no. The problem is the security you have to build into such an electronics heavy car. To do over the air updates, you need to use a technology called “secure boot” on your embedded processors. This means that the code run by these processors has to be cryptographically signed by Porsche to run on the car. It’s the way you keep hackers out. Or at least slow them down. It means it will be very hard to reprogram the charging and discharging process for the new battery unless you are Porsche.

Without secure boot, it would be easy to hack all that software. We would have after market tweaks already available. The lack of them is very telling. You would also have attacks and ransom ware. Basically, Porsche would not be able to control the quality any more.

maybe a whole system can be replaced and the car still works. But that is a much higher barrier to entry (more expensive to develop). There are ways for Porsche to prevent that too.

now maybe quantum computing will come along and allow those cryptographic keys to be broken by a third party. Maybe Porsche messed up and their keys are discovered another way.

it is going to be interesting to see how this all rolls out.

 

[OTPSkipper]

To me this sounds reasonable. A serious problem in an ICE engine, like a broken clutch, gearbox or engine leaks, can also easily go up to 10000 euro.

This is where I am m coming from.

 

[tchavei]

I don’t know about 3rd party being able to change the battery type. Porsche yes, 3rd party no. The problem is the security you have to build into such an electronics heavy car. To do over the air updates, you need to use a technology called “secure boot” on your embedded processors. This means that the code run by these processors has to be cryptographically signed by Porsche to run on the car. It’s the way you keep hackers out. Or at least slow them down. It means it will be very hard to reprogram the charging and discharging process for the new battery unless you are Porsche.

Without secure boot, it would be easy to hack all that software. We would have after market tweaks already available. The lack of them is very telling. You would also have attacks and ransom ware. Basically, Porsche would not be able to control the quality any more.

maybe a whole system can be replaced and the car still works. But that is a much higher barrier to entry (more expensive to develop). There are ways for Porsche to prevent that too.

now maybe quantum computing will come along and allow those cryptographic keys to be broken by a third party. Maybe Porsche messed up and their keys are discovered another way.

it is going to be interesting to see how this all rolls out.

I'm waiting for a Magisk rooted Taycan any day now ?

 

[OTPSkipper]

I'm waiting for a Magisk rooted Taycan any day now ?

Yes that would be great! But I don’t think the Taycan Is quite that organized.

 

[tutis]

if you plan on keeping the Taycan beyond factory warranty, then I suggest you budget for OEM factory warranty extension., probably $3k per year. Good news is that the battery is warrantied for 8 years (IIRC), so first 8 years should be costless.

All of this assumes you are happy with a battery having more than 70% remaining capacity (that's what the factory warranty covers IIRC), below that they'll start swapping modules to get you just above the threshold; don't count on getting a brand new battery that will get you back to 100%...

 

[tchavei]

if you plan on keeping the Taycan beyond factory warranty, then I suggest you budget for OEM factory warranty extension., probably $3k per year. Good news is that the battery is warrantied for 8 years (IIRC), so first 8 years should be costless.

All of this assumes you are happy with a battery having more than 70% remaining capacity (that's what the factory warranty covers IIRC), below that they'll start swapping modules to get you just above the threshold; don't count on getting a brand new battery that will get you back to 100%...

Don't know. Is the taycan even classic material or will it fade into extinction? I don' know. As a classic it might be worth to hang on it forever. If not... Trade after 8 years.

 

[SergeyIndy]

My dealer has a special lift, transport enclosure for removed battery, and process for replacement as they have done at least one of them. I casually asked about the cost for a swap and they said $70K but did not specify if this is all in or just cost of battery.

 

[OTPSkipper]

$70K

Yikes. That’s a car killing price.

 

[XLR82XS]

Someone, somewhere, will keep the taycan forever and make an classic out of it. After all, it's Porsche's first EV right?

Technically, no? 1898 Egger-Lohner C.2 Phaeton, erronously called Porsche P1, is an electric vehicle built by Egger-Lohner. It is the first vehicle that Ferdinand Porsche contributed to.

 

[WasserGKuehlt]

now maybe quantum computing will come along and allow those cryptographic keys to be broken by a third party. Maybe Porsche messed up and their keys are discovered another way.

Nah, just need to add my signing key somewhere*. ;-) Though it'd be interesting to learn whether the integrity of individual components is/can be measured - and at what level (ie is it the full batt pack, or individual modules etc.)

*That's the hard part, figuring out where and how the trust anchors are managed. Somewhere there's always a cert.

Sponsored