I Need Insight

[whitex]

@irrelevant - in the UK the Plaid has still not arrived and some have waited a long time

Are they all stuck waiting for heaters though?

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[whitex]

That's probably not a bad thing. By the time they get there, maybe they'll have corrected those defective steering wheels they've been installing.

They won't. It was enough of a bruise to Elon's ego to offer rounded yoke currently available. He's not going to stomach a regular, stalked steering wheel, as that would be admitting he was wrong, something he really does not like to do. Funny thing, I would have bought a Plaid while waiting for the Taycan, had it not been for the yoke.

 

[whitex]

I'll smile politely and pause for a moment to be thankful our society has created jobs for the kids who sat in the back of the classroom eating their crayons.

I was the kid on the back of the class playing chess with a friend (true story btw). We both have interesting jobs in tech today. I have seen however what it takes to arrange production logistics, and it is mind boggling. To make a high tech chip, you know, that little piece of plastic the size of a postage stamp, one of many in the Taycan, takes 35+ suppliers. Yep, just for that one chip, 35 different companies need to deliver their products just in time. Now go count how many chips there are in a Taycan, then how many other parts. Porsche claims 560 suppliers delivering direct to the Taycan production line. That does not count individual suppliers which deliver to produce those components (such as the chips used in the ECU's). I would think if you counted all the suppliers which cannot fail in order to produce a Taycan, it would be 5,000+, maybe even 20,000+. Any one of them can cause a chain delay. Neon gas from Ukraine was not delivered, causing the SoC for PMC to not be made, causing the boards for PCM not being made, causing no PCM to install in a Taycan, even if all other parts arrived on time.

I saw a presentation once from a guy who decided to make a toaster, without ANY suppliers. He did give himself unlimited travel budget though, so when he wanted metal ore he could fly down to a place where he could dig it out of the ground himself. He also gave himself unlimited tool budget. It took him and his research partner 2 years of work, many flights and drives, and the darn thing burned out on the first piece of bread it was attempting to toast. It was as simple of an analog toaster as you can imagine (looked like crap too). Humanity as a whole is incredibly dependent on supply chains. Heck, I live in Washington state USA, yet the vast majority of water which I drink every day comes from freakin Italy! I don't know where the plastics for the bottle or the labels come from, or where the bottles and labels are made. It really is amazing and scary at the same time if you think about it.

 

[BigBob]

I was the kid on the back of the class playing chess with a friend (true story btw). We both have interesting jobs in tech today. I have seen however what it takes to arrange production logistics, and it is mind boggling. To make a high tech chip, you know, that little piece of plastic the size of a postage stamp, one of many in the Taycan, takes 35+ suppliers. Yep, just for that one chip, 35 different companies need to deliver their products just in time. Now go count how many chips there are in a Taycan, then how many other parts. Porsche claims 560 suppliers delivering direct to the Taycan production line. That does not count individual suppliers which deliver to produce those components (such as the chips used in the ECU's). I would think if you counted all the suppliers which cannot fail in order to produce a Taycan, it would be 5,000+, maybe even 20,000+. Any one of them can cause a chain delay. Neon gas from Ukraine was not delivered, causing the SoC for PMC to not be made, causing the boards for PCM not being made, causing no PCM to install in a Taycan, even if all other parts arrived on time.

I saw a presentation once from a guy who decided to make a toaster, without ANY suppliers. He did give himself unlimited travel budget though, so when he wanted metal ore he could fly down to a place where he could dig it out of the ground himself. He also gave himself unlimited tool budget. It took him and his research partner 2 years of work, many flights and drives, and the darn thing burned out on the first piece of bread it was attempting to toast. It was as simple of an analog toaster as you can imagine (looked like crap too). Humanity as a whole is incredibly dependent on supply chains. Heck, I live in Washington state USA, yet the vast majority of water which I drink every day comes from freakin Italy! I don't know where the plastics for the bottle or the labels come from, or where the bottles and labels are made. It really is amazing and scary at the same time if you think about it.

Fair points, but i suspect if they went for s slightly slimmer profit margin, then they could use fewer suppliers to make more of the components.
As an ex-investment banker (more licking windows than eating crayons), i can assure you i know what i'm talking about.

