[opinion] - hmmm…VW/Audi/Porsche may be in trouble…

[whitex]

Recent announcements from Porsche are inconsistent with current EU and UK legislation, which effectively requires all cars sold by 2035 to be EVs, else face fines, making ICE production uneconomic apart from high end 911s etc.

The current legislation isn’t compatible with market demand, European manufacturing capability or infrastructure implementation profitability.

Perhaps that will now dawning on the legislators - this article trails a review which may result in law changes, perhaps as a result of pressure from manufacturing and political drift to the right - https://www.reuters.com/sustainabil...035-zero-emission-vehicles-target-2025-09-12/

Changes to UK tax law from this year removes the previous Benefit In Kind advantage for expensive PHEVs such as Porsche and Range Rover. That has resulted in a big fall off in their sales. Porsche’s mention of continuing PHEVs (and ICE) seems inconsistent with the legislation and the demand
https://a.storyblok.com/f/274296/x/af421b23e0/update_strategic_realignment.pdf

A decade ago a simple 80% solution to the car pollution problem would have been to compel and support a transition to PHEVs and small EVs, to support a minimum 100 mile range, sufficient for the majority of journeys. Instead dimwit myopic politicians tbought they could amend a century of development within a decade. And they didn’t address the major sources.

Maybe Porsche is counting on their eco-synthetic-fuel exemption, or perhaps EU market is not their primary focus anymore, so they are willing to drop sales in EU if EU doesn't change their rules by 2035.

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[D00notD00d]

Maybe Porsche is counting on their eco-synthetic-fuel exemption, or perhaps EU market is not their primary focus anymore, so they are willing to drop sales in EU if EU doesn't change their rules by 2035.

Given the reductions in Asia and the possible impact of Trump’s tariffs, unless EU legislation changes, it’s hard to see where the shift Porsche is selling to investors will pay off.

 

[whitex]

Given the reductions in Asia and the possible impact of Trump’s tariffs, unless EU legislation changes, it’s hard to see where the shift Porsche is selling to investors will pay off.

So according to this AI, not a single Porsche sold in China in 2024?

 

[chun]

So according to this AI, not a single Porsche sold in China in 2024?

56,887 ; which is 28% less than 2023 - https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/2025/company/porsche-deliveries-2024-38358.html

2025 looks even worse, with 42% less sells in Q1 compared to Q1 2024.

They definitely care a lot about the Chinese market, since they commissioned whole new Software for Taycans in China, when in other markets they don't even bother with basic updates or maintaining basic functionalities working, like map directions not working now for a couple of months in europe.

 

[Tooney]

when in other markets they don't even bother with basic updates or maintaining basic functionalities working, like map directions not working now for a couple of months in europe.

I told you - someone keeps messing with GPS in Europe

 

[D00notD00d]

My search term was ‘proportion of Porsche sales in Europe’. That’s what the data processing returned to me.
In the image I posted above about 117k sales were not accounted for.
The full data is below. About a third of sales are in Europe.

 

[whitex]

56,887 ; which is 28% less than 2023 - https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/2025/company/porsche-deliveries-2024-38358.html

2025 looks even worse, with 42% less sells in Q1 compared to Q1 2024.

They definitely care a lot about the Chinese market, since they commissioned whole new Software for Taycans in China, when in other markets they don't even bother with basic updates or maintaining basic functionalities working, like map directions not working now for a couple of months in europe.

So while declining, still larger market than Germany, yet completely skipped over by AI. This is the problem with AI answers.

My search term was ‘proportion of Porsche sales in Europe’. That’s what the data processing returned to me.

AI included North American sales in its breakdown, not but China or other countries - which accounted for over a third of their sales. Notice it actually did not explicitly give you what you asked for, i.e. the "proportion of Porsche sales in Europe", so a numerical fraction or a percentage. That is a good example of problems with AI answers, they can be very misleading, missing information, or include made up information (not in this example).

 

[D00notD00d]

@whitex
The search result gave me the number of global sales and the number in Europe - the proportion of sales in Europe. That satisfies the definition of proportion - I didn’t ask for the result in fraction or percentage terms.
I also didn’t ask for the numbers in North America but was given those anyway - ? And was also incorrectly told that North America is the largest single sales region - it isn’t, that’s Europe.

IT industry hype is currently badging everything as AI when most of it is just traditional data processing. There’s no machine learning involved, no feedback loop to correct answers, no real ‘artificial intelligence’.

This isn’t AI, it is just a data assistant - like Tesla’s AutoPilot is a driver assistant. Neither are 100% reliable in all contexts and never will be. Human interpretation, intelligence and control is required.
The problem isn’t AI. It’s HI. Human gullibility. Human reasoning can be just as faulty as AI’s. AI is mis-sold.

 

[D00notD00d]

More on the European Motor Industry troubles and the need for legislation changes

 

[Tooney]

Supplier bankruptcies increase in Germany amid weak market, high costs, Chinese competition
ZF Friedrichshafen’s announcement that it is cutting 7,600 positions adds to the German supplier industry’s troubles as partsmakers struggle to manage the shift to EVs, along with falling demand for combustion engine components and increased competition from Chinese suppliers.

Including job losses at Volkswagen, Audi, and Porsche, the German auto industry is expected to eliminate nearly 100,000 jobs by 2030, according to an analysis by Bloomberg.

Bankruptcies among German suppliers are climbing sharply, with 30 percent more expected in 2025 compared with last year, according to a report from consultancy Falkensteg.

 

[D00notD00d]

Supplier bankruptcies .. First Brands
https://on.ft.com/3J1RGPI (limited share, also copied to PDF)
And video
https://www.ft.com/video/8f96edcb-c2af-4b30-89b2-e48b3ff4279b

 

[D00notD00d]

Any manufacturer not in politician induced trouble?

 

[daveo4EV]

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/porsches-china-meltdown-sends-shockwaves-194753490.html

 

[Der-Schwabe]

Any manufacturer not in politician induced trouble?

Not just that...Ferrari's share price tumbled, not because of the reduced EV ambition but because of weak financial results:

" However, the sell-off wasn’t triggered by the car’s reveal or by news of fewer electrified models in Ferrari’s future lineup, but by weaker-than-expected financial results and a cautious outlook that rattled investors."

https://www.carscoops.com/2025/10/ferrari-stock-plunges-as-it-slashes-electrification-goals/

 

[whitex]

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/porsches-china-meltdown-sends-shockwaves-194753490.html

So is Porsche claiming that there is no market for EVs, while also claiming that Chinese customer choose EV’s over Porsche’s?

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