Taycan vs. Voyager 1 - OTA Update support…

[daveo4EV]

one vehicle can do OTA updates - the other can't…

https://www.yahoo.com/news/voyager-1-sends-back-science-220411859.html

A single chip responsible for storing part of the system’s memory, including some of the computer’s software code, isn’t working properly and the loss of the code on the chip caused Voyager 1’s science and engineering data to be unusable.

Since there is no way to repair the chip, the team stored the affected code from the chip elsewhere in the system’s memory. They couldn’t pinpoint a location large enough to hold all the code, so they divided it into sections and stored it in different spots within the flight data system.

amazing engineering - and yeah - VW/Audi/Porsche - let's get our act together - OTA updates can be done from 15 billion miles away from earth, but I still need to take my Porsche's into a dealership for a week to have a USB thumb drive inserted into the vehicle (like a thumb up the as*) to get my PCM to stop glitching…

but amazing engineering/science in the article linked - I'm in awe of JPL

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[Jasper4S]

Thats not OTA, thats TS (through space). Thats easier. ?

 

[eisenb11]

To be fair, Voyager 1 cost $250 million in 1977 dollars which is now about $1.3 billion in 2024 dollars.

But the fact that the Tesla Model 3 at $41k is doing OTA... well, I digress...

one vehicle can do OTA updates - the other can't…

https://www.yahoo.com/news/voyager-1-sends-back-science-220411859.html



amazing engineering - and yeah - VW/Audi/Porsche - let's get our act together - OTA updates can be done from 15 billion miles away from earth, but I still need to take my Porsche's into a dealership for a week to have a USB thumb drive inserted into the vehicle (like a thumb up the as*) to get my PCM to stop glitching…

but amazing engineering/science in the article linked - I'm in awe of JPL

 

[WasserGKuehlt]

I wouldn't say that any geo has a lock on "skilled programmers" (though the Bay Area does demonstrate a preponderance of those skilled in "let's hack some shit and get bought".. damn it, I'm digressing in the first paragraph), nor that the skill of the programmers/team guarantees the release of a solid, robust bit of software. It's more that software, beyond a certain level of complexity, eludes verifiable correctness. And so you have to keep testing/stressing it, fix, and iterate - quickly.

Tesla didn't have a choice not to have their cars being software-defined: they didn't want to pay for buttons, didn't have a service network, there's always bugs and so quick, remote fixing of issues was essential to their survival. I'm sure it took many iterations for their remote delivery (and patching) to become so reliable.

For some reason, every manufacturer seems to interpret "EV" as being synonymous with "fully digital" (in part probably because it's a rare chance to start anew, in part because the savings help offset the cost of that new start etc.). Subsequently, and specifically over there at VAG, I think the problem was of a different nature - they obviously did not see the need for a software-defined-car, but instead saw an opportunity to create a software platform for all vehicles, from their own brands or competitors, from existing models until the end of time. (I believe the technical term is "delusions of grandeur".) No one has ever shipped software on time, but VAG thought it could pin its fundamental EV bets on a newly-founded software team/group/org/company. And we know how that went: grandiose plans -> delays -> release buggy software -> fire LT/hire new LT and repeat.

Put simply, not only do they lack focus on executing the plan, but their goals and priorities are not aligned with the wishes of, evidently, a sizeable part of their clientele. It's going to be very hard to get the marketing chief at Porsche, for instance, to accept that OTA sells cars, and therefore should be an important deliverable for Cariad.

Honestly, my expectations of software, generally speaking, are extremely low (if it doesn't crash, it's brilliant - and goes up from there). I can definitely see how throngs of newcomers to Porsche are incredulously asking "it doesn't do what? for <price>? GTFO!!". I am, however, dismayed to see long-term owners/drivers giving in to the idea that sw is central to EVism, and thus giving up on the brand. Oh well.

 

[WasserGKuehlt]

To be fair, Voyager 1 cost $250 million in 1977 dollars which is now about $1.3 billion in 2024 dollars.

But the fact that the Tesla Model 3 at $41k is doing OTA... well, I digress...

Just to clarify, are you comparing the cost of a project with an output of 1 unit, with the cost of 1 unit from a project that cost 10s of billions? (Not that the capability itself isn't downright impressive in each of those cases..)

 

[eisenb11]

Actually the total cost in 1977 was about $325M since it actually covered 2 units of output. So closer to $1.7B today. Last I read, it sounded like the Taycan development was about $800M-ish… not sure where you got the $10s of billions number from? I think you may be looking at Porsche’s green car investment portfolio, but the Mission E (Taycan) development was a relatively small part of that.

Just to clarify, are you comparing the cost of a project with an output of 1 unit, with the cost of 1 unit from a project that cost 10s of billions? (Not that the capability itself isn't downright impressive in each of those cases..)

 

[WasserGKuehlt]

Actually the total cost in 1977 was about $325M since it actually covered 2 units of output. So closer to $1.7B today. Last I read, it sounded like the Taycan development was about $800M-ish… not sure where you got the $10s of billions number from? I think you may be looking at Porsche’s green car investment portfolio, but the Mission E (Taycan) development was a relatively small part of that.

You compared the Voyager (and yes, I wasn’t sure if the figure covered both ships) with Tesla Model 3. It took Tesla tens of billions from inception to the point where they shipped a 41k car with OTA. Not that the OTA capability was the main difficulty/target of the investment in either project, but it wasn’t my comparison.. ?

 

[Vercingetorix]

@daveo4EV We get it. We all understand Porsche software sucks. We do not need a weekly thread about how Porsche software sucks.

 

[eisenb11]

Oooooooh! lol

I think there was a misunderstanding. OP compared the Taycan to the Voyager so I jokingly mentioned that Voyager was a lot more expensive.

But then I compared the Taycan to the Model 3 and was sad because Porsche isn't leveraging OTA to the extent that Tesla does.

You compared the Voyager (and yes, I wasn’t sure if the figure covered both ships) with Tesla Model 3. It took Tesla tens of billions from inception to the point where they shipped a 41k car with OTA. Not that the OTA capability was the main difficulty/target of the investment in either project, but it wasn’t my comparison.. ?

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