 

[f1eng]

Fair points, but i suspect if they went for s slightly slimmer profit margin, then they could use fewer suppliers to make more of the components.
As an ex-investment banker (more licking windows than eating crayons), i can assure you i now what i'm talking about.

Yes but as a manufacturer they have to be as cost concious as their customers, which is in most cases, very.
I note that for a huge number of people budget is their single overiding parameter in making a purchase choice.
It is objectively bonkers IMO but part of our culture.

 

[BigBob]

Yes but as a manufacturer they have to be as cost concious as their customers, which is in most cases, very.
I note that for a huge number of people budget is their single overiding parameter in making a purchase choice.
It is objectively bonkers IMO but part of our culture.

Hmmm. I think most people on here aren't that cost conscious given how much we discuss things like paying for shiny paint coatings and electric filler caps.

Admittedly, it maybe slightly different on hondajazzforum.com

 

[f1eng]

Hmmm. I think most people on here aren't that cost conscious given how much we discuss things like paying for shiny paint coatings and electric filler caps.

Admittedly, it maybe slightly different on hondajazzforum.com

That wasn’t my point.
My last purchase of a car my short list included both a Porsche Panamera Sport Turismo hybrid and a Toyota Prius PHEV because in my my parameters price was not a main driver of decision.

I am personally amazed the “standard procedure” seems to be “how much can I afford“ comes before “what best suits my needs”.

 

[annieland]

I was the kid on the back of the class playing chess with a friend (true story btw). We both have interesting jobs in tech today. I have seen however what it takes to arrange production logistics, and it is mind boggling. To make a high tech chip, you know, that little piece of plastic the size of a postage stamp, one of many in the Taycan, takes 35+ suppliers. Yep, just for that one chip, 35 different companies need to deliver their products just in time. Now go count how many chips there are in a Taycan, then how many other parts. Porsche claims 560 suppliers delivering direct to the Taycan production line. That does not count individual suppliers which deliver to produce those components (such as the chips used in the ECU's). I would think if you counted all the suppliers which cannot fail in order to produce a Taycan, it would be 5,000+, maybe even 20,000+. Any one of them can cause a chain delay. Neon gas from Ukraine was not delivered, causing the SoC for PMC to not be made, causing the boards for PCM not being made, causing no PCM to install in a Taycan, even if all other parts arrived on time.

I saw a presentation once from a guy who decided to make a toaster, without ANY suppliers. He did give himself unlimited travel budget though, so when he wanted metal ore he could fly down to a place where he could dig it out of the ground himself. He also gave himself unlimited tool budget. It took him and his research partner 2 years of work, many flights and drives, and the darn thing burned out on the first piece of bread it was attempting to toast. It was as simple of an analog toaster as you can imagine (looked like crap too). Humanity as a whole is incredibly dependent on supply chains. Heck, I live in Washington state USA, yet the vast majority of water which I drink every day comes from freakin Italy! I don't know where the plastics for the bottle or the labels come from, or where the bottles and labels are made. It really is amazing and scary at the same time if you think about it.

Two words come to mind: I, Pencil

https://www.econlib.org/library/Essays/rdPncl.html?chapter_num=2#book-reader

 

[RGBArgee]

Bloody Brexit - I'll be 12 months if not more, we should have voted to stay in Europe!

It was a corrupt Advisory referendum... says High Court Judge. Brexit has been high jacked by the uber right wing. General Election needed plus if you look at the Tory Manifesto 2015 we were promised a second vote once a deal was known with the option to REMAIN. When is that happening...

 

[Kev946]

It was a corrupt Advisory referendum... says High Court Judge. Brexit has been high jacked by the uber right wing. General Election needed plus if you look at the Tory Manifesto 2015 we were promised a second vote once a deal was known with the option to REMAIN. When is that happening...

Agreed but unfortunately i fear the extreme right wing tories will get in again and nothing will change.

 

[RGBArgee]

Agreed but unfortunately i fear the extreme right wing tories will get in again and nothing will change.

We need to make sure they don’t!!

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