Porsche Wall Charger Connect - Green Wire

[Dale T]

Thanks folks - I will try and find a new electrician.

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[Jhenson29]

Nope we bought it brand new from he dealer. Sat in box for 6 months as we knew we were moving to a new state. Now it's been a year since we bought it.

So, that wire came from the electrician?

 

[dtich]

I agree new electrician - but honestly neutral is normally also ground in many setups - so it won't make a difference, but it would be best practice to to use the green for ground vs. neutral which commonly shares ground.

true dave, but honestly a bit frustrating that P doesn't have a neutral point in their EVSE as they should. it is not technically used in 240, and it is bonded to the chassis ground at the first point of grounding (assuming house is properly wired), but it is different from a ground wire, can carry voltage in other circumstances, and is often wired in a 14-50 receptacle because it is the proper way to do it in north america. P is remiss in making this equipment with no facility for a neutral. that is effectively requiring a free conductor in most premade cables and that is a no no.

my 2¢.

 

[daveo4EV]

true dave, but honestly a bit frustrating that P doesn't have a neutral point in their EVSE as they should. it is not technically used in 240, and it is bonded to the chassis ground at the first point of grounding (assuming house is properly wired), but it is different from a ground wire, can carry voltage in other circumstances, and is often wired in a 14-50 receptacle because it is the proper way to do it in north america. P is remiss in making this equipment with no facility for a neutral. that is effectively requiring a free conductor in most premade cables and that is a no no.

my 2¢.

I'm less concerned about P not providing a neutral hookup - none of the other hardwired EVSE's do provide any place for neutral

ClipperCreek/Enphase - nope
Chargepoint - nope
Tesla Wall Chargers - nope
Wallbox - nope

there are at least two things wrong with this install

• improper use of "netural" wire as a ground - green is the best practice choice - the use of white just leads to unnecessarily long internet conversations
  • _IF_ white is actually attached to proper ground at the other end this is less of a problem - but it's still confusing
  • _IF_ white is attached to neutral at the other end that's wrong
• should not have pulled 4-wire conductor/wire-bundle into a 3 wire hook up.

but the lack of "neutral" termination point inside a hardwired EVSE is common (universially true?) for the various vendors I've sampled over the years.

 

[Jhenson29]

P is remiss in making this equipment with no facility for a neutral. that is effectively requiring a free conductor in most premade cables and that is a no no.

Disagree. Cap it off and it’s fine. Wire tie it to another conductor if you’re concerned about securing it. But it’s otherwise fine. No big deal. Better without it in the first place, but no need for special provisions.

If they provided a connection point, it would serve no purpose other than to secure a wire the unit doesn’t need.

And why would someone buy a walll charger and connect it to a 14-50 in the first place? Way less expensive 40A EVSE if that’s what you want.

And technically, they do have a connection point for neutral. Its terminal 2, the connection point for a neutral when using 120VAC.

Should they have one labeled for neutral when 120VAC and a separate one labeled neutral for 240VAC for when someone runs a wire into a box they don’t need?

 

[dtich]

I'm less concerned about P not providing a neutral hookup - none of the other hardwired EVSE's do provide any place for neutral

ClipperCreek/Enphase - nope
Chargepoint - nope
Tesla Wall Chargers - nope
Wallbox - nope

there are at least two things wrong with this install

• improper use of "netural" wire as a ground - green is the best practice choice - the use of white just leads to unnecessarily long internet conversations
  • _IF_ white is actually attached to proper ground at the other end this is less of a problem - but it's still confusing
  • _IF_ white is attached to neutral at the other end that's wrong
• should not have pulled 4-wire conductor/wire-bundle into a 3 wire hook up.

but the lack of "neutral" termination point inside a hardwired EVSE is common (universially true) for the various vendors I've sampled over the years.

but they don't supply a power cable with a neutral in it, do they? maybe i'm not fully understanding the origin of this equipment. is that not a 14-50 pigtail from P? is it an electrician pulling a hardwire? if so, then, yeah... don't let that person hook up anything with more than 9v in it.

