Panamera GTS v. Taycan GTS

[Irish Guy]

This made me smile!
Apart from the familiar noise a V8 IC engine is inferior to an electric motor in every objective way.

It needs a clutch since it is incapable of producing torque from stationary.

It needs a multi ratio gearbox because the physics of gas flow and combustion combined with the limitations of practical manufacture mean the torque/rpm curve is very narrow meaning it is almost never operating at high performance at any road speed - it does lead to variable acceleration rates not only from ratio to ratio but also depending on rev range, which is a weakness technically but familiar, I suppose.

It is heavy and complex, hideously so if turbocharged.

It has temperatures within high enough to degrade its lubricant.

Overall demonstrably shit compared to an electric motor.

OTOH the battery means the car is heavy, so despite an electric motor being in every other way superior to any IC engine for a real sports car the weight it ends up having to carry negates most of the huge shortcomings of an IC engine

From an engineering standpoint an EV is better for road use and an IC engine better for racing.

Formula 1 only uses hybrid engines as part of its marketing propaganda and to keep car companies paying. None of the car designers like the change and nor do the mechanics. The best F1 cars had normally aspirated multi cylinder engines in our (me and all the other F1 car designers I know) opinion. OTOH we used to use about 160kg of fuel for a race and now, with the sameish power, it is 100kg so pretty efficient if heavy.

I always enjoy reading your engineering perspective on this forum!

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[Murph7355]

...
The Panamera can do things that the Taycan cannot, such as drive for ~ 700 miles at a time on the motorway....

When was the last time you drove 700 miles non-stop?

Even as a 20yr old I never did this. At 70mph (a high average even for people who like to motor) that's 10hrs. Without a piss, coke, leg stretch, sandwich.

The charging infrastructure point is the really key one. People moan about it in the UK, but it's really not that bad at present IMO, though this is influenced by the routes I use. Sounds like that's the real kicker for you guys

Most people only use their cars for around 30 miles a day tops here. I fall into that category. When I go further afield, it's usually to a handful of places so it's easy to get used to where chargers are. And on our arterial roads there's a pretty good selection. Relative to home charging they're expensive. But relative to petrol, not so much.

What using a Panamera for a week did for me (eHybrid V6) was realise how much value the instant torque of electric, plus a headline power figure, brings to the table. I couldn't wait to get back to the Taycan.

 

[Irish Guy]

When was the last time you drove 700 miles non-stop?

Even as a 20yr old I never did this. At 70mph (a high average even for people who like to motor) that's 10hrs. Without a piss, coke, leg stretch, sandwich.

The charging infrastructure point is the really key one. People moan about it in the UK, but it's really not that bad at present IMO, though this is influenced by the routes I use. Sounds like that's the real kicker for you guys

Most people only use their cars for around 30 miles a day tops here. I fall into that category. When I go further afield, it's usually to a handful of places so it's easy to get used to where chargers are. And on our arterial roads there's a pretty good selection. Relative to home charging they're expensive. But relative to petrol, not so much.

What using a Panamera for a week did for me (eHybrid V6) was realise how much value the instant torque of electric, plus a headline power figure, brings to the table. I couldn't wait to get back to the Taycan.

To be fair, I’ve never gone 700 miles without stopping! But I regularly do 420 miles in a straight shot between DC and Rhode Island. And, in the past, I’ve then sometimes driven to Boston and back (another 100 miles or so) for work purposes shortly after arriving in RI. I can do all of that in the Panamera without having to refill once.

But that’s my unusual experience, and I agree that charging infrastructure is the real problem - at least in the US. Honestly, I’ve been impressed with the Taycan’s range in warm weather. If I could stop after 200 or 240 miles with immediate access to a working, fast charger that would have me back on the road with another 200+ mile range in just 30 minutes (every time, reliably), I’d be delighted. By pure luck, that was my experience with my first DC-RI drive in the Taycan and it was fabulous. But every time since has involved lengthy waits and dodgy chargers, which are just maddening on a long road trip. Still, that one good experience is a sign of what the future hopefully has in store for us.

