Cayman EV (and Boxster EV) may axed by new CEO Michael Leiters

[whitex]

This thread got me thinking and today I did some quick estimates and built a 718 EV. Inputs were current Cayman GTS 4.0 and only EV technology available today. Result was 3000 lb, 335 hp (EV power > ICE power due to torque availability) and 320 mi range at 70 mph with ~280 combined EPA rating. That's with RWD + torque vectoring.

The above uses a full aluminum BIW like Lucid. Commercially available WeLion battery cells. EESM motor tech like BMW. cDA improved by 10%.

I would eat that up!

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[W1NGE]

The only reason any OEM produced EVs was because of the regulatory environment. Between that being scrapped, the 25% tariffs, Porsche EV inventory sitting, why would Porsche send EVs to the US?

I only have EVs and have a reservation for R2, but business is business

The tarrif regime will surely revert on change of White House regime.

BMW have been smarter and can utilise existing in country manufacturing facilities to bypass this issue. Perhaps Porsche will look to do same to eventually produce 2 seater sports cars.

 

[f1eng]

But would such higher center of gravity hurt handling? Or are 718 EV's intended mostly for show?

It probably still won't be as high as a piston engined car, with a wet sump at least, and styling is probably more important to 99% of sports car drivers than the last fraction of cornering capability (that they probably couldn't exploit anyway).
IMHO

 

[W1NGE]

Won't the EV variant (if it ever sees the light of day) hold out until there is a viable solid state (a real one!) battery with usable range?

If so, would this not solve the weight, balance, and dynamics conundrum?

The market for an EV Boxster / Cayman is already small and smaller still if if won't make it to the metaphorical end of the street and back on a single charge.

 

[Sace]

I was just at the local launch of the new Cayenne EV yesterday where they talked about Porsches new strategy about "having a car type for every customer". Yeah right.

If they end out killing the Cayman EV and we are left with two SUV's and a Taycan where they can't figure out how to do a OTA update then I'm absolutely gone as a Porsche customer. I really hope they change their mind but I don't have much hope.

 

[ze_shark]

One thinly sourced article.
Not from the german business press.
Which contradicts prior and even less credible sources.

I am really surprised that people here take this at face value.

2025 full year press conference is a few weeks ahead, we will see what they and don't.
Corporate governance still matters in Germany. The signal will be clear. Probably as clear as it was in the Q3 CFO presentation.

 

[Kakatus10]

Caterham Project V for me then. If they actually produce it.

They showcased it in January Las Vegas NV, stated planning on coming to the US with 2k units a year in production. Its an interesting option that will likely be in the shop more than the road. It will also be a base price of ~125k with no cupholders, by that I mean is that it is a focused 'Toy'. I will no doubt test drive one and keep my eye on it though, especially if there is a dealer within 500 miles of me, likely have to drive into California.

I just know they'll have the same issues as the first gen Tesla models, if not worse. So its best as a 3rd vehicle and just plan for it to be in the shop 6 months out of the year.

I hope Alpine goes through with their debut with the A110 EV @ sub 3000 lbs, which seems a bit more dailyable than the Project V, which is a focused 'Toy' versus commuter vehicle. Personally I kind of want it all. Ideally light weight slightly more spacious EV version of a Miata is perfect.

 

[Kakatus10]

An EV powertrain with torque vectoring is more "engaging" than an ICE with any sort of automatic transmission. Nothing is as fun as steering a car with the throttle and the fine control of an EV aids this.

I agree, but the real solution since every EV is fast... is to add engagement elsewhere. Perhaps the Miata ethos, you need to make a slow light weight EV so you can drive it at the limit on the street so you can properly play with the torque vectoring.

Or have a crazy idea is having the paddle shifters apply the torque vectoring manually (right shift would regen brake right wheel), so you have something to play with and perfect. Everyone knows manual transmissions are slower, but its about engaging with the vehicle you're driving, versus having it drive you.

 

[gnr3312]

Let’s not get political here, Porsche doesn’t just sell vehicles in the US. I think the decision came down to Chinese automakers obliterating the market more so than tariffs in the US.

 

[babylou66]

I agree, but the real solution since every EV is fast... is to add engagement elsewhere. Perhaps the Miata ethos, you need to make a slow light weight EV so you can drive it at the limit on the street so you can properly play with the torque vectoring.

Or have a crazy idea is having the paddle shifters apply the torque vectoring manually (right shift would regen brake right wheel), so you have something to play with and perfect. Everyone knows manual transmissions are slower, but its about engaging with the vehicle you're driving, versus having it drive you.

I've owned 5 Miatae for this exact reason. They are simply fun to drive at sane speeds. I think modern tires with their high levels of grip have done a diservice to the fun to drive quotient.

