UK 12V issue - what should I do?

[daveo4EV]

there is no reason to believe this problem does not affect the entire fleet world wide - the fix will ultimately be software based - or software along with hardware changes (if it’s the case that some piece of hardware is causing the software to be confused).

it’s plain and simple a software fault where the vehicle will run and drain the 12V battery as it remains powered while a software system is running erroniously - the problem has occured with both PMCC and non-PMCC AC chargers in both europe and the US.

a “different” Taycan will not resolve this issue, and to date porsche has no concrete fix identified

they are however determining there are a number of circumstances that can trip up their charging software causing the vehicle’s 12V to die - there is no “ONE” cause, and there is no “ONE” fix - rather the picture emerging from my perspective is that there are a number of conditions under which the vehicle will become confused while charging and draing the 12V battery…

the problem here is that this a whack-a-mole problem in that there is probably a countably infinite number of combinations of circumstances underwhich this problem can occur or not occur…

the fact that we keep hearing about “future updates” with unclear dates means Porsche has no more idea what is going on here than we do…

kudo’s to porsche for the August fix which address some but not all cases of 12V battery drain - we now have two more conditions that we know a fix for:

1. 6 amp charge rate is too little and will cause 12V drain
2. there is some Porsche power management via PLC settings that can also cause problems

#1 can affect _ANY_ charger
#2 explains problems when charging via Porsche hardware but does not explain why/how the car dies when using a non-Porsche charger…

until Porsche has a comprehensize software fix - someting that may not be possible - it is very likely that the entire fleet will continue to be subject to random and unexplained 12V deaths as noted by multiple owners…

the most illuminating aspect of this situation is it is _NOT_ mechanical in nature - it’s a software systems design fault - something Porsche is not historically known for their competence in this space - and something for which their 100’s of years of experience provides no value…

The Taycan is being undone by a lack of experience with software systems and power management. Porsche lenghty response to this problem and their inability to articulate a coherent response show just how far behind they are in understanding the new world of EV’s - the mechanicals where never a quesiton for the taycan, but people questioned their abilty to compete in the software/cloud arena of modern vehicles - the porsche connect app, electrify america apps, the navigation systems charging integration and the 12V battery power management problems demonstrate Porsche is in over it’s head in this space...mechanically the Taycan is world class - the same can not be said of their software systems - the 12V problems are just one very visible manifestation of the problems the auto-industry will face as they come to realize they do not own/control the entire ”stack” of software in their vehicles - this will increasingly become a liability and all the future win’s will be accomplished by controlling software form the cloud to the temperature sensor and everything in between - something Porsche does not do today…

I would not be surprised if porsche never has a fix for this issue - as it may require them to control to software embedded in systems that can not be changed…

time will tell - but this problem is unlike problems car manufacturers have handled in the past - and we are witnessing their lack of skill and ability to deal with complex software systems - with foreseeably laughable results.

Porsche has no idea how to completely resolve this problem - and will continue to thrash while they continue to find new ways in which their charger software can become confused…it’s no one thing that is causing this…

a fix will be interesting.

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[daveo4EV]

1. 6 amp charge rate is too little and will cause 12V drain
2. there is some Porsche power management via PLC settings that can also cause problems

It is factual and interesting to note that in my case: one actual 12V dead issue and one “almost” 12V dead issue Porsche chargers were NOT invovled - therefore anyone claiming ”victory” on Porsche’s behalf because they have identified these two concrete 12V death issues is premature - as it does not address the 12V death issues which do not involve Porsche chargers…

 

[RichD]

I have just picked up my 4 week old Taycan 4S from the West London dealer, after 2 consecutive days of 12v failure and P Assist call-outs, with the car being trailered away. Due to workload and current restrictions, I was unable to speak directly with the mechanic. The apparent cause was that my tracker fobs were still in the glove-box (my bad!), the dealer had forgotten to link them to my vehicle, apparently the car had constantly been searching for the non-existing link to the fobs, which had drained the 12v. I find it hard to believe this is the issue, I informed them of the forum content on this recurring issue, but no comment. 3 days later - still OK, but a lingering doubt hanging over what is otherwise a majestic drive.

 

[Bobby]

Here is an update. Porsche have agreed to reject the car and replace it. It will probably be Sept before a replacement is available and so the dealer has suggested that I keep and use the current car and then they will swap it out when the new car comes. If the 12V "fix" comes in March, they will fix it and I will still get the replacement car when it comes. Views welcome please.

