400v charging upgrade - now a must have with Tesla network in NA?

[daveo4EV]

I think we all have to realize the Supercharger network is better than EA for the following reasons:

• more locations
• more stalls at each location
  • vastly more stalls
• better maintained
• battle tested - Tesla has fixed a lot of issues over the years

I'll humbly suggest you'll use it more than "plan B" more often than you think - because EA is so poorly run, unreliable, and lacks any meaningful number of stalls

frankly it's very very hard to compete with the Supercharger network as a reliable fast charging network

I can slam Elon for a lot of things - but where the Supercharger network is concerned we really really have to give this one to Tesla - it is in fact the best existing network and will be for a while.

Just don't even try in this space - Tesla simply wins in this space … and EA well we all love EA as the scruffy try and fail service that it is…and the underdog.

I for one will travel worry free with any CCS EV if the supercharger network is actually opened and functional…it will remove a lot of impediments to both high usage local days and road trips

EA is just not there yet - and their execution lacks credibility, and their history indicates they lack motivation to be any good - opening the SC network may actually harm EA cause it kinda lets them off the hook…

seriously visit this site and drink in the existing and high stall count number of locations…and the impressive expansion plans

https://supercharge.info/map

in particular click on some sites and drink in the stall count…

example in California - on I-5 - 56 stalls!!!!

as compared to EA that has failed to finish opening a 4 stall site in Watsonville that has been finished for the past 9 months (and still not active) next to a functional 16 stall Tesla site less than 1/4 mile away…

really honestly - you're excited by this - more than you realize, and honestly it is a more reliable and functional than the EA network and will be for quite some time.

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[daveo4EV]

I mean ROFL - you're on a trip - you need to charge in a particular location - and you have a choice of a 24 stall Tesla Supercharger - or a 4 stall EA location where 2 of the stalls will be "unavailable" and the other 2 stalls simply won't work…

I know what site I'm visiting first and which I'm going to consider "plan B"…

 

[Kakatus10]

I think we all have to realize the Supercharger network is better than EA for the following reasons:

• more locations
• more stalls at each location
  • vastly more stalls
• better maintained
• battle tested - Tesla has fixed a lot of issues over the years

I'll humbly suggest you'll use it more than "plan B" more often than you think - because EA is so poorly run, unreliable, and lacks any meaningful number of stalls

frankly it's very very hard to compete with the Supercharger network as a reliable fast charging network

I can slam Elon for a lot of things - but where the Supercharger network is concerned we really really have to give this one to Tesla - it is in fact the best existing network and will be for a while.

Just don't even try in this space - Tesla simply wins in this space … and EA well we all love EA as the scruffy try and fail service that it is…and the underdog.

I for one will travel worry free with any CCS EV if the supercharger network is actually opened and functional…it will remove a lot of impediments to both high usage local days and road trips

EA is just not there yet - and their execution lacks credibility, and their history indicates they lack motivation to be any good - opening the SC network may actually harm EA cause it kinda lets them off the hook…

seriously visit this site and drink in the existing and high stall count number of locations…and the impressive expansion plans

https://supercharge.info/map

in particular click on some sites and drink in the stall count…

example in California - on I-5 - 56 stalls!!!!

as compared to EA that has failed to finish opening a 4 stall site in Watsonville that has been finished for the past 9 months (and still not active) next to a functional 16 stall Tesla site less than 1/4 mile away…

really honestly - you're excited by this - more than you realize, and honestly it is a more reliable and functional than the EA network and will be for quite some time.

Do you really think it will be as reliable when Tesla doesn't control the types of cars being charged? Their chargers and cars are designed to work perfectly with each other and communicate needs. I suspect continued great reliability with Tesla's, but growing pains with out of network vehicles.

 

[Bella]

Do you really think it will be as reliable when Tesla doesn't control the types of cars being charged? Their chargers and cars are designed to work perfectly with each other and communicate needs. I suspect continued great reliability with Tesla's, but growing pains with out of network vehicles.

I also wonder how much faster a Supercharger is since the Taycan charges so quickly between 20% -80%??

 

[daveo4EV]

well given that most of the time EA chargers simply do not work and it's not the car's fault - the chargers are just "unavailable" - I think the Supercharger Network will start out life at least equal to EA if not slightly better due to greater stall availability and capacity - if we're having actual multiple car problems I'd consider that progress vs. the chargers just not working such that you can't even try to charge.

 

[daveo4EV]

Supercharger

I also wonder how much faster a Supercharger is since the Taycan charges so quickly between 20% -80%??

superchargers will not be faster than a "working EA "charging station - but given how often EA charging stations are not working and how often I have to take 10-20 min. to actually start the session - I expect the actual charging time will be equal or better because again the stations will actually function.

but there is NO DOUBT - when you get a functional EA charging station the Taycan charges faster than any other vehicle due to less taper…

now that characteristic is the vehicle's battery - there is no reason to expect it to be "slower" on a supercharger _IF_ the supercharger can "keep up" with the Taycan - flat lining at 150 kW from 20% to about 70% is pretty quick - and only slightly slower than 260 kW given that you start tapering the 260 @ about 40% SOC…

flat line 150 kW from 20% to 70% SOC should be pretty quick…

but that's only if the CCS adapter supports more than 50 kW and you have the 400V/150kW option.

