Class action filed Sept 25 against Porsche

[69Mach390]

Try to claim Porsche warranty after repairing your car not to manufacturer specifications, they will tell you that they don't honor warranty if the car was not repaired to manufacturer's specifications. In other words, in order to keep warranty you have to repair the car back to at least manufacturer specifications. They use this reasoning whenever justifying why insurance should be paying for Porsche certified repair shops. Do you think they would be willing to say in court that Porsche don't need to be repaired back to Porsche specifications, i.e. they will not void any warranties, even if you pay some backwoods shop to repair your Porsche to half the specs (say suspension to half the rated strength, or battery wiring with half the ampacity)? Insurance companies would love such an official declaration from Porsche.

Yeah, that’s on you, not them.

Again, the warranty language is written to protect them not you.

You and others are claiming they’re breaching the contract without showing any proof of the part of the contract they’re breaching.

Post the actual language in the contract that backs up what you are claiming.

Porsche knows their contract language quite well. And I would bet that in this case, they’re following the contract they wrote.

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[Gino]

Sorry this has happened. These 22kW chargers on J.1 Taycans are indeed failing for a number of owners. I had mine replaced under warranty in the first year after I bought it.

Class actions are a US thing. We have lots of other consumer protection law in the UK but thankfully we do not live in a litigation-centred country.

The general advice on this forum has always been: get an extended warranty. And Porsche Assist or some other sort of breakdown cover eg AA/RAC/Green Flag/etc, although it seems you have that so I don't understand where the £435 comes from.

Without a warranty. you could look at whether consumer law provides you with other protections on the basis that the 22kW design is not viable and therefore not of merchantable quality. But your first recourse is a proper conversation with management at the dealership and correspondence with Porsche GB.

Regarding replacing a 22kW charger with an 11kW version, I agree that this is unsatisfactory and perhaps some modest compensation would be appropriate. However do you actually need 22kW? The number of places with actually useful 22kW chargers in the UK is very small -- a few people have them at work, and a few have 3-phase power at home, but it's much less common than in, say, Germany. The J.2 Taycan does not have 22kW at all by the way.

It’s actually quite silly to suggest someone doesn’t need 22kw charging.
Porsche offered it as an option to buyers who want to charge twice as fast at home. Since range on J1s can be far less than 200 miles when driving in high heat with AC on or bitter cold with the heat on at 80+ mph. When I drive to Las Vegas in high heat at 80-90 mph I’m lucky if I get 160 miles from a 100% so I have to charge to at least 90% twice on my way out as well as on the way back. I would love to have a 22kw charger so I could charge it in my garage in half the time.
If I could only have one charger active at a time and had two EVs then I would want them to charge as quickly as possible at the lowest charging cost.
It’s just another option no different than the small battery & larger performance battery or the standard RWD & the turbo. If Porsche sold it then they should either support it or give you your money back for the option at a minimum. Where is gets tricky is expecting Porsche to buy back the car because they no longer support the configuration you purchased. This does have merit IMO since you might have purchased another brand if you couldn’t get the configuration you wanted when you ordered.
As one of the previous posts stated… “no one needs a Porsche so any purchase is considered an indulgence not a necessity”.
I would simply want what I paid for.

 

[anonymouse]

It’s actually quite silly to suggest someone doesn’t need 22kw charging.
Porsche offered it as an option to buyers who want to charge twice as fast at home.

Thank you but the OP is from the UK, you are from the US. It's a different story in the US.

In the UK almost NOONE has 3-phase power (required on a 240V system to deliver 22kW) at home. And putting it in can cost £10,000 because they need to dig up the street. There are of course exceptions. And a few individuals who have paid for 3-phase power.

In the UK some people have 22kW charging at work although they probably charge at home overnight anyway. And others have used 22kW hotels. In Europe, 22kW is more common in on-street chargers. But these are mostly edge cases.

I paid for a 22kW option on my first Taycan and used it twice (in Germany). And I stand by the view that 95-99% of UK owners do not need 22kW. This is probably part of the thinking behind deleting this option on the J1.2 (which I now have, and am generally content not to have 22kW).

 

[whitex]

And I stand by the view that 95-99% of UK owners do not need 22kW.

