Is preheat killing my range or is this normal?

[ct4s]

My battery % and indicated range is plummeting much faster than expected; and I had low expectations to start with.
For example, the car had an indicated 72% charge and 168 miles showing on Tuesday night. When I got to work today (Fri am), I’d driven a total of 30 miles and the battery was showing 21% and 45 miles.
So, a drop of an indicated 123 miles verses an actual 30 driven!
During my 5.5 mile commute today the battery dropped 4% and 11 miles (measured when I got in the car, so after the preheat).

I wasn’t expecting the Taycan to be an efficient car, but was hoping for a little better than this and hoped the range would be reasonably accurate.

Is the preheat timer likely causing a massive impact and am I using / understanding it correctly?
I like to have the cabin warm (22 degrees) with the seats (lowest setting) and wheel heated when I get it in. And I have used the app to set a timer to do this Tue to Fri.
I don’t need the battery to be pre conditioned. I don’t yet have a home charger, so it’s not plugged it at home. Temp this week has been is circa 2 - 7%.
I’ve been using the timer function 4 days a week for my journey to and from work.
My commute is only 5.5 miles each way with reasonably fast country roads, so moderate to heavy acceleration and braking with practically no regen or coasting. So, not a journey for hypermiling but that’s fine because it only takes 8 mins and I never get stuck in traffic.

Any thoughts?

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[MAPC]

My battery % and indicated range is plummeting much faster than expected; and I had low expectations to start with.
For example, the car had an indicated 72% charge and 168 miles showing on Tuesday night. When I got to work today (Fri am), I’d driven a total of 30 miles and the battery was showing 21% and 45 miles.
So, a drop of an indicated 123 miles verses an actual 30 driven!
During my 5.5 mile commute today the battery dropped 4% and 11 miles (measured when I got in the car, so after the preheat).

I wasn’t expecting the Taycan to be an efficient car, but was hoping for a little better than this and hoped the range would be reasonably accurate.

Is the preheat timer likely causing a massive impact and am I using / understanding it correctly?
I like to have the cabin warm (22 degrees) with the seats (lowest setting) and wheel heated when I get it in. And I have used the app to set a timer to do this Tue to Fri.
I don’t need the battery to be pre conditioned. I don’t yet have a home charger, so it’s not plugged it at home. Temp this week has been is circa 2 - 7%.
I’ve been using the timer function 4 days a week for my journey to and from work.
My commute is only 5.5 miles each way with reasonably fast country roads, so moderate to heavy acceleration and braking with practically no regen or coasting. So, not a journey for hypermiling but that’s fine because it only takes 8 mins and I never get stuck in traffic.

Any thoughts?

Something doesn’t sound right. I routinely preheat and at 85% I am around 200 miles. I drive about 30 miles per day in total and usually end up at around 165 miles remaining.

 

[Scandinavian]

No that does not sound normal at all. Such high drain on the battery sounds like a visit to Porsche service is needed to check the battery

 

[I888I]

My battery % and indicated range is plummeting much faster than expected; and I had low expectations to start with.
For example, the car had an indicated 72% charge and 168 miles showing on Tuesday night. When I got to work today (Fri am), I’d driven a total of 30 miles and the battery was showing 21% and 45 miles.
So, a drop of an indicated 123 miles verses an actual 30 driven!
During my 5.5 mile commute today the battery dropped 4% and 11 miles (measured when I got in the car, so after the preheat).

I wasn’t expecting the Taycan to be an efficient car, but was hoping for a little better than this and hoped the range would be reasonably accurate.

Is the preheat timer likely causing a massive impact and am I using / understanding it correctly?
I like to have the cabin warm (22 degrees) with the seats (lowest setting) and wheel heated when I get it in. And I have used the app to set a timer to do this Tue to Fri.
I don’t need the battery to be pre conditioned. I don’t yet have a home charger, so it’s not plugged it at home. Temp this week has been is circa 2 - 7%.
I’ve been using the timer function 4 days a week for my journey to and from work.
My commute is only 5.5 miles each way with reasonably fast country roads, so moderate to heavy acceleration and braking with practically no regen or coasting. So, not a journey for hypermiling but that’s fine because it only takes 8 mins and I never get stuck in traffic.

Any thoughts?

In my experience, the pre-heating (mainly of the cabin, chairs and steering wheel, but the battery also heats up) best works while the car is still plugged in with an AC charger. The conditioning happens with energy from the net, and the battery is topped up (I keep it at 85%).

