Electrify America Issues

[Tooney]

I'm not sure about the rest of US, but at least EA met its aggressive reliability targets and continuous reliability in state of California for 2nd Quarter 2023, per its latest report to California Air Resources Board.

1077-Q22023ElectrifyAmericaReporttoCARBPublic.pdf

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[gtm]

it's 100% EA's fault in that they choose to accept lengthy outages and not provide timely repairs/support for their sites - I honestly believe it's cheaper for them to leave the sites offline/broken than it is to fix them and lower's monthly operating costs in that their electricity bills are lower…

they are a sham service and have no intention of providing reliable service at their locations - they can't even tell if their stations are online/offline and often times the customer support rep has no idea what the state of a given stall is

they lack any indication that they are interested in anything beyond "installing" a site - as to if it actually works - that's entirely besides the point.

There might be some progress. My wife and I regularly travel between Florida and NJ (headed North - Route 95, to 26, 77, 81 and finally 78. Major highways but not the heart of EV land). In the past there have been several EA stops have been consistently working as they should and most as expected - broken equipment, throttled charging. The recent trip was a marked improvement. The worst very minor hiccup was only getting 150kW on a 350 charger. None of the stops had an inoperative tower. This was a sample of 5 locations (two of which have always been excellent) at a single point in time but this is the first trip where the car was always ready before my wife. Columbia SC, which has been a consistent POS stop, but necessary, was fully operational. I couldn't believe it. Maybe, just maybe there is progress. I'm not holding my breath, but maybe?

 

[snstevens]

I'm not sure about the rest of US, but at least EA met its aggressive reliability targets and continuous reliability in state of California for 2nd Quarter 2023, per its latest report to California Air Resources Board.

1077-Q22023ElectrifyAmericaReporttoCARBPublic.pdf

This is so far from reality (especially the part about "rapid response") that I feel like kicking something. I think @Jonathan S. published part of the settlement agreement between VW Group and the US EPA that called out a minimum response time to fix stations that are down. I couldn't help but laugh in frustration.

 

[Archimedes]

The public charging infrastructure was no surprise, in fact it was expected. I've been driving an EV for years and was quite familiar with EA and the associated problems.

The section of your post that I commented on was the part about people buying expensive cars objecting to paying for charging. Paying for a charge while road tripping isn't/shouldn't be an issue for anyone driving a Porsche. It's not knowing what the status of the chargers will be upon arrival. PlugShare helps but that isn't an answer to reliable charging hardware.

But again you’re making my point. You’re complaining about the lack of availability at public chargers. That has never been a secret. Anyone who bought an EV thinking that they would have seamless public charging with high availability simply didn’t do their homework. Does it suck? Yes, but anyone who did minimal due diligence would have known it sucked before they bought their car.

I would never buy an EV without home charging and I’d never own an EV without also having an ICE car for certain trips. And I expect that my feelings on that likely won’t change for another ten or so years.

 

[Tooney]

This is so far from reality (especially the part about "rapid response") that I feel like kicking something. I think @Jonathan S. published part of the settlement agreement between VW Group and the US EPA that called out a minimum response time to fix stations that are down. I couldn't help but laugh in frustration.

EA's summary slides of its report to the California state agency do not mention service reliability. My guess is the state agency doesn't care either. In the report EA brags about a lot of things unrelated to its actual charging service performance.

 

[WasserGKuehlt]

The point @Archimedes was obliquely (I think) making was that there are alternatives to EA which aren’t free - EVGo being the most prevalent with high speed chargers. Since the complaints here seem to focus on EA, has anyone tried the alternatives?

For my part:
- EA has worked for me fairly reliably; I’ve seen 2 non-working stalls in a couple dozen visits at various sites around WA
- Charging power seems to be the biggest issue; never saw more than 180kW (not including my inaugural trip across the West), but on the plus side the label on the cabinet doesn’t seem to matter; whether marked 150 or 350, charging power is the same.
- I stopped once at an EVGo station, and based on that sample set it appears to be no better than EA: 1 out of 4 stalls was not functional (but not marked as such, it just consistently failed), 1 was blocked by an idling car, and basically 2 stalls servicing a line of waiting cars.

