Road hazards void battery warranties on 2 Ioniq 5 EVs - $60,000 battery replacement cost exceeds EV purchase price - videos

[Tooney]

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[whitex]

The interesting part is that the battery is essentially worth more than the new vehicle. There ought to be some entrepreneurs out there willing to make money. Whenever someone needs a new battery for the EV5, buy a new one, remove the battery, sell it to make a small profit, then part out what's left over for more profit. Why are there no batteryless Ionic 5's available for $1,000 Canadian sold by dealers who just extracted the battery for another repair? Interesting piece of information missing from these videos was much did the written off Ionic 5 go for in an auction?

 

[Tooney]

My Taycan is my first EV.
What happens to the value of an EV after its battery warranty expires?
Can Taycans older than 8 years expect to have the same post-battery warranty experience as other brands?

 

[f1eng]

I was rather hoping that battery rebuild companies would start to service batteries with degraded cells. Though there perhaps hasn’t been enough demand yet or parts availability and trained technicians.

This obviously relies on the battery being designed to be serviceable, which I believe the Taycan’s is, and parts available.

In many ways the battery takes over from the engine in an EV since the motor itself is simple and requiring little maintenance.

Maybe should consider the battery needing maintenance after 100,000+ miles like an IC engine and the electric motor needing almost none, like a fuel tank.

Role reversal.

 

[whitex]

My Taycan is my first EV.
What happens to the value of an EV after its battery warranty expires?
Can Taycans older than 8 years expect to have the same post-battery warranty experience as other brands?

Tesla battery replacement for 100KWh is ~$20K (with old battery returned to Tesla). Taycan will probably be the same or less (adjusted for inflation), since technology is progressing and costs of batteries are still dropping. Unless of course dealers need to mark it up 100%. In the case of Ionic 5 there obviously is some extreme markups in the supply chain since you can buy a new car with the battery in it, with all the manufacturer and dealer profits, for less than just the battery. Maybe Hyundai dealers have a 10% profit margin for new cars and 50% or higher for parts?

All that said, it's not like your Taycan will die at the 8 year mark. There are still 2012 Teslas driving around with original batteries, and those are older, less robust ones. I sold my 2015 Model S after 8 years and its battery had minimal degradation (3%?). It needed a coolant valve replaced because it was leaking (the car threw an occasional warning about coolant level), which costed me $192.

Last but not least, Taycan battery is removable, so given large enough market, there will be 3rd party replacement batteries (see how many non-OEM Dyson vacuum batteries are out there today ).

 

[ShiftyWolf]

My Taycan is my first EV.
What happens to the value of an EV after its battery warranty expires?

I think this is the big question. Do we want to treat electric vehicles like computers, cell phones, and TVs that we toss after a few years and have no value, or will the used market provide a means to keep these cars on the road. There are a whole lot of people who will never own a new car or even a used under warranty, and they rely on the ability to purchase an old car at an affordable price.

It's my belief that a whole lot of the hesitancy about EVs is the general public seeing them as disposable electronics rather than cars with retained value. I'm curious to see where opinions go in the future and whether battery replacements and upgrades will become more affordable or if there might even become subsidies to keep older EVs in working order and on the road.

Philosophical pondering over now ?

 

[laua]

Last but not least, Taycan battery is removable, so given large enough market, there will be 3rd party replacement batteries (see how many non-OEM Dyson vacuum batteries are out there today ).

Precisely this. Economics will drive people to provide solutions especially since there’s no fundamental reason you can’t replace the battery.

I look back to the evolution of mobile phones and batteries, it has gone from mostly a DIY, complicated and/or costly procedure to the present state with repair kits from ifixit for easy DIY, too-many-to-count third party battery replacement services, and affordable options from Apple itself that have extended my various Apple gadgets lifecycles well beyond expected (my kids still use my 7 plus!).

There, replacement battery prices have dropped like a rock, even when the actual price of the gadget is relatively low. With car prices at multiples of phones and tablets, there’s definitely going to be affordable repair/replacement services in the future. Just depends on when. If there isn’t - we should raise capital here to start one![/QUOTE]

 

[Dr Bob]

Last but not least, Taycan battery is removable, so given large enough market, there will be 3rd party replacement batteries (see how many non-OEM Dyson vacuum batteries are out there today )

I think this is the key point - but will the market be large enough and will the 3rd parties have enough access to how the batteries integrate with the car? The battery cells in the Taycan will be standard available cells (in another thread DougFrisk identified they are LG Chem NMC cells) so easy to obtain but there will be a huge amount of IP invested in how to integrate the cells into the 'battery' ie the heating, the cooling, the BMS and then how that integrates with the charging modules and charge ports. As models evolve and new ones appear, will there be enough of a market for the 'interim' models? Not a clue.
Let's not even talk about battery chemistry changing.
There will also be a much bigger 2nd hand markets from EV batteries. I dont know what the specs are but for an EV, the battery has to be able to deliver a charge of 2 or 3C for a set period of time. If it cant meet that spec then it cant really be used in a car (poor perfomance/range/etc) - its not all about capacity. There are many other uses however for a Lithium battery other than powering a 0-60mph in 3 seconds EV. I am using 10 year old LiFePO4 cells for domestic batteries on my boat. Bought them 2nd hand for 25% of the cost of new ones. They dont need to discharge at 2 or 3C. There will be a big market for old EV batteries before we even talk of recycling. Storing energy in a house from Solar to feed back into the grid at 5pm each day?
In 10 years time, I feel things will be a lot different in the battery world. For now leasing or a buy back deal is a good way forward. Overall, I am pretty amazed at just how well these batteries are performing long term.

 

[whitex]

dont know what the specs are but for an EV, the battery has to be able to deliver a charge of 2 or 3C for a set period of time. If it cant meet that spec then it cant really be used in a car (poor perfomance/range/etc) - its not all about capacity. There are many other uses however for a Lithium battery other than powering a 0-60mph in 3 seconds EV. I am using 10 year old LiFePO4 cells for domestic batteries on my boat. Bought them 2nd hand for 25% of the cost of new ones. They dont need to discharge at 2 or 3C. There will be a big market for old EV batteries before we even talk of recycling. Storing energy in a house from Solar to feed back into the grid at 5pm each day?
In 10 years time, I feel things will be a lot different in the battery world. For now leasing or a buy back deal is a good way forward. Overall, I am pretty amazed at just how well these batteries are performing long term.

https://www.autoweek.com/news/techn...using-ev-battery-packs-to-store-solar-energy/

https://www.businessinsider.com/ele...ling-nissan-plan-leaf-grid-repurposing-2023-1

Also, a number of DYI solutions out there already.

On the other hand Teslas plan for their latest batteries is to recycle them by grinding them into essentially a "very rich ore". They are building their batteries to be non-serviceable but easily grindable for this purpose.

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