BOSE Delays

[whitex]

Playing Devil's advocate here.

For a start the car environment is bad for quality music both because of background noise and the impossibility of getting the speaker units at acoustically good distances from the listeners. So good sound in a car is an oxymoron (and I tried wallet bruising systems for years before giving up)

Secondly simply having more drivers isn't necessarily better. Fewer higher quality drivers will be potentially better, maybe even much better.
Also better quality drivers usually have higher efficiency so need less power for the same loudness.

I am not saying it must be, but this new Bose system may well be just as good as the old actually and require less power so less electrical losses.

Perhaps you are arguing the wrong point - quality of sound in a car. I don't think it's about actual results, it's about claimed results for which Porsche is charging money for. It would be as if you paid for PTS+ custom black silk color but Porsche delivered you a flat white car, then someone argued that this color is actually better color for safety of the car, better wear, that cars get dirty anyways, etc, therefore you should be ok with it. IMO opinion Porsche is free to discontinue all sound system upgrades if they so desire, and to sell nothing but flat white cars, again, if that is what they want. BUT, they should not be free to sell one car and deliver another for the same price.

I think the problem is that Porsche created a marketing impression selling "more speakers, more power" as higher quality, therefore justifying higher prices. Burmester advertises 21 speakers, 1455 Watts to justify 6x the price of Bose which used to come with only 14 speakers and 710 Watts. The marketing implication here is more speakers, more power, is worth more, with non-linear cost per additional speakers/power (the first speaker is the cheapest, last one is most expensive, hence less than 2x the speakers and barely 2x the power is worth 6x the money!). So, when you subtract 2 speakers and take away a third of the power, people expect half the value to be gone. It is possible that the new Bose might actually sound better, but it doesn't matter because of Porsche marketing which sold people on more speakers and more power equals more value.

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[f1eng]

I think the problem is that Porsche created a marketing impression selling "more speakers, more power" as higher quality, therefore justifying higher prices. Burmester advertises 21 speakers, 1455 Watts to justify 6x the price of Bose which used to come with only 14 speakers and 710 Watts. The marketing implication here is more speakers, more power, is worth more, with non-linear cost per additional speakers/power (the first speaker is the cheapest, last one is most expensive, hence less than 2x the speakers and barely 2x the power is worth 6x the money!). So, when you subtract 2 speakers and take away a third of the power, people expect half the value to be gone. It is possible that the new Bose might actually sound better, but it doesn't matter because of Porsche marketing which sold people on more speakers and more power equals more value.

That is why I started my post with being Devil’s advocate.

Most people neither know nor care anything about audio (even the majority of non-technically minded enthusiasts IME) and the marketing is, IMO, bollox, so I was pointing it out.

It could be a more expensive to make system too, if the loudspeaker units are of higher quality.

The problem is, as you say, if the market is ignorant enough to be convinced that the sole arbiter of better audio is more speakers and more power they have stepped on their d*ck.

 

[whitex]

That is why I started my post with being Devil’s advocate.

Most people neither know nor care anything about audio (even the majority of non-technically minded enthusiasts IME) and the marketing is, IMO, bollox, so I was pointing it out.

It could be a more expensive to make system too, if the loudspeaker units are of higher quality.

The problem is, as you say, if the market is ignorant enough to be convinced that the sole arbiter of better audio is more speakers and more power they have stepped on their d*ck.

They are victims of their own marketing, which created the impression that the recent change has lowered the value of the car (and therefore potentially its resale value) but did not change the price, hence upset customers. What they really need is better marketing with a better audio quality metric, or just stop advertising the number of speakers and power completely and go by brand only (Porsche vs Bose vs Burmester).

 

[WuffvonTrips]

Maybe the Taycan Bose system has always had only 14 drivers, but they've only just corrected the description. Has anyone ever checked?

 

[jld1]

So they diluted the spec while keeping the price the same. That is one form of inflation, like buying same brand toilet paper rolls for the same price as before but realizing at home the rolls are smaller (less sheets and/or paper is thinner).

They call it shrinkflation and it's amazing to see it happen to a premium car brand as well. Shouldn't shock me as you can see with BMW making their Korean customers pay to "unlock" the heated seats that are already in their car. They're just asking to be hacked IMO.

 

[whitex]

They call it shrinkflation and it's amazing to see it happen to a premium car brand as well. Shouldn't shock me as you can see with BMW making their Korean customers pay to "unlock" the heated seats that are already in their car. They're just asking to be hacked IMO.

Slightly different. BMW is just greedy and looking for more revenue sources. They didn't dilute existing feature for which people paid for up front.