 

[KLHubb]

Today, I spent time with the sales manager at Porsche/Syracuse.
He thinks that it will be difficult for Porsche to drop the 718 EV, due to the already very significant investment in the development of the model.

 

[gnr3312]

I’m 100% agreeing with you here, and no you didn’t hurt my sensibilities. I hear politics at work, from friends, etc and this place is an escape. The moment the phrase “tariff terrorist” came up, I could sense a shift in tone. Your argument above is valid, and yes all things can be true. But I believe the future to continue pushing for growth outside of the US was the Chinese market and not just for Porsche but for others like Tesla as well. I don’t know that anyone can compete with their manufacturing model.

 

[daveo4EV]

disappointing no doubt

but unsurprising

the EV 718/Cayman/Boxster has been just about to be released since 2020…and that was when Porsche liked EV's…

Porsche can't price their EV's to be 'competitive' because then the EV would undercut the ICE versions…

And Porsche's ICE prices are creeping into "too much money territory"

Porsche can't succeed in the EV business unless they tank their existing business…



what is that business model?

sell luxury premium sports cars with infinite trim levels and charge incremental money for each minor increase in performance…that model is "broken" when EV's democratize performance, performance no longer locked behind mechnical complexity…so there is no reason to "charge for it"…boom Porsche's business model disappears in a puff of logic…

Porsche had a technology/complexity moat against competition for Performance - in that competing with Porsche required competitors to take on the same mechanical complexity Porsche had mastered - and while they might choose to purse that - it was hard to see how they could be profitable doing it…and it would take a lot of effort for unclear outcome…

EV's have removed the "performance" moat…and Porsche is left holding it's ass in it's hands with no where to go…in the EV world. They have no "moat" in the EV world…

solution: dont' sell EV's and return to business you know - where performance is locked behind mechanical complexity that most companies are unwilling to engage in…

if you accept the premise of Porsche's shrinking competitive moat with regards to EV's - they lost their main weapon of mechanical/technical complexity for relaible/impressive ICE performance…

we then also have to factor in the sorts of things Porsche has chosen not to master and/or lags behind - and mostly that's digital and any advanced leading edge creature comforts - once mechanical performance is no longer the party trick that will carry the day and price point…customer also expect premium experience with non-Mechanical aspects of vehicle ownership…

Infotainment and OTA updates just to name two…the complete list of things Porsche does "not" do that competitors offer is long and depressing if you really really bother to think it through…

EV's force Porsche to appear "equal or lesser" in terms of "performance" - but Porsche's price is still outlandish…but no "apparent" advantage (performance is normally even less at lower price points) - we can quibble on this but the superficial stats make Porsche look equal or worse to most EV competitors…

And then you and potential customers have to evaluate Prosche on "the digital front" - and they are way less than equal to "cheaper" competitors with "equal performance"…they are in fact behind or even embarrassing once mechanical performance is out of the equation…

it's a witches brew that makes EV's kryptonite for Porsche's business model…

the irrelevance of mechanical watch making skills in the EV world has laid Porsche bare to being compared to lesser manufacturers and come out looking worse for wear…

they have their work cut out from them...

but their pricing is also challenging…Porsche charges/prices for apparent performance

Trim	0-60 ICE	0-60 EV	ICE	EV	EV* (17.5k)
Macan Base	6.0	5.4	$65,400	$80,300	$62,800
Macan T	5.8		$71,100
Macan 4		4.9		$84,000	$66,500
Macan S	4.6	3.9	$78,900	$89,900	$72,400
Macan GTS	4.3	3.6	$94,200	$105,300	$87,800
Macan Turbo		3.1		$112,700	$95,200

* - last column is a mythical Price of a Macan EV with a $17,500 across the board discount - I picked this number out of my ass but it seems about right to bring Porsche base pricing inline with worthy competitors…of similar performance/quality…we can quibble on the exact amount, but any attempt to make their EV's competitive in terms of pricing makes their ICE price points look bad …not to mention the impact on revenues, lost margin and frankly charging less means they make less money

the ICE prices above are expensive but nothing comes close in that category of ICE mid-sized SUV in terms of mechanical performance…so Porsche's prices are "swallowed" by Macan ICE customers - and it's their best selling model - so obviously it's well priced.

the Macan EV is over priced by about $25-$30k to be competitive in the Mid-sized EV realm…

but if we take $17,500 out of the base price of the Macan EV (to make more competitive with other EV's) - it decimates the Macan ICE price structure…

Porsche can't compete on performance _OR_ price with their EV's with out destroying their ICE performance driven price points…

their business model no longer works…

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