 

[dtich]

Disagree. Cap it off and it’s fine. Wire tie it to another conductor if you’re concerned about securing it. But it’s otherwise fine. No big deal. Better without it in the first place, but no need for special provisions.

If they provided a connection point, it would serve no purpose other than to secure a wire the unit doesn’t need.

And why would someone buy a walll charger and connect it to a 14-50 in the first place? Way less expensive 40A EVSE if that’s what you want.

And technically, they do have a connection point for neutral. Its terminal 2, the connection point for a neutral when using 120VAC.

Should they have one labeled for neutral when 120VAC and a separate one labeled neutral for 240VAC for when someone runs a wire into a box they don’t need?

no.

yes, you can 'cap it off', that's not the correct way to do it. have we all done it? sure. is it code? nope.

i see that i mis-read the original posts thinking this was all equipment supplied by P, this wiring must be from the electrician. makes more sense how it's f-ed up now. i bow out.

 

[Jhenson29]

yes, you can 'cap it off', that's not the correct way to do it. have we all done it? sure. is it code? nope.

Can you cite the code this violates?

 

[Dale T]

So, that wire came from the electrician?

I am 99.9999% sure it came in the box. I never even opened the box and allowed the electrician to.

 

[Jhenson29]

I am 99.9999% sure it came in the box. I never even opened the box and allowed the electrician to.

Not per @satchurator unbox/install thread. Not to say that it hasn’t changed. But I’d put money on that cable coming from your electrician.

https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/threads/porsche-wall-charger-connect-unbox-install.7541/

 

[dtich]

Can you cite the code this violates?

No, I don't know the code to recite it. Perhaps it's fine code-wise and I over-spoke, but... I wouldn't finish a high-current install with a wire-nutted non-op conductor zip-tied to another one. Seems sloppy and stupid. I would use a cable with the correct # of conductors in it. That's the part I'm confused about. But as I said, can't understand the install parameters in this case in the first place. Thx

 

[Dale T]

Not per @satchurator unbox/install thread. Not to say that it hasn’t changed. But I’d put money on that cable coming from your electrician.

https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/threads/porsche-wall-charger-connect-unbox-install.7541/

Interesting. Now, I am like WTF? Definitely going to track down a new electrician.

 

[Jhenson29]

No, I don't know the code to recite it. Perhaps it's fine code-wise and I over-spoke, but... I wouldn't finish a high-current install with a wire-nutted non-op conductor zip-tied to another one. Seems sloppy and stupid. I would use a cable with the correct # of conductors in it. That's the part I'm confused about. But as I said, can't understand the install parameters in this case in the first place. Thx

I agree with the correct number of conductors for this application??, but capping the wire is no big deal. I’ve done it a ton of times. And I’m relatively familiar with NEC (NFPA 70) and am not aware of any issues with doing this. Although, I focus on industrial applications more than residential.

It’s better to disconnect from source and that’s my preference if possible/practical, but can’t always be done easily. And I work with systems much higher than 80A. I work with individual motors pulling >1000A (FLA, ignoring overcurrent) @380-575VAC (depending on country).

There are also cases with premade cables coming from devices that source voltage and there’s really no choice but to cap. I guess you could install terminal blocks for this, but we cap that stuff all of the time.

 

[dtich]

I stand corrected, or/and , I acknowledge your superior experience. I still woundn't do it if had a choice. I kinda think that doing things like that in higher current, like, very high current, applications like yours is more understandable sometimes as it's in a presumably professional environment, with people who understand the things they're messing with. With consumer-facing apparatus I'd err on the side of fewer points of confusion/failure. At any rate. What you're describing sounds like.. elevators? Or, gantry cranes or something? Is it anything like that? Enjoy it?

 

[Jhenson29]

Interesting. Now, I am like WTF? Definitely going to track down a new electrician.

Yeah, for sure. Sounds like the first guy just wasn’t up to the task. Sorry that happened to you. I know we’ve gotten derailed here (typical Taycan forum…)but hopefully we helped some.

Also, in @satchurator thread, you can see a ground symbol next to the terminal. Electrician definitely should have known that one.

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