 

[Doc B]

Here is an update. Porsche have agreed to reject the car and replace it. It will probably be Sept before a replacement is available and so the dealer has suggested that I keep and use the current car and then they will swap it out when the new car comes. If the 12V "fix" comes in March, they will fix it and I will still get the replacement car when it comes. Views welcome please.

If I had a Taycan to play with for 6 months with the promise of a brand new free replacement in September, I can tell you now how I'd be driving that baby...

Seriously, though, pleased to hear you've got a solution here. Sounds perfect. It does not, though, suggest to me that Porsche have much faith in their "March fix".

 

[Bobby]

If I had a Taycan to play with for 6 months with the promise of a brand new free replacement in September, I can tell you now how I'd be driving that baby...

Seriously, though, pleased to hear you've got a solution here. Sounds perfect. It does not, though, suggest to me that Porsche have much faith in their "March fix".

Thanks Doc B. Interesting perspective on the "March fix".

 

[W1NGE]

No brainer really...you have nothing to lose and all to gain!

Mind you, see if you can stall them a little more and get the MY22 car (should be orderable late August I would think) for Nov / Dec delivery.

 

[chrisk]

Here is an update. Porsche have agreed to reject the car and replace it. It will probably be Sept before a replacement is available and so the dealer has suggested that I keep and use the current car and then they will swap it out when the new car comes. If the 12V "fix" comes in March, they will fix it and I will still get the replacement car when it comes. Views welcome please.

I would still reject the car and ask for a refund. I personally need a car that I know it will start every time and not worry it might be die any day. I never had that anxiousness with any other new car I owned. Some of them had minor issues but not catastrophic like this.

However their offer is generous and if you have another car to use as a backup then you can accept it. I would add the following:
1) they should refund the car immediately if the car starts throwing "electrical faults " or if it stalls while driving which is an issue some other members have seen after a dead 12v battery.
2) ask them to replace with a 2022 model even if that means replacement to be pushed to December or so. It is very likely the 2022 will have better software and possibly hardware overall compared to 2021

 

[bootsie]

Here is an update. Porsche have agreed to reject the car and replace it. It will probably be Sept before a replacement is available and so the dealer has suggested that I keep and use the current car and then they will swap it out when the new car comes. If the 12V "fix" comes in March, they will fix it and I will still get the replacement car when it comes. Views welcome please.

Wow, that seems to good to be true - but if you get that in writing it seems like the best of both worlds.

I've been browsing through other general EV car forums and it does seem these 12v issues are affecting other makes too - it's not just a Porsche thing. It does highlight how far behind Tesla some of these manufacturers are (no that they're perfect either).

 

[Bobby]

Tuesday update.

Thanks for all your advice - much appreciated. Dealer has been great - agreed to MY22 point and full refund if the electrical issues escalate (although his dealership hadn't experienced this). I am in a good place.

 

[daveo4EV]

first off what a great result - keep the car - we may fix it - and you get a new car in the future regardless - hard to imagine a better outcome…

I will note however I’m not entirely sure why people think this issue will be resolve by a model-year change - it’s a software fault and endemic the Taycan fleet - it’s not MY specific

if/when Porsche has a fix - and they apply that fix - it should improve the situation for entire fleet and not be “fixed” on MY boundaries…

the only reason this issue resolution would be restricted to MY boundaries is if Porsche decides not to release the fix for earlier MY taycan’s - and that would be a dick move on Porsche’s part in my opinion.

but again - great result!!

 

[W1NGE]

You are forgetting hardware upgrades that will inevitably come as not all issues are solely software related.

 

[chrisk]

I will note however I’m not entirely sure why people think this issue will be resolve by a model-year change - it’s a software fault and endemic the Taycan fleet - it’s not MY specific

if/when Porsche has a fix - and they apply that fix - it should improve the situation for entire fleet and not be “fixed” on MY boundaries…

I was the one who suggested to wait for the 2022 model, not because it is more likely to have a 12v fix but because it is likely to have the latest software and features overall. You can see that 2021 has features and bug fixes that are not released to 2020 (yet) like the fixes OAT and Transmission module self-corrupt issues. It also has newer PCM version.

 

[W1NGE]

I was the one who suggested to wait for the 2022 model, not because it is more likely to have a 12v fix but because it is likely to have the latest software and features overall. You can see that 2021 has features and bug fixes that are not released to 2020 (yet) like the fixes OAT and Transmission module self-corrupt issues. It also has newer PCM version.

Actually you weren't...check the thread chronology, not that it matters

 

[chrisk]

Actually you weren't...check the thread chronology, not that it matters

haha we suggested the same thing 2 minute apart, but yes your post was first

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