If you can buy power

[Jhenson29]

Isn't the RWD's standing start acceleration limited by traction (lacking AWD) rather than power, so extra power wouldn't be as effective in improving 0-60 time as it would in improving the usual rolling acceleration metrics?

There are RWD ICE vehicle’s with much faster 0-60 times though. Dodge Challenger Hellcat comes to mind. It’s a heavy car too, only around 150lbs (68kg) lighter than the Taycan RWD. So, I think there’s potential there.

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[Jhenson29]

Agree....
But maybe also the immediate start is limited to maintain traction in slippery conditions?

It seems like that should be handled by traction control; not implemented as a general limitation.

 

[WuffvonTrips]

There are RWD ICE vehicle’s with much faster 0-60 times though. Dodge Challenger Hellcat comes to mind. It’s a heavy car too, only around 150lbs (68kg) lighter than the Taycan RWD. So, I think there’s potential there.

Doubling the Taycan RWD's power to match the Dodge's 800bhp would be enough to compensate for lack of traction for the 1st second off the line, but I don't think it would fit Porsche's philosophy of sophisticated efficiency and it certainly wouldn't fit the Taycan lineup . Perhaps the 911 GT3 or Sport Classic indicate that around 4.0s 0-60 could be expected from a "GT" Taycan RWD, but I think there are more suitable candidate Porsche EV's than the Taycan for such an offering.

 

[Jhenson29]

Doubling the Taycan RWD's power to match the Dodge's 800bhp would be enough to compensate for lack of traction for the 1st second off the line, but I don't think it would fit Porsche's philosophy of sophisticated efficiency and it certainly wouldn't fit the Taycan lineup . Perhaps the 911 GT3 or Sport Classic indicate that around 4.0s 0-60 could be expected from a "GT" Taycan RWD, but I think there are more suitable candidate Porsche EV's than the Taycan for such an offering.

I was looking for something with a similar weight as an example, and that was the first thing that came to mind.

Regardless, the point is that the base Taycan is likely not at the HP limit for its RWD setup, anymore than a 4S is at its HP limit for an AWD setup (given the Turbo and Turbo S…).

 

[WuffvonTrips]

...
Regardless, the point is that the base Taycan is likely not at the HP limit for its RWD setup, anymore than a 4S is at its HP limit for an AWD setup (given the Turbo and Turbo S…).

Doesn't the RWD have the same motor and max outputs (with and without launch) as the Turbo and Turbo S? (The Turbo S's overall power gain over the Turbo coming from its front motor and inverter. The 4S has a lower max rear output than all other variants.)

 

[taycan_sportturismo]

There has been some debate about this. Because the weight/acceleration models do not add up. I haven’t heard any reports of the RWD version having any sort of traction loss issues unless you were trying to lose traction. I suspect the acceleration is only a software limit to entice people to go for the more expensive 4S. I am not the only one who thinks that to be true. Another thing is as some has pointed out in the past, RWD with PBP should have more power due to battery. I understand that the battery has increased weight but the amount of power vs weight doesn’t make sense here. Also, the 80-120 is awfully close to the 4S; which tells me that the RWD motor is perfectly capable, but feels locked away for the 0-60. Even during normal use, after 30 mph, it feels incredible fast, just the 0-30 is a lot slower. I may be very stupid and all wrong but it doesn’t seem like I am alone in tthinking that the base model is restricted for marketing reasons.
Don’t get me wrong, I love my base Taycan and honestly chose this over the 4S, but I just am really curious to if software limitation really is the reason here or is a future paid software unlock possible.

I am very excited for someone to actually get behind the scenes of a Taycan and tune it for real! (Motor thermal & hardware limitations allowing). I suspect you'd have to start with CAN-bus messages to understand how components of the car communicate, then understand where applicable look-up tables/running parameters are stored, how to change their values for the desired effect, and apply those changes without bricking everything.

On a related note, does anyone know what dealer applications are used to program/configure Taycans? For reference, the BMW ecosystem uses stuff like E-SYS, Rheingold, and ISTA. We also have BMW TIS (RIP newTIS.info) for accessing official BMW service documents.

 

[McgR]

I have a 4 CT. On my daily commute I don’t need the extra power and don’t see where I could use it.

I am on holidays now. I have done 600 km highway trips with a roof box and fully loaded. It doesn’t make any sense driving more than 140 Km/h. Range drops quickly and travel time increases with an extra charge. The occasional sprint leaving a toll booth is still very fast.