By the way, for daily use - I agree entirely. The Taycan can’t be beaten. It has more than enough range for day trips. It’s the long drives that I have to do quite frequently that are the real PITA. People often suggest flying instead, but that introduces its own headaches (TSA, delayed flights, crowded planes, extra cost, etc.) and for my DC-RI trip it’s almost as fast - and definitely more comfortable - just driving.

 

[Kiran1980]

Such brilliant cars!

A lot has been written about the Taycan and Panamera, especially as to whether one will displace the other. I’ve read ardent expressions in favor of the Taycan, so much so that the Panamera is supposedly an anachronism. It’s not. I’m a member of the rare species that owns both. My experience with both cars has surprised me. Hidden personality traits have revealed themselves, giving me a new-found appreciation for the old.

Let’s dispense with the obvious: both cars are four-door, family-friendly sports sedans that display that exquisite Porsche trait of enthusiastic turn-in, tactile steering, and athletic chassis dynamics. Why own both?

My situation may be atypical. I live in the DMV area, but routinely do > 400-mile drives with family up to New England and back. Such driving needs couldn’t be in more tension. The work commute is a traffic-ridden nightmare of stop and go that sees me hit 12 mpg in the Panamera GTS on a good day. That slog begs for an EV solution; not a V8. Meanwhile, the long drive along the I-95 reveals any non-Tesla’s Achilles’ heel. Charging remains a treacherous process, betrayed not simply by an inadequate number of chargers, but by their seemingly innate unreliability. The Panamera? I routinely exceed 31 mpg on the highway, giving me a range of over 700 miles. The motorway is its natural hunting ground.

And yet when I first got my Taycan, I was so smitten that I openly hypothesized the Panamera’s imminent demise. Wow, the Taycan is smooth to drive - in a way that no other car I’ve ever helmed can hope to be. It soothes the soul after an intense work day. Immersed in tranquility (check the acoustic glass option), you can simply glide to your destination, comfortable in the knowledge that a mere tap of your toe will thrust you toward the horizon. The pinnacle of luxury driving is effortlessness, and this car has it in spades.

The talents of Porsche’s first EV surpass the day trip. It’s an exquisite highway cruiser. Serene and bestowed of instant passing power - any speed, any time - the Taycan delivers. Indeed - and, in hindsight, hilariously - my first Electrify America experience was A+. I stopped, immediately found an open charger, and was back on the road with no fee after 30 minutes ready for the last 210 minutes of my journey. I started to question the rationale for the other car.

When I next picked up the keys to the Panamera, that intuition grew. Throttle response felt laggy, while the ultimate power seemed underwhelming. (The Taycan GTS is in a different speed category.) I thought that the death knell had sounded.

But then I really drove the Panamera, spiritedly and with purpose. It is some machine. At first blush, it’s less tied down than the Taycan, which feels more solid, agile, and precise in normal mode. But hit sport or sport plus in the Panamera GTS and a transformation follows that’s larger than the equivalent shift in the Taycan. The Panamera now wants to dive in. And here’s the big difference - it wants to rotate under power. That Panamera GTS really kicks its rear end out in “go mode.” I’ve had it rotate to crazy angles that the Taycan has no interest in emulating. To be sure, the Panamera lacks the initial turn in of the Taycan, but has more ultimate grip (no surprise - wider rubber plus 500 pounds less weight). And it’s shockingly agile. I refer here only to the Panamera GTS. I lack comparable seat time in the other Panamera models. And for as well as the Taycan masks its weight in regular driving, its sheer mass reveals itself with the subtlety of a sledgehammer when you really push (I got a nice, stable, four-wheel skid on an empty road in the wet, and suddenly those 2.5 tons make themselves abundantly clear - easy recovery notwithstanding).

