2020 Taycan Turbo vs. Laguna Seca w/Hooked on Driving [Lap Data & Impressions Added]

[Christian J]

It's remarkable how flat the car appears while cornering. How do you call up the max reading in the G-meter?

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[daveo4EV]

once you have the g-meter display on the dash - you then press the right hand steering wheel scroll-button and you can select the display mode - and that is also where you “reset” the g-meter.

 

[NC_Taycan]

The G meter, max G and sport chrono can almost be a tad distracting on the track. It's just too tempting to look down and see if you set a new max G after killing that last turn, or if you are focused on hitting the right steering wheel button for lap timer but should be worried about your line or braking.

 

[daveo4EV]

Originally Posted by rennlist user

Sounds like a fun day.

I'm surprised to hear about the overheating, given Porsche's previous statements on that topic.

yes I was surprised as well - but again keep in mind - it is still way way way better than the Model S - I've lapped a 2013 P85 and a 2014 P85D at Laguna - and neither vehicle could complete an entire hot lap at full power - so if you put yourself in Porsche's position where they admitted they were comparing themselves to the Model S - a solid 7-8 full hot laps is DRAMATICALLY better than the Model S - and it seems to be about 15-16 minutes of "solid" hot lap which is about 2 'ring laps…so they have vastly improved over their competition (the Model S) but they are still not up to the endurance of their gasoline vehicles…and it's not unheard up for even gasoline vehicles to not be able to run a full 25 minutes session (corvette I'm looking at you!!!)…

the problem I have it that I was also more hopeful given Porsche's statements - and between porsche starting the Taycan program and shipping it the world moved on - and the Model 3 performance based on my personal testing can complete 6-7 full hot laps before throttling itself - so the Taycan is still better, but not up to a full 25 minute DE session…

conditions were ideal also - clear sunny, cool, 58F or lower temps, and the vehicle still "overheated"…

NOTE: when he vehicle goes into limp mode the indicated battery temperature was 132F…car had full power at 131F, and once battery temp hit 132F car was down on power, there were no warnings, but car was sugglish - "pwoermeter" on the main dash - blue-circular-bar on the right of the dash indicating power could not get past approximately the 2:30 clock position on the dial (vs. 5:00 for full power)

interesting to me facts:

• solid 6 hot laps at laguna until full power during first morning session…1:46.xx lap times
• it was lap 7 or 8 where I finally noticed loss of power - not expecting power loss I thought I was imagining the car being slower
  • after I was in that state for a while I finally noticed the dash - and when "flat out" I only had like 40% power indicated on main dash
• NO warnings - car was rock solid and very very quiet about this state
• battery temp on track was 132F (normal temps in my 5000 miles since July are 67-92F)
• I lost power session #1 - first morning session 9 am - it was very very cool out less than 55F - I failed to note exact temperature
• battery temp at beginning of session 1 was 74F or slightly less
• battery temp remained 132F while on track
• exiting track session early - I did a cool down lap, and took the exit between turns 10 & 11 - and I was in garage 16 - by the time I exited the track and arrived in my garage battery temp had dropped to 127F (time elapsed less than 4 minutes)
• car rested for a hour between session 1 & 2
• I charged the car from garage 30 amp NEMA 6-30 - from 43% to 49% in approximately 55 minutes between sessions
• battery temp at start of session #2 was 81/82F
• I completed at least 3 hot laps at full power - I came in on lap 4 or 5 due to low battery SOC (20% or less) - warning pop'd up on dash - so I did cool down lap to come in - need battery to drive from track to seaside EVGo for lunchtime fast charge
• battery temp exiting session #2 was 129F
• packed the vehicle to make trip to fast charger while charging on NEMA 6-30
• drove 12 minutes to Seaside EVGo
• battery temp upon arriving at Seaside EVGo was 95F or less
• I did two 45 minute EVGo fast charging sessions
• battery temp leaving EVGo was 87F or less
• arrvived back at track at 1:30'ish PM
• plugged into NEMA 6-30 in garage
• went out for 4th HOD session - C group - 2:05 PM - forgot to note battery temp - this was my 3rd session of the day - I had to skip HOD session #3 while fast charging
• completed at least 3 or 4 hot laps - encounter power throttling
• I completed 2 full cool down laps on track - 1/3rd pace attempting to "'cool" the battery
• it mostly worked - at completion of 2nd cool down lap - upon exiting turn 11 I nailed it for one final hot lap
• car responded well and I had full power again but I was again throttled by exit of turn 6 - so I could not complete a full hot lap after two cool down laps
• temps at track were mild, afternoon temps were 60F or less
• given lack of full power I aborted the 3rd session for the day at 34% battery and 132F battery temp and brought the vehicle in.
• drive home was uneventful and I arrive home at 85F battery temp…