Pre-heating from the battery is only useful when the car is frozen (cold winter mornings), to prepare to drive, but creating a 22°C cabin temperature from the battery isn’t very efficient.

just my 2 cents of thought…

Bart

 

[ct4s]

In my experience, the pre-heating (mainly of the cabin, chairs and steering wheel, but the battery also heats up) best works while the car is still plugged in with an AC charger. The conditioning happens with energy from the net, and the battery is topped up (I keep it at 85%).

Pre-heating from the battery is only useful when the car is frozen (cold winter mornings), to prepare to drive, but creating a 22°C cabin temperature from the battery isn’t very efficient.

just my 2 cents of thought…

Bart

Yep, not efficient, but one of the great benefits of the car's features.
The charger is being fitting in just over a week and dealer visit is planned 2 weeks after that.
I'll keep monitoring and update this post if anything useful comes of it.

 

[2P168S]

I don't preheat often but wonder if you are just seeing normal consumption for this type of drive cycle.

My car is very inefficient at short, low speed trips but reasonably efficient at longer, higher speed trips.

On a typical short trip for me, about 4 miles and averaging about 12 mph, I see around 350Wh/mi in the summer and 500Wh/mi in the winter.

On a typical long trip for me, about 30 minutes and averaging about 60 mph, I see around 280Wh/mi in the summer and 330Wh/mi in the winter.

It is still somewhat confusing to me- in my previous EVs the local trips were always more efficient than the highway trips- but this is what I see.

 

[f1eng]

Is the preheat timer likely causing a massive impact and am I using / understanding it correctly?

I have never tried the pre-heat when the car isn’t plugged in but the amount of electricity it uses mainly depends on how cold the battery is. Mine seems to get the battery to 15C and that is hundreds of kilos to warm up, I see 2.7 to 3.7 kWh used on my Andersen box between the charge being complete and the timer going off so a fair bit.

If I just want a warm cabin I set the process off from my phone about 10-15 minutes before I leave which is time to warm up the cabin but hasn’t been warming the battery for long.
2 things to note, firstly don’t forget to switch off from the phone app too otherwise the heating will continue for the hour after you get to work and secondly the performance is markedly better with a warm battery and you won’t get that in 10 minutes.

 

[ct4s]

Thanks all.

Is there any way to preheat the cabin but not the battery?

And if I manually start the preheat from the app (rather than using a timer) 10 mins before I get in, is there any way to automatically get the car to cancel the manual preheat once I drive off? (Which seems like an obvious and logical way it should work).

 

[Caraholic]

Sounds like your battery or a couple cells in it has taken a shit. I would schedule visit soon so hopefully it doesn’t leave you stranded.

 

[Genau]

My battery % and indicated range is plummeting much faster than expected; and I had low expectations to start with.
. . .
Any thoughts?

I recommend you check the cell map with the Car Scanner app.

https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/threads/baseline-for-hv-battery-soh-performance.12815/post-279964​

 

[bn8959]

I’d run a comparison test by not using the timer and starting a preheat from your phone 10 mins before you leave. I believe that a preheat will heat cabin and battery - and if that’s cold, it will take a long time and use a chunk of energy. Preheat only needs 10 mins to get the cabin suitably warm.

 

[W1NGE]

My battery % and indicated range is plummeting much faster than expected; and I had low expectations to start with.
For example, the car had an indicated 72% charge and 168 miles showing on Tuesday night. When I got to work today (Fri am), I’d driven a total of 30 miles and the battery was showing 21% and 45 miles.
So, a drop of an indicated 123 miles verses an actual 30 driven!
During my 5.5 mile commute today the battery dropped 4% and 11 miles (measured when I got in the car, so after the preheat).

I wasn’t expecting the Taycan to be an efficient car, but was hoping for a little better than this and hoped the range would be reasonably accurate.

Is the preheat timer likely causing a massive impact and am I using / understanding it correctly?
I like to have the cabin warm (22 degrees) with the seats (lowest setting) and wheel heated when I get it in. And I have used the app to set a timer to do this Tue to Fri.
I don’t need the battery to be pre conditioned. I don’t yet have a home charger, so it’s not plugged it at home. Temp this week has been is circa 2 - 7%.
I’ve been using the timer function 4 days a week for my journey to and from work.
My commute is only 5.5 miles each way with reasonably fast country roads, so moderate to heavy acceleration and braking with practically no regen or coasting. So, not a journey for hypermiling but that’s fine because it only takes 8 mins and I never get stuck in traffic.