Last couple of days I have done two Swiss mountain passes > 2000 Km high. I don’t see where I would need the extra power. I could follow the RS 6’s around me. I was happy with rear wheel steering in the hairpins. And sport - sport plus makes sense here. The lower centre of gravity and stiffer dampers do make a diffenrce. Even with the 4CT accelerating up hill is fast. Tbh pushing it harder would be out of my comfort zone.

Maybe for 5K I would do a FOD power increase from 4 to 4S just for the fun of it. Er even better a 3 months free trial to see if it really makes a difference. And purchase per month. But not for the 20K it is now.

 

[Archimedes]

The idea that the 4S is underpowered in any situation is laughable. It’s supercar fast.

 

[Jhenson29]

Doesn't the RWD have the same motor and max outputs (with and without launch) as the Turbo and Turbo S? (The Turbo S's overall power gain over the Turbo coming from its front motor and inverter. The 4S has a lower max rear output than all other variants.)

Sorry; I probably wasn’t as clear as I could have been. But the motor sizes are irrelevant to my point. My point was more that the existence of a similar car with higher HP and lower 0-60 suggests the smaller power car has room for more power.

In really simple terms, for a car to reach 60mph, it has to gain a specific amount of kinetic energy, equal to mass times velocity squared. To do so in a specific amount of time means it gained that energy at some average rate, which would be the average power*. That power has to be transferred through the wheels.

When looking at the 4S, we can safely conclude that it’s AWD traction is not at its power limit because there exist other similar cars with higher power outputs.

Similarly, I think it’s unlikely the RWD is at its power limit because there exist other RWD cars that must have a higher average power output to 60mph due to the reduced time it takes them to reach 60mph.

Hellcat was just an example because it’s similar in weight so it’s easier to think about. Even better that it’s front engine and RWD traction suffers. 911, being rear engine, probably has better traction and is a worse comparison.

There are of course other differences and I’m not suggesting all RWD can be compared together equally, but the differences in 0-60 are stark enough IMO that I think it’s unlikely that being RWD is the limiting factor.

And none of this is to say that I particularly care or want to increase power. Just making comments.

*Instantaneous power could be higher or lower at any given time.

 

[JimBob]

Short video on tuning electric cars from Engineering Explained.



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Porsche has probably overbuilt the Taycan, so you could probably get some increased power through software. After that you would have to start replacing hardware.

But it would be at a cost. More heat that needs to be removed and reduced range.

 

[Stoneageman]

Also I don’t know if anyone came from Tesla but I had a Dual Motor M3, and that car allowed you to buy acceleration boost and activate OTA. That is why I feel like Porsche has the possibility to do the same thing.

 

[Jhenson29]

That is why I feel like Porsche has the possibility to do the same thing.

One manufacturer having that capability doesn’t necessarily say anything about another. It would depend on whether or not the hardware has any capacity left.

Pretty much the only software change to get more power out of the existing hardware is to allow more current. As @JimBob said, this will increase heat. Porsche would know whether or not that’s possible.

 

[Stoneageman]

One manufacturer having that capability doesn’t necessarily say anything about another. It would depend on whether or not the hardware has any capacity left.

Pretty much the only software change to get more power out of the existing hardware is to allow more current. As @JimBob said, this will increase heat. Porsche would know whether or not that’s possible.

I agree and only Porsche would know but if it is a software limitation, it seems like it would be possible. I say that because Porsche battery seems to have a better management of cooling and heating dynamics due to the ability to handle a more rapid charge as compared to Tesla. I don’t think the motor is at is maximum capacity so that is why I think there is room there if they want to charge people for it. It will be at a sacrifice of range but obviously if range is all you want, you already have range mode. If the battery could handle that rapid charge and cool effectively, it should be able to handle a minor speed boost of maybe .5 seconds.

 

[JimBob]

I say that because Porsche battery seems to have a better management of cooling and heating dynamics due to the ability to handle a more rapid charge as compared to Tesla.

I don't think this is the case. Porsche's more rapid charging is due to the 800v architecture plus active cooling/heating. As to cooling, Porsche puts the cooling line on the bottom of the battery pack while Tesla puts theirs in the pack. Porsche has lots of room for improvement in future iterations.

 

[Stoneageman]

I don't think this is the case. Porsche's more rapid charging is due to the 800v architecture plus active cooling/heating. As to cooling, Porsche puts the cooling line on the bottom of the battery pack while Tesla puts there's in the pack. Porsche has lots of room for improvement in future iterations.

That is true… I guess only a Porsche engineer would know for sure. At least it’s good to know that Taycans keep their value decently well so in a few years when technology gets better, it will be an easy upgrade.

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