Kyle Didn't Believe BYD's Flash Charging Claims So he Went To China To Verify

[AutoX]

While the BYD charge very fast, they have bad efficiency, the cars are super heavy and the suspension isn't great.

So for now it's a one trick pony.

If you take a lot of long trips and need to DC charge, then that one trick is a pretty compelling argument even with the other shortcomings.

I hear that they are not doing too well in China this year. Hopefully they can sell their battery tech to other manufacturers.

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[chun]

While the BYD charge very fast, they have bad efficiency, the cars are super heavy and the suspension isn't great.

So for now it's a one trick pony.

If you take a lot of long trips and need to DC charge, then that one trick is a pretty compelling argument even with the other shortcomings.

BYD cars do indeed have horrible suspension. To be expected of budget cars though? Few cars below 40k have good suspension

Their more premium brands, like denza or yangwang, however do not, as they are on equivalent to PAR suspension systems.

 

[prj]

Their more premium brands, like denza or yangwang, however do not, as they are on equivalent to PAR suspension systems.

The only Denza sold in Europe currently does not have anything like PAR, it's just a normal air suspension, like VWAG has had since 2002.
It is also about 30% less efficient than the Taycan and weighs 500kg more, and the Taycan is not really the latest word in efficiency either, especially with the massive tyres on it.

Whether something exists somewhere else, I don't care since it is not possible to buy or import it to EU.

 

[chun]

The only Denza sold in Europe currently does not have anything like PAR, it's just a normal air suspension.
It is also about 30% less efficient than the Taycan and weighs 500kg more.

Whether something exists somewhere else, I don't care since it is not possible to buy or import it to EU.

That is true. But they do have the systems, and they will surely make their way in European BYD cars also.

6 months ago, 1000kw charging was only being released in china. Now it’s already being deployed in Europe. I don’t think they are not capable of brining a suspension system to Europe

That being said, efficiency is less of an issue when you charge 3x as fast as the competition - or charge at a flat “curve” of 400kw up to 90%

LFP is lfp, which is heavy. Can’t do much about it. Don’t think they plan to

 

[prj]

That is true. But they do have the systems, and they will surely make their way in European BYD cars also.

No idea what "they have the systems" means when anyone can buy it from ZF.
Also you are probably confusing with the Niio ET9 which does have active suspension (but again not available in EU).

That being said, efficiency is less of an issue when you charge 3x as fast as the competition - or charge at a flat “curve” of 400kw up to 90%

If you can find a charger. Right now there are none, so it will take at least a few years until there are.
In few years time PPE Evo is out. In case of a 400kW charger and the newer cars, the difference is much less. E.g. a 0-80 charge will take roughly 14-15 minutes on the larger battery, and when you factor in the much worse efficiency, it's no better than a Taycan, actually around the same.

Where it has a large advantage is up north in colder climates, as it will do that 14-15 minutes even when it is very cold outside.

The current gen BYD cars are a joke, they charge at like 70-80kW here in winter...

LFP is lfp, which is heavy. Can’t do much about it. Don’t think they plan to

Yes, their cars almost require a truck license to drive (3.5 tons). I am sure the handling really isn't great.

 

[chun]

No idea what "they have the systems" means when anyone can buy it from ZF.
Also you are probably confusing with the Niio ET9 which does have active suspension (but again not available in EU).


If you can find a charger. Right now there are none, so it will take at least a few years until there are.
In few years time PPE Evo is out. In case of a 400kW charger and the newer cars, the difference is much less. E.g. a 0-80 charge will take roughly 14-15 minutes on the larger battery, and when you factor in the much worse efficiency, it's no better than a Taycan, actually around the same.

Where it has a large advantage is up north in colder climates, as it will do that 14-15 minutes even when it is very cold outside.

The current gen BYD cars are a joke, they charge at like 70-80kW here in winter...


Yes, their cars almost require a truck license to drive (3.5 tons). I am sure the handling really isn't great.

They say 3000 charges in EU in 12 months.
They have done double that in china in 6 months.
So I would believe them, but remains to be seen.


And no, I don’t confuse the yangwang u9 made by BYD that jumps over potholes with the NIO

 

[prj]

They say 3000 charges in EU in 12 months.
They have done double that in china in 6 months.
So I would believe them, but remains to be seen.

Can't really draw conclusions from China, as I am sure there is much less red tape there regarding EV charging.

