Porsche TSB: Troubleshooting Charging - Jan 31, 2023

[Tooney]

Extracts below from https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2023/MC-10231403-0001.pdf

Duplication and diagnosis of customer charging complaints is difficult without detailed information from the
customer. The following documentation aims to assist Porsche Dealership service and support personnel with relevant and necessary information to assist customers with charging complaints.
Charging complaints occur due to a wide range of issues. Root causes span from misunderstanding functions or user configurations to both internal and external hardware or software issues. Additional functionality (for example, Plug and Charge via ISO-15118) increases potential for breakage and complaints. For those reasons, extremely detailed documentation of all customer complaints is necessary to assist duplication and diagnosis.

Tips
• Customers who experience difficulty starting a charging session should attempt charging with Plug and
Charge Deactivated via the PCM menu Home → Charging → Options[…]
Customer charging complaints should be duplicated in the same manner reported by the customer.
For example, DC charging complaints should be checked with DC charging function tests, and AC charging
complaints should be checked with AC charging function tests.
• Customers may find authenticating the session via smartphone before plugging in the car to be beneficial
(authenticate through the Charging NA App or the new MyPorsche App, for example).
This recommendation may differ from the instructions shown on a charging kiosk display.
• Charging hardware will normally reach high temperatures during prolonged use
- High ambient temperature may cause stopped, slowed, or derated charging sessions
- The optional Charging Dock (7PP.915.706.A) traps multiple heat sources (receptacle, plug, supply cable,
charge control unit, and part of the vehicle cable) and may exacerbate charger derating or stopped
charging sessions
- The optional 7.5m vehicle cable is often wrapped around the charging dock. This further heats the
charging dock during/after prolonged use, especially if the vehicle is parked close to the charging dock
where less vehicle cable is needed.
- The 10 AWG supply cables are tested and certified for use in US and Canada, and may differ from other
cord-and-plug EVSEs readily available in the market. (Editorial comment: @daveo4EV will enjoy that one.)
- It is recommended to install or relocate installed charging hardware away from vehicle heat sources or
heat exchanger exhaust air (for example, away from the Taycan front wheel opening).

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[daveo4EV]

- The 10 AWG supply cables are tested and certified for use in US and Canada, and may differ from other
cord-and-plug EVSEs readily available in the market. (Editorial comment: @daveo4EV will enjoy that one.)

my position has always been the 10 AWG cord is "safe" but a poor choice given forseeable/predicted/observed operations temperatures - I think it's bad form for a consumer object that is not a heater to normally operated at temperature of 140F (or more) - if they moved to 8/6 gauge AWG their operating temperatures would drop to below 100F… or to quote porsche's own document

"" high temperatures during prolonged use""

the cord as designed/insulated is technically valid/safe - but a poor design technical choice - for $7 (or less) cost-of-goods they could operate at temperatures below 100F for the same 240V/40 amp operational load…

maybe if the cord didn't operate at 140F (or more) it wouldn't cause cheaper NEMA 14-50 sockets to melt/deform from accumulated thermal stress induced by unnecessarily high normal operating temperatures

it is un-necessary for the cord to operate at these temperatures - and it's a cheap/easy fix that so far Porsche has resisted - they are pushing a bad postion rather than admit defeat.

 

[Tooney]

it is un-necessary for the cord to operate at these temperatures - and it's a cheap/easy fix that so far Porsche has resisted - they are pushing a bad postion rather than admit defeat.

+1

 

[daveo4EV]

to quote Prosche's own document as to appropriate wire gauge for a 50 amp 240V circuit…

• - A 50-amp branch circuit should use minimum 6 AWG, 90°C-rated
  copper wire for conductors supplying level 2 Porsche charging
  hardware plugged with a NEMA 14-50 or 6-50 supply cable

But porsche's power supply cable of 10 AWG wire is just fine…LOL

 

[daveo4EV]

Charging hardware will normally reach high temperatures during prolonged use
- High ambient temperature may cause stopped, slowed, or derated charging sessions
- The optional Charging Dock (7PP.915.706.A) traps multiple heat sources (receptacle, plug, supply cable,
charge control unit, and part of the vehicle cable) and may exacerbate charger derating or stopped
charging sessions
- The optional 7.5m vehicle cable is often wrapped around the charging dock. This further heats the
charging dock during/after prolonged use, especially if the vehicle is parked close to the charging dock
where less vehicle cable is needed.
- The 10 AWG supply cables are tested and certified for use in US and Canada, and may differ from other
cord-and-plug EVSEs readily available in the market
- It is recommended to install or relocate installed charging hardware away from vehicle heat sources or
heat exchanger exhaust air (for example, away from the Taycan front wheel opening)

Porsche's 9.6 kW EVSE is the ONLY EVSE I've used in 10+ years that achieves " high temperatures during prolonged use" - the reason for this is their insistence of their mininally viaable 10 AWG powersupply cable.

my Tesla J-1772 charger fed by 6 AWG wire @ 240V/48 amps achieves normal operating temperatures of 93F - over 50-60F lower operational temperature vs. Porsche's EVSE operating @ 240V/40 amps…

Porsche is wrong in this area.

 

[daveo4EV]

Porsche with this document has basically admitted failure and documented the PMC+/PMCC dual use as an EVSE and space heater…I stand by my recommendation to purchase an EVSE that operates at lower temperatures even during extended use…

while porsche considers this "normal" for their EVSE - there are lower priced, higher quality, competitive alternatives that offer better charging performance and lower normal operating temperatures…there is no reason for North American 40 amp EVSE to operate like this.