Subscriptions are coming to products whether we want them or not, it's just where things are going. It's not really a new model either, it's just another form or rent or lease. When you lease a car for example, it's like a subscription (especially when you don't have the option to buy it at the end, as some car leases do today). What has changed is connected software allows the rental to be more granular - instead of leasing a car you now lease individual features, and you have the ability to dynamically amend your rental agreement (this month I want heated seats, this month I don't). Some people prefer to buy vs. rent, so the problem is if the option to buy is eliminated to force customers into rental model. This does sometimes make sense from a technical point of view, for connected software for example which has to be continuously updated/patched to stay secure, but for things such as heated seats, there should always be the buy price and a rent price (or prices, depending on rental terms). There is also a hidden subscription benefit - manufacturer has a vested interest in keeping the feature working, because if it stops working, people stop paying.

 

[WasserGKuehlt]

Indeed it is dilution, and one would expect that locked/frozen orders would be honored.

Maybe the Taycan Bose system has always had only 14 drivers, but they've only just corrected the description. Has anyone ever checked?

Porsche Taycan 4 Cross Turismo - Porsche USA
Sound Package Plus with 10 Speakers and a total Output of 150 Watts

 

[WuffvonTrips]

Indeed it is dilution, and one would expect that locked/frozen orders would be honored.

Porsche Taycan 4 Cross Turismo - Porsche USA
Sound Package Plus with 10 Speakers and a total Output of 150 Watts

Isn't that normal for the Sound Package Plus? Did the CT4 previously have the Bose system as standard equipment for the US market?

 

[WuffvonTrips]

I've now found this (I screen grabbed from the video) on Bose UK's website...

...showing 2 speaker units in each of the 4 doors, plus 1 at the bottom of each of the front pillars, 1 central in the dash (the other object is the amp/control unit), 1 sub in the boot, and 2 in the REAR PARCEL SHELF, so 14 in total. So, the CT and ST Taycans don't have speakers in their removable rear shelf- does anyone know if they have 2 other additional speakers to compensate, or have they only ever had 12 (with the Sedan perhaps now being similarly configured)?

https://automotive.bose.co.uk/vehicles/porsche/taycan

 

[WasserGKuehlt]

Isn't that normal for the Sound Package Plus? Did the CT4 previously have the Bose system as standard equipment for the US market?

It is normal, but I was replying to your earlier question whether the base/standard audio system had 14 speakers. (And it did not.) Put plainly, Bose was an upgrade and was included in the Premium package at $5+k. The price of the package has remained the same, but no longer includes Bose. (And the default/standard equipment remained the same as well.)

 

[Hirschaj]

I was replying to your earlier question whether the base/standard audio system had 14 speakers

I think you misread that post from @WuffvonTrips Base and Bose (the actual words) look nearly identical though.

 

[WasserGKuehlt]

I think you misread that post from @WuffvonTrips Base and Bose (the actual words) look nearly identical though.

I appreciate the assist, but no, I did not. I did phrase my reply incorrectly, though, as I inferred his post to mean that Bose may have been a quality-only upgrade over standard (as opposed to quality + number of drivers). The content, # of speakers or description of the Bose system never changed as far as I'm aware. Anyway, lots of keystrokes I'll never get back..

 

[WuffvonTrips]

I appreciate the assist, but no, I did not. I did phrase my reply incorrectly, though, as I inferred his post to mean that Bose may have been a quality-only upgrade over standard (as opposed to quality + number of drivers). The content, # of speakers or description of the Bose system never changed as far as I'm aware. Anyway, lots of keystrokes I'll never get back..

TBH I'm getting a bit confused trying to navigate the trail of related posts so just to clarify the context of my question about # Bose speakers (drivers)- it was prompted by someone noting that the US configurator now specifies 12 speakers where it previously specified 14 (last time I looked, GB configurator still shows 14). Separately, the screengrab I posted above raises the question of whether the CT and ST models ever had 14.

 

[WasserGKuehlt]

TBH I'm getting a bit confused trying to navigate the trail of related posts so just to clarify the context of my question about # Bose speakers (drivers)- it was prompted by someone noting that the US configurator now specifies 12 speakers [...]

Thanks for the clarification, and I definitely contributed to the confusion. My angle/subthread concerned the inclusion of Bose in the (US) Premium Package. At first it was, then it was removed, but the price of the package was not updated. That's of particular interest to me, since my build was locked around the time Bose shortages became apparent, and I don't know yet if I'll get .. uh.. 14 or 10 speakers . (To bring it back on track.)

Re your question, it would make sense that wagons have a different arrangement (including number of speakers) than the sedan. I'd expect more (dome-mounted downward-oriented drivers at the rear), but I can see that'd be more difficult to achieve in a sleek wagon than, say, a tall SUV - so it's possible the equivalent of the shelf-mounted drivers does not exist in the longroof.

 

[whitex]

Re your question, it would make sense that wagons have a different arrangement (including number of speakers) than the sedan.

Are there any forum members who could just go to their cars and check?

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