Infrastructure Bill passed. I don’t think this is good.

[swag]

Rich people are rich because they live like they are poor. Poor people are poor because they try to live like they are rich. And yes, I want my $7,500.00 tax credit, it made the deal a good deal in my state of mind. Also, the lovely state of NJ does not charge sales tax on the sale of EV’s. One small benefit for living in this damn state.

Make sense, but will not having $7500 incentives stop a person purchase a car around $150k ?

Sponsored

 

[Hirschaj]

I reached out to my SA today about this. He had no idea this was happening. Seems like another example of stellar communication within the Porsche network.

 

[fgwinn]

I don't think a bill passed into law in 2022 can retroactively affect IRS tax return filing policy that same year unless its explicitly stated in the language of the bill. These major policy changes usually go into effect the beginning of the next fiscal year, otherwise there is a domino effect of fucking up EVERYONE's (both personal and corporate) tax management plans for the year and that kind of stuff would seriously blowback to the law makers in Washington in a way they worry about losing those people's support come next election season.

The bill does not retroactively change the rules for transactions that took place prior to enactment (date signed). But it does change the rules for all transactions occurring after the bill is signed, which is at most a couple of days from now. The only way to get the credit on a Taycan after the bill is signed is to have a "written binding contract to purchase" in place prior to the date of enactment.

 

[whitex]

Make sense, but will not having $7500 incentives stop a person purchase a car around $150k ?

I know it's hard for some people to image, but yes. I have personally observed back in the days where Tesla only had Model S available, the $7,500 and other incentives made the difference whether to buy the $100K car or not. It helps offset risks of going with new, unproven technology, as well as provide an incentive to try something different. Think going to a restaurant and knowing there you can order your favorite dish, or you can try something new for about the same price. A lot of people will go for the known favorite dish, unless you incentivize them, say give them free dessert if they try the new dish. ICE cars have been around for decades, we understand relatively well how long they last, how they depreciate, etc. EV's are still a gable, and for a lot of people they need a push. 100% honest truth, it is very likely that if it wasn't for the incentives, I would have never switched to EV's, and I started with $100K Model S - incentives helped me justify the risk in my mind. Once I did, I was hooked on EV's, though still incentives helped motivate me to buy more, which in turn put some used EV's on the market for people who cannot afford a new one. I know if you're making $30K a year, it might seem like anyone who makes $150K has money to throw around, but I assure that is not the case. People who make more money actually tend to be extra careful with their money, as counter intuitive it might sound.

 

[LXSC]

looks like its for vehicles placed in service after december 31, 2022. but its all legalese to me...

the transition period is the most confusing, if anyone could help clarify, it would be great! my car is between the port and the dealership, seems like i should go fast just in case

EV credit is around page 366 +/-

https://www.democrats.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/inflation_reduction_act_of_2022.pdf

 

[LXSC]

Yes - I too checked with my accountants and the only thing which would prevent us getting the $7.5K is if one exceeds annual taxable income of $300K !

 

[diegomedinaf]

Yes - I too checked with my accountants and the only thing which would prevent us getting the $7.5K is if one exceeds annual taxable income of $300K !

Which at 300K+ who gives a sh*t about the incentives............

 

[diegomedinaf]

I am making my mind available to lose the incentive, i dont think it will stop me to get the car whenever it arrives.. its built sitting in germany for a ship...... from 8/28 to 9/16 jumped to 12/2 delivery

 

[TDinDC]

Rich people are rich because they live like they are poor. Poor people are poor because they try to live like they are rich.

I'm not sure I think this is true (and I'm not being aggressive or trying to win the Internet). Don't get me wrong. I work very hard. It's extremely comforting to think that I have all that I have because I have earned it because I work so hard and I'm so intelligent. But with each passing year, I am more convinced that this is not really true (of course, I, like most of us, knew everything when I was 18, and yet with each passing year I relate more and more to John Snow in that I realize that "I know nothing").

Now, I think it is much more like something from a Tolstoy novel. In a riff of his line that "“Happy families are all alike; every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way”, I think that the wealthy are all alike, and the poor are all poor in their own way. Specifically, as I write this from Auberge du Soleil, I think that the wealthy all have a great deal of luck in common. No matter how hard we work, we all have luck in that we either caught multiple breaks in life, whether it be that we had someone looking out for us, came from a wealthy family (or even just a loving family), got a good education, or whatever. It can't just be hard work, because there are millions of poor who work as hard or harder than we do, or had great ideas that didn't stick or just had a bad break or bad timing, or just didn't know how to work the system, or didn't know how to make the most of their talents, or just didn't have connections, or experienced tragedies like war, bad health, or other practically unimaginable events. What's more, it's actually extremely expensive to be poor, and very cheap to be rich. If you are wealthy, you get opportunities to invest pre-IPO, while if you are poor, you can only buy on the market. If you are poor, good luck in getting decent financing for anything. If you are wealthy, bankers will fall all over themselves to give you a better deal, lower rates, etc. Don't get me wrong, I'm a capitalist and wouldn't trade my position for anything (and I work hard). I just think that my Taycan and all of the other blessings in my life have as much to do with luck (or blessings from God) as anything that I could have done myself. I'm not selling any change (I'm not political or partisan or fanatical), but I think there is a very thin line of luck/blessings that separates my life from those who could never dream of living the way I do. Don't get me wrong, I'm no saint. I just think that every time I get behind the wheel of my Taycan, I consider myself to be so very, very lucky, particularly when I consider that I could just as easily be in Syria or any number of countries where very great people who are well educated and hard working are still worrying about their next meal or the safety of their family. Honestly, how will we all justify our lives if asked by Saint Peter (or whatever equivalent you may believe in or not) about our choices? In any event, may we all continue to be lucky enough to debate things that don't really matter on the Internet.