My epiphany was last month in a long drive through the Poconos mountains. There, the P. GTS revealed itself. Turn toward a steep, extended uphill climb; click the mode selector to sports; and push the throttle halfway to 4K rpm or so, and the result is euphoric: A deep, rich, V8 bellow fills the cabin, along with a sense of strong, endless thrust as the car heads for the heavens. Pedal down all the way and the PDK shifts with one sharp kick after another. The power isn’t overwhelming, but it’s real. It’s interesting how Porsche tuned the V8 in the GTS - it makes max horsepower higher in the rpm band than the other Panameras. I can’t tell the difference in first or second - it’s over too quickly. But in third or above, there’s a noticeable increase in urgency just when you think it’ll die off - right before red line. It’s cool.

I drove for hours that day, having more fun than the Taycan would have possibly allowed, faster as it may be. That experience was subsequently juxtaposed by hours-long waits for functioning chargers along the I-95 when I decided to try the long drive with the electric option with the family.

Although the Taycan feels like the faster car just about everywhere, there is one exception. On launch, the Panamera GTS kicks much more violently. It and and the Taycan GTS both hit 60 in 3.2 (roll out subtracted), but it’s no contest from there - the EV pulls much harder. The drama and initial punch of launch control of the V8 Panamera are much more exciting, though - holding at 5,000 rpm and then dumping the clutch. The Taycan, by contrast, is smooth to a fault. I suppose that’s what the Turbo S is for…

I still (much) prefer the Taycan as my daily in the DMV area, scooting between traffic and enjoying a respite from the stresses of the day. And the car is deeply exciting in its own way. The roll-on performance in first gear is nuts. I was enamored with the base, RWD model when I first drove it; and sometimes think I should have gotten that model instead. But I got a killer deal on the Taycan GTS, and have no regrets. The sense of endless, on-tap torque is its own reward in that model.

All in all, neither of these cars is a true replacement for the other. Porsche knows what it’s doing offering them alongside each other. Which one is right for you depends not just on your use case (everyone talks about that). But also on what really motivates you as a driver. Each has something special to offer. But they’re different, and not just in the obvious ways. The Taycan has the world’s worst reversing camera. It’s a little smaller inside and less ornate (except for the mood lighting at night - so sweet). And it has a smaller and less usable trunk. But so what? Those are mere details. The driving differences are profound.

I hope that these impressions are valuable to at least some of you and of interest to more. Best to all!

Nice write up. I own a Taycan Turbo S and a.F10 M5. While Taycan is a very fast car, I always find the M5 more fun to drive. Maybe it is the sound and gear changes! So I understand what you mean.

 

[Grayblack]

Nice write up. I own a Taycan Turbo S and a.F10 M5. While Taycan is a very fast car, I always find the M5 more fun to drive. Maybe it is the sound and gear changes! So I understand what you mean.

I've owned an F10 M5 in the past. It's a phenomenal car. The combination of the V8 and DCT were perfect.

 

[Pete85]

I've owned an F10 M5 in the past. It's a phenomenal car. The combination of the V8 and DCT were perfect.

Have to disagree. I have driven every M-car apart from rare models and the F10 is the worst M-car I have driven. The F90 M5 only slightly behind. Very soft suspension and lacking every sharpness in steering. The DCT is nice though.
F90:s worst part is the transmission. The 8-speed torque converter is super slow and unresponsive. With the DCT the F90 would be a MUCH better car.

 

[Grayblack]

Have to disagree. I have driven every M-car apart from rare models and the F10 is the worst M-car I have driven. The F90 M5 only slightly behind. Very soft suspension and lacking every sharpness in steering. The DCT is nice though.
F90:s worst part is the transmission. The 8-speed torque converter is super slow and unresponsive. With the DCT the F90 would be a MUCH better car.

To each their own. I've also driven a lot of M cars and had a good amount of track time with the F10 M5. It's no E92 M3, but for its category it performs well.

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