Im looking ahead to a trip to Laguna Seca (950mi each way), and it seems the route is well peppered with all sorts of fast chargers. I’ll take notes.

 

[snstevens]

The point @Archimedes was obliquely (I think) making was that there are alternatives to EA which aren’t free - EVGo being the most prevalent with high speed chargers. Since the complaints here seem to focus on EA, has anyone tried the alternatives?

For my part:
- EA has worked for me fairly reliably; I’ve seen 2 non-working stalls in a couple dozen visits at various sites around WA
- Charging power seems to be the biggest issue; never saw more than 180kW (not including my inaugural trip across the West), but on the plus side the label on the cabinet doesn’t seem to matter; whether marked 150 or 350, charging power is the same.
- I stopped once at an EVGo station, and based on that sample set it appears to be no better than EA: 1 out of 4 stalls was not functional (but not marked as such, it just consistently failed), 1 was blocked by an idling car, and basically 2 stalls servicing a line of waiting cars.

Im looking ahead to a trip to Laguna Seca (950mi each way), and it seems the route is well peppered with all sorts of fast chargers. I’ll take notes.

True, and I should try to spend more time checking out these alternatives. My first foray into EVGo land didn't work out due to down stations, and inability to get the charger that was supposedly working, to work. I'll admit to being discouraged and not going back.

 

[Jonathan S.]

The ones that come to mind are:
1. Fort Lee NJ - 4 stations. I have visited this site at least 30 times in the last year. [...]

How have you not been institutionalized after subjecting yourself to such repeated trauma?
(Stockholm syndrome!)
I could feel the frustration building even just from reading the PlugShare reviews for that EA location.

My strategy for my two NYC-area trips has been to narrow down my charge planning to stations that have at least six chargers. My reasoning has been that from a probabilistic modeling perspective, even if a station with more than four chargers has proportionately more visitation, it is nevertheless far less likely to have any significant waits.

And indeed, I was correct: all four EA stations I've visited down there have been busy, but almost of the time arriving drivers could pull up to an open charger, and those who had to wait were waiting for just a few minutes.
Unfortunately, the highest kW I ever received was in the low triple digits.
Other experiences of note:

• Stratford CT: One charger broken, but at the adjacent McDonald's, no vanilla cone for me b/c the ice cream machine was broken, so EA reliability triumph (in relative terms).
• East Brunswick: Displays alternated disturbingly between low triple digits and low double digits, but reality seemed to be an average in the low triple digits. (Lucid owner at the 350 was not pleased.)
• New Castle DE: The hosting Wawa closes at 10pm, but the adjacent Dunkin Donuts is 24/7, although its parking lot has a sign that appears to prohibit *walking* into the parking lot, but fortunately the armed state corrections officer waiting in line did not drawn his sidearm on me for this violation.
• Elizabeth NJ: Max of 61 kW, and only something like three drivers out of the dozens that were there during my visit got into the low triple digits.

That last experience delayed my return trip significantly. Next time I'll try some of the larger EVgo stations (which seem to be the only viable alternative south of NYC along I-95).

 

[Jonathan S.]

I'm not sure about the rest of US, but at least EA met its aggressive reliability targets and continuous reliability in state of California for 2nd Quarter 2023, per its latest report to California Air Resources Board. [...]

EA definitely does not skimp on its PR department!

Now granted I haven't reviewed all of the relevant documents (original consent decree, 30-month investment plans, and quarterly reports) in as much detail as I would for paid work, but so far I have not seen anything that we would consider to be reliability metrics.
Instead, just number of stations, number of chargers, total kWh, and utilization (which includes the wee hours of the morning).