 

[daveo4EV]

LOL - Porsche quote " our $500 charging dock was also a bad idea…"

The optional Charging Dock (7PP.915.706.A) traps multiple heat sources (receptacle, plug, supply cable, charge control unit, and part of the vehicle cable) and may exacerbate charger derating or stopped charging sessions

 

[daveo4EV]

Extracts below from https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2023/MC-10231403-0001.pdf

Duplication and diagnosis of customer charging complaints is difficult without detailed information from the
customer. The following documentation aims to assist Porsche Dealership service and support personnel with relevant and necessary information to assist customers with charging complaints.
Charging complaints occur due to a wide range of issues. Root causes span from misunderstanding functions or user configurations to both internal and external hardware or software issues. Additional functionality (for example, Plug and Charge via ISO-15118) increases potential for breakage and complaints. For those reasons, extremely detailed documentation of all customer complaints is necessary to assist duplication and diagnosis.

Tips
• Customers who experience difficulty starting a charging session should attempt charging with Plug and
Charge Deactivated via the PCM menu Home → Charging → Options[…]
Customer charging complaints should be duplicated in the same manner reported by the customer.
For example, DC charging complaints should be checked with DC charging function tests, and AC charging
complaints should be checked with AC charging function tests.
• Customers may find authenticating the session via smartphone before plugging in the car to be beneficial
(authenticate through the Charging NA App or the new MyPorsche App, for example).
This recommendation may differ from the instructions shown on a charging kiosk display.
• Charging hardware will normally reach high temperatures during prolonged use
- High ambient temperature may cause stopped, slowed, or derated charging sessions
- The optional Charging Dock (7PP.915.706.A) traps multiple heat sources (receptacle, plug, supply cable,
charge control unit, and part of the vehicle cable) and may exacerbate charger derating or stopped
charging sessions
- The optional 7.5m vehicle cable is often wrapped around the charging dock. This further heats the
charging dock during/after prolonged use, especially if the vehicle is parked close to the charging dock
where less vehicle cable is needed.
- The 10 AWG supply cables are tested and certified for use in US and Canada, and may differ from other
cord-and-plug EVSEs readily available in the market. (Editorial comment: @daveo4EV will enjoy that one.)
- It is recommended to install or relocate installed charging hardware away from vehicle heat sources or
heat exchanger exhaust air (for example, away from the Taycan front wheel opening).

this entire document is confirmation of multiple bad choices that while are not outright failures are a poor set of design and technical choices that lead to a suboptimal product

this is their $3200 North American EVSE that overheats in normal operation (the most expensive EVSE on the market) - where viable alternatives that are operationally identitical can be purchased retail for $200 and do not "achieve high temperatures during prolonged use" …

personally I prefer the $200 option that works and doesn't get hot vs. the $3200 option that gets really hot but the vendor considers that "normal"

both will charge my Taycan at 9.6 kW - one is engineered better than the other and it's not the one with the higher price.

 

[WasserGKuehlt]

LOL - Porsche quote " our $500 charging dock was also a bad idea…"

Indeed, I was looking for some zingers on this one. "Our Porsche cabinet, designed by Porsche Design, and intended as an elegant and practical housing for the Porsche Charger units, is not suitable for the vicissitudes of, for instance, daily charging at full current - especially if the customer made the mistake of installing the cabinet in close proximity to the car. We advise the customers to drill some venting holes, buy a $5 HomeDepot hook for the damn cable, and shove their NHTSA complaints thanks."

 

[daveo4EV]

this entire document is confirmation of multiple bad choices that while are not outright failures are a poor set of design and technical choices that lead to a suboptimal product

this is their $3200 North American EVSE that overheats in normal operation (the most expensive EVSE on the market) - where viable alternatives that are operationally identitical can be purchased retail for $200 and do not "achieve high temperatures during prolonged use" …

personally I prefer the $200 option that works and doesn't get hot vs. the $3200 option that gets really hot but the vendor considers that "normal"

both will charge my Taycan at 9.6 kW - one is engineered better than the other and it's not the one with the higher price.

this document is air cover for the dealers and an enumeration of Porsche's well known deficiencies in the charging arena and mostly aimed at giving clear and specific messaging to the service/dealer network when asked by customers about these issues.

this document clearly outline's Porsche's "official" position regarding a number of know/potential snafu's in the charging arena…it also clearly states and telegraphs Porsche's reticence to address these issues, rather than stating we have "room to improve" in these areas - they are stateing - no this all is working as intended (or otherwise)

this is good from a corporate messaging point of view so that their entire Porsche apparatus is speaking with one voice and not sending "mixed" messages

but I personally am disappointed that Porsche considers the status quo acceptable

yeah we've made some bad decisions, but we're going to live with them rather than improve.

but it's a good document and lays to rest any speculation (reasonable or otherwise) as to Porsche's response to these issues.

the current Taycan product and it's charging support is what it is and Porsche is just fine with that.

my conclusions - don't use Porsche EVSE's cause their status quo is a low bar for EVSE performance and is unnecessarily compromised and demonstrably excessive in cost for no actual advantages vs. numerous alternatives.

I also feel this puts EA and it's sh*t show into perspective and is another reason I welcome the Supercharger network being opened in North America.

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