based on my experience at Laguna the 2020 Taycan Turbo is good for a solid 14-16 minutes of hot laps in cool weather - after that you WILL experience power throttling - normal driving in this condition is no problem, but hard driving will quickly return the vehicle to it's neutered state - 14-16 minutes of hard drive makes the 2020 Taycan Turbo the most capable production EV I've personally experienced and is best in class for production EV's at this time and a dramatic improvement over my experience (and other's) with the Tesla Model S (again my 2 model S's could not even do a single full hot lap @ laguna in my personal experience) - the Taycan is still the best EV on track, but only marginally better than a Model 3 performance based on my personal experience (from a stamina point of view) - both the Taycan and the Model 3 can not complete a full 25 minute DE session at full power based on my experience.

In the none stamina categories (braking, acceleration, handling, competence) and what not the Taycan is dramatically better than the Model 3 - the model 3's stock factory performance brakes are DONE after 3 full hot laps at Laguna…before the vehicle enters power throttling mode - the Taycan's brakes were magnificent (PCCB's) and show no signed of fatigue or fade even after pounding 6 or 7 hot laps from a 5,100 lbs sedan doing over 120 mph in turn 1 into the turn 2 braking zone…porsche brakes are my favorite feature of Porsche's and they are stunningly good - there is NO comparison vs. other EV's on track…

but the Taycan shows similar stamina limitations at this time as the Model 3 and other EV's I've experienced.

 

[daveo4EV]

based on my experience if one want to track the taycan and work to achieve an optimal lap time the recipe would be as follows:

• you need at least 125 kW DCFast charger at the track
• 1 out lap
• 3 hot laps
• 1 cool down lap
• after 3 hot laps not only are you pushing the battery temps, but the tires are also gettin greasy - heavy heavy car - normal street tires just aren't going to handle more than 4 full hot laps
• bring the car in - adjust tires, temps, pressures, rest the car and fast charge it - you probably used at least 40% battery on the previous session
• rest how ever long it takes to get back to 85-90% battery SOC
• repeat the 1 out lap - 3 hot laps - then come in - that in my opinion is the best way to track a taycan.
• NOTE: you may be able to do 4 full hot laps rather than 3 - adjust to suite - but no more than 5…

 

[NC_Taycan]

based on my experience if one want to track the taycan and work to achieve an optimal lap time the recipe would be as follows:

• you need at least 125 kW DCFast charger at the track
• 1 out lap
• 3 hot laps
• 1 cool down lap
• after 3 hot laps not only are you pushing the battery temps, but the tires are also gettin greasy - heavy heavy car - normal street tires just aren't going to handle more than 4 full hot laps
• bring the car in - adjust tires, temps, pressures, rest the car and fast charge it - you probably used at least 40% battery on the previous session
• rest how ever long it takes to get back to 85-90% battery SOC
• repeat the 1 out lap - 3 hot laps - then come in - that in my opinion is the best way to track a taycan.
• NOTE: you may be able to do 4 full hot laps rather than 3 - adjust to suite - but no more than 5…

Did you measure tire temps or at least pressure changes?

 

[Gubbjaevel]

Late in on this one - appreciate the read!

I'll be tracking my car next year so all information is good information!

I don't get this one: Explain?

 

[Miwa]

Late in on this one - appreciate the read!