Of course if they manage to deploy at scale it's very good for the user of the car, because you can not only charge BYD there but every other EV of course, and we know that AMG GT also is already doing 850 kW for example, I am sure the PPE Evo platform will also have huge jump in fast charging performance.

 

[Freeewilly]

The video at 54:30 said BYD started working on this project at the end of last year, the first unit came out the factory during the first week of January. This is how fast Chinese engineering speed is.
How is Western countries going to catch up? They are planning next 2-3 generations already.

 

[chun]

The video at 54:30 said BYD started working on this project at the end of last year

That's assuming you actually believe them, or that you believe that they did 0 work on battery tech in the last 4 years.

The reality is that they more than likely worked on it for years - while other chinese brands focused on incremental increases every 6-12 months, from 400kw to 500kw to 600kw, multiple chemistries - they focused on one single leapfrog update to their single type of battery cell, LFP, jumping over the many incremental increases.

More than likely this was in the works for years, at the very minimum one year. Their wording is also very specific: they started working on the chargers at the end of the year. But the important bit is the batteries powering both the chargers and the cars.

It is impressive tech, and it's definitely real, but I wouldn't take every claim at face value.

 

[refazi]

There is a Europian tech company that started working on 10C+ speeds, but many experts called their tech a scam and so far they didn't demonstrate it at scale (only bikes and scooters..)
Was discussed here - https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/threads/awesome-if-true.32623/

 

[sufcrusher]

I had to look up the meaning of 10C. For others who may not know here it is:

This is flat out wrong and meaningless. AI hallucination.

People should find a better source if they want to know how C works.

 

[69Mach390]

I think the European/ US world now really needs to wake up in terms of EVs.

For so long, almost everyone has lambasted China about fake, inferior, copied products and almost always discredited technological innovations (and a few of those assessments were probably deserved and likely true, but in the past).

Innovation and development in the South East countries is now happening at such a pace, that it is almost comical. Not just EVs, roads, bridges, railways, hospitals - the sheer speed of ‘getting things done’ in those countries is incredible.
I think the West is now losing the race… And while a lot of us may not like it, but doesn’t mean it ain’t happening.

Both can be true.

It’s a lot easier to score a run when you start on 3rd base. Stealing ideas, using cheap and sometimes slave labor and manipulating currency to get ahead.

Yes, they did get ahead, but sometimes how you get there matters as well.

And no, the US and EU aren’t going to be able to compete because they aren’t willing to do those things to get ahead.

And it’s no wonder the guy wants to verify claims. There have been so many times that unfounded outrageous claims came out of China that it’s normal to be skeptical. To be fair outrageous claims about battery tech are pretty much the norm everywhere in the EV industry. We’ve been hearing about solid state for quite some time and almost all the claims were bogus.

 

[ZenicaNC]

I have to ask, would you guys really be okay driving a chinese car? The grip its totalitarian government has over domestic businesses is alarming. If the government tells them to add hardware or software that spies on the owner/driver, they cannot refuse. Not that they need it but being in bed with russia can only help them hide the ways to add it so western governments and buyers never find it.

A risk not worth anything, certainly not a car.

 

[Freeewilly]

Do I have concern of Chinese government collect my data? Yes, but won't stop me if the product is good. I've been tracked by Google, FB, IG, YT, X every second. I fully understand I'm been surveillanced, but I get to use these services and for free. All of them knows when and where I work, shop, eat and what I like to do online. For anyone think western governments or companies use our data under the rule of law, they are kidding themselves

Obvious for someone works for government or in military. They should treat cyber security a lot more seriously.

 

[chun]

I have to ask, would you guys really be okay driving a chinese car? The grip its totalitarian government has over domestic businesses is alarming. If the government tells them to add hardware or software that spies on the owner/driver, they cannot refuse. Not that they need it but being in bed with russia can only help them hide the ways to add it so western governments and buyers never find it.

A risk not worth anything, certainly not a car.

Let’s pretend that USA is not doing everything you just listed. Or how much more would it affect you if a foreign nation ALSO does it? You think you’re that important that the Chinese will spy specifically on you?

Not to mention that is bullshit, the Chinese cars sold in EU run software specifically for the EU, and it’s not run on the same chips as in china. They must adhere to European security regulations, same as Porsche or any other German or European car manufcaturer. If the cars wouldn’t comply, they wouldn’t be able to sell me - just like the Macan ICE is no longer compliant and can’t be sold anymore

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