In your opinion, what percentage of UK owners need a Porsche, vs. some other cheaper car?

 

[Gino]

Thank you but the OP is from the UK, you are from the US. It's a different story in the US.

In the UK almost NOONE has 3-phase power (required on a 240V system to deliver 22kW) at home. And putting it in can cost £10,000 because they need to dig up the street. There are of course exceptions. And a few individuals who have paid for 3-phase power.

In the UK some people have 22kW charging at work although they probably charge at home overnight anyway. And others have used 22kW hotels. In Europe, 22kW is more common in on-street chargers. But these are mostly edge cases.

I paid for a 22kW option on my first Taycan and used it twice (in Germany). And I stand by the view that 95-99% of UK owners do not need 22kW. This is probably part of the thinking behind deleting this option on the J1.2 (which I now have, and am generally content not to have 22kW).

You make all very good points but in the end it was an option you could purchase and all options are a personal choice regardless if you use them or not.
When I first moved to California it was important for me to live within walking/biking distance to the beach which I did and a significant premium in rent initially and once I purchased a home. The only problem is that I’ve never walked to the beach near my home since 1987 and I rode my bike to the beach maybe 5 or 6 times in 40 years but I was able to if I decided to.
This is the same for my Porsche. If I had unlimited funds in my account, begging to be spent then I could have easily bought every option “just in case” I may need all of them or not at all. I could also have bought all the options to improve resale value but I never sell or trade in any of my cars. I don’t care about resale value because I’m more likely to give my old cars to family, relatives or friends.
Obviously Porsche decided the 22KW charger option was something buyers would want & pay for. I don’t care about the reason a customer decided to buy it. That is irrelevant. Porsche is 100% on the hook to make it right. They sold it so they have zero choice but to support it and if they won’t then they cannot be allowed to do a “bait & switch” with owners to take away something after the fact.
I’m glad I didn’t have the 22KW option because I am in the US and would install 208 3 Phase in my existing garage which I can’t but I am looking to buy another property with extra garage spaces which can support 3 phase power for things other than EVs.
For me, one Porsche is not enough. My Boxster got totaled in 2021 so I replaced it with my 2021 Taycan but now I need at least 2 more Porsches, likely a hybrid Macan or Cayenne and an ICE 911 convertible.
Once I fill the extra garage spaces I’m sure I’m going to want something else as long as I can afford what I want so I don’t have to care what options I select or why.
The beauty of personal choices…

 

[whitex]

I’m glad I didn’t have the 22KW option because I am in the US and would install 208 3 Phase in my existing garage which I can’t but I am looking to buy another property with extra garage spaces which can support 3 phase power for things other than EVs.

You do not need 3 phase power in North America to get 19.2kW (which is the max you can draw in N.A. as well). You simply connect the 19.2kW EVSE to 240V and have the car draw 80A (which the optional 19.2kW Porsche OBC does). Even if you imported a Euro 3-phase EVSE, it wouldn't plug into your Taycan, since only a single phase is available at the charge ports. Euro 3 phase is also different voltages, so even a Euro Taycan would probably error out on such a setup.

Businesses which have 3-phase AC power in North America, only connect one phase to North American EVSE's, which max out at 80A. This results in maximum power of 16.6kW (~15kW showing in the car), if you have the 19.2kW upgraded OBC.

 

[Gino]

You do not need 3 phase power in North America to get 19.2kW (which is the max you can draw in N.A. as well). You simply connect the 19.2kW EVSE to 240V and have the car draw 80A (which the optional 19.2kW Porsche OBC does). Even if you imported a Euro 3-phase EVSE, it wouldn't plug into your Taycan, since only a single phase is available at the charge ports. Euro 3 phase is also different voltages, so even a Euro Taycan would probably error out on such a setup.

Businesses which have 3-phase AC power in North America, only connect one phase to North American EVSE's, which max out at 80A. This results in maximum power of 16.6kW (~15kW showing in the car), if you have the 19.2kW upgraded OBC.