 

[whitex]

I'm not sure I think this is true (and I'm not being aggressive or trying to win the Internet). Don't get me wrong. I work very hard. It's extremely comforting to think that I have all that I have because I have earned it because I work so hard and I'm so intelligent. But with each passing year, I am more convinced that this is not really true (of course, I, like most of us, knew everything when I was 18, and yet with each passing year I relate more and more to John Snow in that I realize that "I know nothing").

Now, I think it is much more like something from a Tolstoy novel. In a riff of his line that "“Happy families are all alike; every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way”, I think that the wealthy are all alike, and the poor are all poor in their own way. Specifically, as I write this from Auberge du Soleil, I think that the wealthy all have a great deal of luck in common. No matter how hard we work, we all have luck in that we either caught multiple breaks in life, whether it be that we had someone looking out for us, came from a wealthy family (or even just a loving family), got a good education, or whatever. It can't just be hard work, because there are millions of poor who work as hard or harder than we do, or had great ideas that didn't stick or just had a bad break or bad timing, or just didn't know how to work the system, or didn't know how to make the most of their talents, or just didn't have connections, or experienced tragedies like war, bad health, or other practically unimaginable events. What's more, it's actually extremely expensive to be poor, and very cheap to be rich. If you are wealthy, you get opportunities to invest pre-IPO, while if you are poor, you can only buy on the market. If you are poor, good luck in getting decent financing for anything. If you are wealthy, bankers will fall all over themselves to give you a better deal, lower rates, etc. Don't get me wrong, I'm a capitalist and wouldn't trade my position for anything (and I work hard). I just think that my Taycan and all of the other blessings in my life have as much to do with luck (or blessings from God) as anything that I could have done myself. I'm not selling any change (I'm not political or partisan or fanatical), but I think there is a very thin line of luck/blessings that separates my life from those who could never dream of living the way I do. Don't get me wrong, I'm no saint. I just think that every time I get behind the wheel of my Taycan, I consider myself to be so very, very lucky, particularly when I consider that I could just as easily be in Syria or any number of countries where very great people who are well educated and hard working are still worrying about their next meal or the safety of their family. Honestly, how will we all justify our lives if asked by Saint Peter (or whatever equivalent you may believe in or not) about our choices? In any event, may we all continue to be lucky enough to debate things that don't really matter on the Internet.

I think people like to think too much in black and white, with no shades of grey. The world is not that binary. Having talent and working hard do not guarantee you success, however it significantly increases your chances of success. So while not every hard working talented person will make it rich, more of them will than lazy untalented people. Further more, hard work is a bigger factor than talent, a hard working average person has a higher chance of success than a lazy genius. All of this is statistical chance, meaning that yes, there will be some talented, hard working people who are poor, and some lazy not so bright people who strike it rich (win the lottery perhaps), but in the end, statistically speaking, there will be more hard working people striking it rich than lazy people.

So yes, every successful person caught some breaks along the way, but it doesn't mean that was the sole reason for their success. If Bill Gates was born to a poor villager in Africa, he most likely would not have been one of the richest people in the world. Furthermore, even many people in similar situation to Gates who did almost exactly what Gates did (dropped out of Harvard, started businesses of their own), did not become billionaires like Gates, who happen to be all - hard working, smart, and lucky.

So yes, there is luck involved in every success, but hey, anyone who is still alive today could be considered lucky by simply beating the chances of dying from COVID or other diseases, car accidents, lightening strikes, natural disasters, crime, etc. Elon Musk got lucky he didn't die during one of his flights in a junkyard Russian jets he used to fly too - if he died, we'd have no Tesla, and probably no Taycan, so we all got lucky he lived long enough to do Tesla?

 

[TDinDC]

.

So yes, every successful person caught some breaks along the way, but it doesn't mean that was the sole reason for their success.

Yes, I agree, but just to be clear, I was saying only that the wealthy all have luck in common, not that luck is the sole reason for wealth.