Any thoughts?

Some thoughts:

1. Best to compare with other UK based owners as invariably comparisons with others particularly where the ambient temp is higher will muddy the waters.

2. It is not possible to preheat / precondition your battery unless you use NAV with the destination set to a DC 50 kW EVSE or higher. At home, the act of charging or preheating your cabin will naturally cause a chemical reaction within the battery which warms it up a little.

3. Low ambients, short journeys, spirited driving will force the PCM to make certain range judgements as it learns your driving routine. It can take a while to relearn and generally a lower reported estimated range is what you end up with.

4. Charging and preheating at home will only use shore power during the charging session. A timer on its own set to preheat the cabin will use the battery and not shore / grid power. Even if your EVSE is connected. To do this you need to ensure the charging window encompasses your departure window.

5. Reported range estimate can fluctuate dramatically at this time of year. I generally see my reported range drop 10 miles within a mile or so as the assumption is that I'm going to do another short journey and I'm going to keep my AC at 22C for example. These miles don't magically reappear on the estimate.

6. Worry more about consumption data using the figure reported in Total Trip and never reset this reading. A good number is 3.0 miles / kWh or ideally higher. Use this number and multiply by 83.9 (if you have the performance battery plus) to get a more realistic measure of your actual range. You will be pleasantly surprised or shocked depending.

7. There may not be an issue but keep an eye on it.

 

[MarkR]

My battery % and indicated range is plummeting much faster than expected; and I had low expectations to start with.
For example, the car had an indicated 72% charge and 168 miles showing on Tuesday night. When I got to work today (Fri am), I’d driven a total of 30 miles and the battery was showing 21% and 45 miles.
So, a drop of an indicated 123 miles verses an actual 30 driven!
During my 5.5 mile commute today the battery dropped 4% and 11 miles (measured when I got in the car, so after the preheat).

I wasn’t expecting the Taycan to be an efficient car, but was hoping for a little better than this and hoped the range would be reasonably accurate.

Is the preheat timer likely causing a massive impact and am I using / understanding it correctly?
I like to have the cabin warm (22 degrees) with the seats (lowest setting) and wheel heated when I get it in. And I have used the app to set a timer to do this Tue to Fri.
I don’t need the battery to be pre conditioned. I don’t yet have a home charger, so it’s not plugged it at home. Temp this week has been is circa 2 - 7%.
I’ve been using the timer function 4 days a week for my journey to and from work.
My commute is only 5.5 miles each way with reasonably fast country roads, so moderate to heavy acceleration and braking with practically no regen or coasting. So, not a journey for hypermiling but that’s fine because it only takes 8 mins and I never get stuck in traffic.

Any thoughts?

This doesn't sound right. I get circa 200+ miles on 85% charge, and with local journeys of a couple of miles and preheating, the battery only goes down by a small percentage, about 2-3%. Even with slightly longer journeys, the range drops by an expected amount in line with the miles I have travelled. I would suggest getting this checked. Hope you get it resolved.

 

[f1eng]

Thanks all.

Is there any way to preheat the cabin but not the battery?

And if I manually start the preheat from the app (rather than using a timer) 10 mins before I get in, is there any way to automatically get the car to cancel the manual preheat once I drive off? (Which seems like an obvious and logical way it should work).

I assumed it would work that way and it was only by accident after a short drive I noticed on the app it was still running when I arrived and since then have cancelled it manually.
It does seem a bit daft but takes all of 5 seconds to resolve manually.

 

[f1eng]

A timer on its own set to preheat the cabin will use the battery and not shore / grid power

This is not the case on my 2022 car. I did an experiment to check. If I set the timer for a percentage charge and a departure time I get an alert from the app 1 hour before that time telling me the car is charged and the dispenser current stops and the charge light goes white, then some time later - it seems entirely dependant on how cold the battery is - the green charge light comes on again and the dispenser shows around 5kW being supplied and the total during this hour was between 2.6 kWh and 3.6kWh supplied (I have only tested the procedure 3 times). The battery has been heated from cold to around 15C during this period.

I would imagine that in summer no battery heating would be required and when very cold it requires more, the software decides and whilst in winter this power use heating the battery is not negligible it does not explain the range problems.

2. It is not possible to preheat / precondition your battery unless you use NAV with the destination set to a DC 50 kW EVSE or higher.

See above.
Mine does.

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