I'll be tracking my car next year so all information is good information!

I don't get this one: Explain?

It says your peak acceration was 6.08m/s^2. As in, you pulled .62G force in the forward direction.

 

[daveo4EV]

Did you measure tire temps or at least pressure changes?

I didn't measure before session #1 - but I did after the session - fronts were 48/49 PSI, and rears were 52/53 PSI hot right off the track after the 1st session

I bled them down to 42 psi fronts (hot) and 44 psi rear (hot) - I'm remiss to bring them much lower given how heavy the vehicle is - after the 2nd session I didn't measure externally - but the internal car sensors on the dash indicated 36 psi fronts and 39 psi while I was "resting" at the fast charger in seaside…

I did not get another "read" with hot pressures any more that day - as I was more focused on management of the battery temp and SOC…

but the initial temp rise from the first session was quite large...and I brought the pressures down for the 2nd and 3rd sessions - no further optimization was attempted.

 

[NC_Taycan]

I didn't measure before session #1 - but I did after the session - fronts were 48/49 PSI, and rears were 52/53 PSI hot right off the track after the 1st session

I bled them down to 42 psi fronts (hot) and 44 psi rear (hot) - I'm remiss to bring them much lower given how heavy the vehicle is - after the 2nd session I didn't measure externally - but the internal car sensors on the dash indicated 36 psi fronts and 39 psi while I was "resting" at the fast charger in seaside…

I did not get another "read" with hot pressures any more that day - as I was more focused on management of the battery temp and SOC…

but the initial temp rise from the first session was quite large...and I brought the pressures down for the 2nd and 3rd sessions - no further optimization was attempted.

That seems high. One thing I noticed is that the pressure label on the driver door sill indicates the full load cold tire pressure, not the partial load pressure. The left instrument cluster pod (or corresponding PCM screen) will tell you the partial load fill pressure. I'd expect you to start with the partial load fill pressure minus 2 PSI, anticipating 6 PSI or so of gain due to temperature.

 

[Gubbjaevel]

It says your peak acceration was 6.08m/s^2. As in, you pulled .62G force in the forward direction.

Hmm, I should have been more clear: Why is the forward G value so "off" from the rest?
Would expect to see ~1.13...

 

[daveo4EV]

on track you strive for smooth driving inputs nothing sudden - you’re not doing launch control you’re applying smooth acceleration inputs - you can’t exceed more than 1 g acceleration with normal street tires (or even anywhere close) - braking you’re slowing down the car from extreme speeds at ‘grip threshold’, and cornering at speed (turn 6 & 9) you are throwing 5,100 lbs of mass from one side to the other - however acceleration you are “adding speed” smoothly, not stabbing at the accelerator…and simply transitioning from a lower rolling speed to adding power to achieve a higher speed…

if you plot the entire envelope of g-forces for most any track usage with street tires you’ll see a “flat” bottom because most car’s can’t accelerate in a manner where they are at the tire’s grip thresh-hold.

 

[daveo4EV]

you can try it for yourself - some day when you’re out on the road and there are no cars around (in front or behind) and there is plenty of space - reset the g-meter in your Porsche (any porsche) - get down to a rolling speed of 20 or 30 mph and simply and smoothly add power - the car simply can’t achieve anywhere close to 1g in forward acceleration - and the nannies wouldn’t let it do so even if it could…

it’s not the same as the maximum forces you can achieve from a standing start with launch control.

 

[Mike V]

This all a 918 does at Mid-Ohio on Cup2 (N0) sport tires.

The 0.9g was (maybe) leaving the pits in a hurry.

Here's a GT2RS at Mid-Ohio on Cup2 (N2) stickier tires and a 500 pounds lighter (15%) car with 25% less power.

 

[wdl]

To answer the question wether or not regen was on. It was clearly on

@Neptune the vehicle was in Sports Plus mode for all 3 sessions - I did not turn regen ”off” but I also did not turn it “on”

where is the setting to disable regen?

Regen icon is active in this picture. So I assume it was on?

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