I have no doubt though that EA meets its own self-defined (and unspecified, and unreported) reliability metrics!

As for its supposed national ranking, I was so astonished by this when I came across those old rankings earlier this year that I looked up the underlying reports, and learned that the ranking component for whether a network's DCFC chargers can actually ... charge accounted as a percent of the total score only [wait for it, this is good!] eight percent.
(As in, 8%, not, say 80%.)

 

[Jonathan S.]

There might be some progress. [...]

Yes, I've been noticing some success stories.
For example, the key EA location for northern New England in Manchester NH had been almost entirely dysfunctional for months, then suddenly it was entirely fixed a few weeks ago!
Except I checked again just now and ... only three out of four chargers are working.

The EA FB page has occasional encouraging accounts of EA stations with entirely new chargers that seem to work. But those are far outnumbered with tales of dismal dysfunctional stations. Perhaps EA will finally install a new charger design that is reasonably reliable?

 

[Jonathan S.]

This is so far from reality (especially the part about "rapid response") that I feel like kicking something. I think @Jonathan S. published part of the settlement agreement between VW Group and the US EPA that called out a minimum response time to fix stations that are down. I couldn't help but laugh in frustration.

That was in the 30-month investment plan (submitted by EA for regulatory approval as per the original consent decree).

Whether you laugh, cry, or curse, the choice is yours (or is the reaction involuntary?):

"Electrify America recognizes that customer experience is a critical element to PEV adoption and is committed to industry-leading customer service and station maintenance and repair. To this end, Electrify America has established contractual requirements to reasonably resolve critical issues with all stations within a maximum of 72 hours."​

BTW, EA in its press releases claims an equity valuation of $2.45 billion. So somehow, if you combine a legally required $2b in officially termed Creditable Costs plus a bit over $100m from Siemens for a seat on the board (perhaps to get EA to buy Siemens chargers on more favorable terms?), somehow despite all the EA chargers that have already been junked plus all the ones that are dysfunctional, you get assets worth $2.45b -- must be the same math that has all critical issues resolved w/in 72 hours.

 

[Tooney]

Other experiences of note:

• Stratford CT: One charger broken, but at the adjacent McDonald's, no vanilla cone for me b/c the ice cream machine was broken, so EA reliability triumph (in relative terms).

• Have charged at Stratford CT EA several times. Once was busy but other times worked well. I like the site. A month ago McDonalds was out of ice - had to wait for guy to bring ice from kitchen to drink dispenser.
• Stay far away from EA in North Haven CT (I-91). Located in parking lot very close to shopping center itself, so trying to park for charging is quite difficult. Tight spaces and poor arrangement of dispensers.
• EVgo in North Haven CT usually empty, but limited to 100kw.

 

[Tooney]

Whenever we get frustrated with Taycan charging sessions at EA, we can comfort ourselves with photos of Porsche Charging Lounge in Bingen.

 

[ElGordo]

EA sucks but as someone pointed out - their marketing begs to differ.

Amazing that they spent so much money rebranding their chargers so that at least on the surface - the label of "super freaking blazingly fast" can hide the fact that a 350 charger still only goes to 100kwh. I guess we are supposed to be grateful they work at all... most sites all along New England corridor are still deprecated...

and a negative to Porsche... FEWER qualified staff certified for Taycan means that any service request translates to a huge kick in the face as it will take months to get any service requests actually handled.

Burlington MA Porsche dealer is down to one tech and he's got a back load that will put any current requests well into 2024...

pretty pathetic

 

[Jonathan S.]

^ My favorite EA marketing was adding names to 150 and 350:
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a41160379/electrify-america-hyper-ultra-fastest-chargers/
https://electrek.co/2022/09/08/elec...rs-hyper-fast-ultra-fast-new-naming-standard/

However, my wife has now inadvertently discovered the fastest EA station in the entire northeast:
https://www.i4talk.com/threads/best-ea-experience-for-our-household-ever.9982/

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