By the way, last night’s moment of moral clarity was sponsored by these. I’m just glad that my reaction to liquid courage is deep laughter, slaps on the backs of friends and family to tell them how lucky I am to have them in my life rather than developing Tourette like symptoms and thinking I am suddenly Mike Tyson.

And back on topic, I hear that several states may be adopting their own EV and solar incentives. This may particularly be true if the new federal incentives prove to be popular, or if states are seeking to ease weaknesses in infrastructure/distribution.

 

[whitex]

Yes, I agree, but just to be clear, I was saying only that the wealthy all have luck in common, not that luck is the sole reason for wealth.

All people have luck in common. Even a poor people in the USA are much better off than poor people in third world country. Your entire life is a series of events, all of which have a probabilities of opportunity, success, and failure. "luck" is a relative term and doesn't have precise definition, just like "rich". Most people define "rich" as someone who has significantly more wealth than they do, which means there is no consistent definition of "rich". Then there is also the perspective, if you win a lottery but that money motivates some criminals to kidnapped for your family for ransom, then kill them anyways, was winning the lotter lucky for you? If you became homeless, but while in a homeless shelter you meet the love of your life, was becoming homeless a luck for you (since without it you would have never met the love of your life)?

Bottom line is people tend to use "someone else got lucky" as an excuse for why they are entitled to things for free. It used to be that when a farther with his son walked along a street and saw a cool car which the son liked, the father would tell his son "look at that car, if you work hard maybe some day you can afford one too". Today's version is "look a that car, that guy sure got lucky, he needs to pay his fair share because we deserve this too".

And back on topic, I hear that several states may be adopting their own EV and solar incentives. This may particularly be true if the new federal incentives prove to be popular, or if states are seeking to ease weaknesses in infrastructure/distribution

Yea, not in my state, which officially states that they don't have a pollution problem. And definitely not for cars considered premium. We used to have EV incentives because it was aligned with the left narrative, until some politicians decided most of them went to help "people who got lucky in life" buy EV's. So they quickly removed a bunch of the incentives, and even the next, smaller incentive, explicitly excluded Tesla from it (until it was challenged in court, so they had to change to to exclude Tesla via price caps instead of by manufacturer name, though some base Model 3's still got some partial incentive out of that in the end). They are now talking about taxing EV's even more (already taxed annually for equivalent of 12K miles of gas taxes in an average ICE car, plus fee for public charging infrastructure - a reasonable solution in my book by the way, but now they want a lot more under the guise that EV's are "rich people's toys").

 

[LXSC]

I'm not sure I think this is true (and I'm not being aggressive or trying to win the Internet). Don't get me wrong. I work very hard. It's extremely comforting to think that I have all that I have because I have earned it because I work so hard and I'm so intelligent. But with each passing year, I am more convinced that this is not really true (of course, I, like most of us, knew everything when I was 18, and yet with each passing year I relate more and more to John Snow in that I realize that "I know nothing").

Now, I think it is much more like something from a Tolstoy novel. In a riff of his line that "“Happy families are all alike; every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way”, I think that the wealthy are all alike, and the poor are all poor in their own way. Specifically, as I write this from Auberge du Soleil, I think that the wealthy all have a great deal of luck in common. No matter how hard we work, we all have luck in that we either caught multiple breaks in life, whether it be that we had someone looking out for us, came from a wealthy family (or even just a loving family), got a good education, or whatever. It can't just be hard work, because there are millions of poor who work as hard or harder than we do, or had great ideas that didn't stick or just had a bad break or bad timing, or just didn't know how to work the system, or didn't know how to make the most of their talents, or just didn't have connections, or experienced tragedies like war, bad health, or other practically unimaginable events. What's more, it's actually extremely expensive to be poor, and very cheap to be rich. If you are wealthy, you get opportunities to invest pre-IPO, while if you are poor, you can only buy on the market. If you are poor, good luck in getting decent financing for anything. If you are wealthy, bankers will fall all over themselves to give you a better deal, lower rates, etc. Don't get me wrong, I'm a capitalist and wouldn't trade my position for anything (and I work hard). I just think that my Taycan and all of the other blessings in my life have as much to do with luck (or blessings from God) as anything that I could have done myself. I'm not selling any change (I'm not political or partisan or fanatical), but I think there is a very thin line of luck/blessings that separates my life from those who could never dream of living the way I do. Don't get me wrong, I'm no saint. I just think that every time I get behind the wheel of my Taycan, I consider myself to be so very, very lucky, particularly when I consider that I could just as easily be in Syria or any number of countries where very great people who are well educated and hard working are still worrying about their next meal or the safety of their family. Honestly, how will we all justify our lives if asked by Saint Peter (or whatever equivalent you may believe in or not) about our choices? In any event, may we all continue to be lucky enough to debate things that don't really matter on the Internet.

 

[whitex]

Bill now signed into law
https://apnews.com/article/biden-signs-climate-health-bill-9a7f349fa7b07387d20ad603f2ff4875

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