You don’t need 3 phase in NA for EVs but for other reasons I want 3 phase in my garage for other tools & systems. I have systems that run on single phase 208V or 220V along with systems which require 208 3 phase and would like this capability in my next garage, a very large garage. The ability to use one leg of the 3 phases for multiple EVs is just a convenience.
I work with systems which require 208 3 phase in the US but also require a power line transformer/conditioner to supply 380 - 400 V ac ± 10%, 3-phase, neutral and earth for the system.
Do I absolutely need this. Of course not. I already have it in the facilities where these systems are installed at customers but I like having the ability to test subsystems in my garage rather than send them back to the factory in Europe.
Everyone has their reasons for wanting 220V/240V or 3 phase in their garage or at their office. For me my garage is my office so I can easily justify the expense.
In my current townhouse I am blocked by the association from adding 220/240 which is why I’m looking for an additional home where I can accommodate 220/240/208 & 380V.
I also require both 60Hz & 50Hz power which is very rare for US residential or commercial properties.
Again it is my preference and sure people may speculate I don’t need it without understanding I want the convenience since I’m always at work. So I want to bring more work home. One of my friends has a complete machine shop in his home. He has his home fully outfitted with the same facilities he has at his manufacturing facility but just on a smaller scale with fewer tools mostly used for testing, research & prototyping.
My justification for 3 phase in my home goes way beyond charging a few EVs which I completely understand is not typical. To each his own…

 

[bn8959]

Remember there are big differences in terminology between UK and UK

We (UK) have 230v nominal phase-to-neutral. Where you are lucky to have 3 phase, it’s true 3 phase - so 3x 230v phase to neutral and therefore 400v phase to phase.

US is a split phase arrangement, so 120v phase to neutral and 208v phase to phase. Both are used in homes commonly.

UK never really talks about the 400v phase to
Phase figure, as it’s never really used in that scenario - unlike US.

 

[whitex]

Remember there are big differences in terminology between UK and US

We (UK) have 230v nominal phase-to-neutral. Where you are lucky to have 3 phase, it’s true 3 phase - so 3x 230v phase to neutral and therefore 400v phase to phase.

US is a split phase arrangement, so 120v phase to neutral and 208v phase to phase. Both are used in homes commonly.

UK never really talks about the 400v phase to
Phase figure, as it’s never really used in that scenario - unlike US.

Excellent summary.

 

[Gino]

Remember there are big differences in terminology between UK and UK

We (UK) have 230v nominal phase-to-neutral. Where you are lucky to have 3 phase, it’s true 3 phase - so 3x 230v phase to neutral and therefore 400v phase to phase.

US is a split phase arrangement, so 120v phase to neutral and 208v phase to phase. Both are used in homes commonly.

UK never really talks about the 400v phase to
Phase figure, as it’s never really used in that scenario - unlike US.

Yes, exactly. I only have 380V-400V 50Hz due to European standard power requirements for the production systems built in Europe.

 

[FIX]

My 22Kw (2021) went out with the red circle of death, and they replaced it with an 11Kw one, they knew right away, and they paid for it. It's for AC and most US houses can't supply enough current for 22Kw, so the 11Kw works fine.

 

[Rik_CT4s]

My turn now.
22 kW onboard very likely. I have written PC to replace by 22 kW OBC as per original specs. The maintenance team mentioned likely to be replaced by 11 kW OBC. I have asked for the 22 kW version, awaiting diagnosis and remedy.
Turbo S CT.
Of course also looking for a proper remedy as I charge at home often >11 kW (solar + grid).

 

[whitex]

Of course also looking for a proper remedy as I charge at home often >11 kW (solar + grid).

A proper remedy for that is a 22kW charger, either one that can go in the Taycan, or an external one which will convert up to 22kW from your solar into DC charge for the Taycan. Of course the remedy should include all the costs of installation, permits, etc.

 

[whitex]

This is the Netherlands...they won't do that.

Are home DC chargers illegal there?

 

[Rik_CT4s]

Are home DC chargers illegal there?

Not much is illegal here
I wait for their initial response after diagnosis, surely in the line "we will replace by 11 kW OBC". Well, also in my user case I often charge at home well above this 11 kW max and I do like it, makes better use of my home system (battery + 19 kWp solar panels + 22 kWh charger at home), however connected to 11 kWh max grid, but I often make use of grid + solar, hence charging well above 11 kWh. Especially from spring tot late summer.

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