I've watched the charging curve on my Taycan multiple times - it spends a lot of time in the 150-100 kW range which superchargers should be able to provide…so it's only the bit of SOC that is normally "above" 150 kW that will be "slower" - and that is only below 40% SOC…

remember there are 3 speeds of superchargers

72 kW
150 kW
250 kW

I'm hoping for a 150 kW adapter - which means xx% to 80% will all be at 150 kW for the 150/250 kW superchargers…

we'll see.

 

[daveo4EV]

I'm open to being proven wrong - but I will laugh in your face If your argument is that EA is going to get their sh*t together anytime soon - you just wait and see - they'll get it - and my dad will beat up your dad - and EA will show that crummy Tesla network who's boss...

yeah - if that's your argument I just don't see it…

in any case - this is all very very interesting in my opinion I there isn't enough popcorn in the world for me to watch this while it plays out…

but yeah EA stepping up the plate and besting Tesla for fast charging - not based on any plans or actual behavior I've seen in the past 18 months…or what's coming up.

this is Tesla's game to lose - not EA's opportunity to win.

if this doesn't go well it will be because Tesla fumbles the ball - not because EA suddenly becomes competent and reliable.

and then we'll be stuck with two charging networks that don't quite work well enough to matter and it will stall the whole EV thing.

 

[andrewket]

this is Tesla's game to lose - not EA's opportunity to win.

It doesn’t have to be a zero sum game. They both can win, and I hope they do. Ideal state may be ~12 different companies competing for our business.

 

[Miwa]

You're not getting 150kW (or anything even close) if those 24 stall Supercharger sites actually have 20 people charging...

 

[chrisk]

The last couple of months I have started "competing" for the no more than 2 working stations at my earby EA location with a couple of Leafs, Mach-e and ID4s. I can foresee that the situation will only get worse when more of these hit the road plus the Etrons, the i4s iX3s, Lucid etc. All these brands depend on EA and sone will offer free EA charging like the Taycan.
Even if EA fixes the broken stations still the 3 stations per location are not enough.

The more charging options we have the better.
Having said that I still feel I wasted my money on the 400v option. I hope to be proven wrong.

 

[andrewket]

The last couple of months I have started "competing" for the no more than 2 working stations at my earby EA location with a couple of Leafs, Mach-e and ID4s. I can foresee that the situation will only get worse when more of these hit the road plus the Etrons, the i4s iX3s, Lucid etc. All these brands depend on EA and sone will offer free EA charging like the Taycan.
Even if EA fixes the broken stations still the 3 stations per location are not enough.

The more charging options we have the better.
Having said that I still feel I wasted my money on the 400v option. I hope to be proven wrong.

EA absolutely needs to improve their reliability and footprint, I agree. However, it sounds as if you’re using EA for your daily charging needs? That is for sure a recipe for unhappiness.

 

[chrisk]

EA absolutely needs to improve their reliability and footprint, I agree. However, it sounds as if you’re using EA for your daily charging needs? That is for sure a recipe for unhappiness.

I only use it once a week usually at the weekend. It is at a location I happen to go for grocery shopping and I just plug in since I am there. But lately there are no available working stations depending on time of the day. That wasn't the case a few months ago.
Btw I have 14-50 at home and 6.6kw at work so I don't depend on EA.

 

[submatrix]

Picture your typical EA station with its 4 stalls. Now picture pulling up your Taycan to this. Granted, it's the only one of its kind, but it would be really nice to have the Superchargers available for our Taycans.

 

[benver]

Wouldn't it be better if the super charger stalls have an extra cable with a CCS connector ?
I wouldn't like to use an adapter with 400V and lots of amperes going through it.
AFAIK, the CCS cables are water cooled(blue in the picture below), has to be a beefy adapter that can handle the current without cooling!

 

[Mr Hockey]

Tesla opening up their network for 3rd party cars by end of the year seems almost certain.
so even though electrify America in NA are 800v. Aren’t all Tesla super chargers 400v?

If this becomes a reality and Porsche allows us to charge with Tesla network. The 150kW upgrade for 400v option is all of a sudden a must have.
This goes against the common forum / EV press wisdom for NA market.

thoughts?

Two weeks into our Taycan and on a long distance trip, we were in a small, rural town and found the right side port failed. We were utterly dead in the water because all the EA chargers anywhere nearby and all along our route we’re only CCS / Combo units and half of them were out of order too ! The only place we could charge were a couple of public chargers pushing out .5 miles / minute. Had to stay overnight and then another 4-5 stop at a Whole Foods halfway home. Took well over 24 hours to limp home ! We’ve purchased an 80A Tesla tap and at least we’ll have that as an option should we need it in an emergency. The EA network is not the best and we continue to have issues with their system availability. There were plenty of Tesla options but few J1772 ones so a Tesla tap at a few hundred dollars is a cheap alternative to being stranded.

I’m unclear, however, if this 80A Tesla tap will be sufficient for their supercharger network.

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