I Need Insight

[f1eng]

Quite so.
Whilst there are continued shortages this experience may well happen again.
Last year it was a 12V battery shortage, this year some failed heaters.

There were a couple of thousand 2022 cars awaiting batteries in the 3rd quarter of 2022 and 2023 cars were being delivered to customers before they were complete.
A big deal if MY is an obsession, it wasn’t for me and I even got the wheels painted as I wanted which weren’t available on a 2023 car.

The risk is it will happen again with the next shortage so no guarantee of no delays if one cancels and re-orders though some people have been OK.

I was a first time Porsche buyer and I suspect my dealer let regular customers jump the queue so my order was 9 months from order to “start production” then 3 ½ months in production but “finished” without 12V battery then 4 more months before I got it.

I nearly cancelled. I’m glad I didn’t.

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[Hanny]

There seems to be a reoccurring theme with statements of lost value because a car is sat in a field, think you will find, as mention by a few that ALL new cars sit somewhere prior to first registration and delivery and warranty does not start until the PDI/acceptance signatur.

It appears that there are two factors adding to the frustrations - first, there is an unprecedented logistics and supply chain issues around the World that was/is unforeseen and has impacted ALL manufacturers and suppliers… not just in the automotive industry. Second, todays media technology is such that is a vast amount of information now available which was never previously such as bill numbers, production tracking, even companies internal processes…..this leads to, at times, too much information available to the public.

I would thought that the general rule of thumb for car valuations (main key points) would be:

• Model Year (MY)
• Date of first registration (done normally at a dealer not production or delivery stages)
• Model Type/Specification
• Mileage
• Condition
• Sometimes a wild card would be how many produced or limited edition (Taycan currently a main stream luxary vehicle)

As with all manufacturer, Porsche are simply operating for revenue/profit and their priority is to their shareholders. They will always be guarded with any public announcements and will/would never openly admit any shortcomings. Commercially, as long as they have made a statement prior to payment of any pending impacts, they have done what they need to, in our case with Taycan they stated that there is a potential for delays due to supply chain on the configurator and contract fine print.

Now this does not ease the frustrations arising with those who are waiting but I’m sure that many dealers are equally frustrated, as they are not Porsche corporate, they are franchise/suppliers that don’t get paid until the car is released to the customer.

I too found myself questioning if I wanted to continue with my order of my over the top spec’d 4S (excuse to show my build config ?) but i simply can’t find an alternative that meets my needs and wants. I know that there are delays, but also understand there are faults and would prefer for a delayed delivery than to get it earlier only for said item(s) to fail once in my possession.

This situation is not unique to the Porsche brand - personally I don’t see much point with cancelling my current order only to re-order with potent 20% price increase and restart in the waiting que for another order…..nothing to say that they won’t find other faults with MY24 models …… ‘rinse and repeat’.

…….sorry for long post, also sorry for not being able to give an answer to solve frustrations but all this is very much 1st World issues and I think some are robbing themselves of the ‘build up’, (sorry for pun), to an exciting day when your Taycan gets delivered.

 

[Kev946]

There seems to be a reoccurring theme with statements of lost value because a car is sat in a field, think you will find, as mention by a few that ALL new cars sit somewhere prior to first registration and delivery and warranty does not start until the PDI/acceptance signatur.

It appears that there are two factors adding to the frustrations - first, there is an unprecedented logistics and supply chain issues around the World that was/is unforeseen and has impacted ALL manufacturers and suppliers… not just in the automotive industry. Second, todays media technology is such that is a vast amount of information now available which was never previously such as bill numbers, production tracking, even companies internal processes…..this leads to, at times, too much information available to the public.

I would thought that the general rule of thumb for car valuations (main key points) would be:

• Model Year (MY)
• Date of first registration (done normally at a dealer not production or delivery stages)
• Model Type/Specification
• Mileage
• Condition
• Sometimes a wild card would be how many produced or limited edition (Taycan currently a main stream luxary vehicle)

As with all manufacturer, Porsche are simply operating for revenue/profit and their priority is to their shareholders. They will always be guarded with any public announcements and will/would never openly admit any shortcomings. Commercially, as long as they have made a statement prior to payment of any pending impacts, they have done what they need to, in our case with Taycan they stated that there is a potential for delays due to supply chain on the configurator and contract fine print.

Now this does not ease the frustrations arising with those who are waiting but I’m sure that many dealers are equally frustrated, as they are not Porsche corporate, they are franchise/suppliers that don’t get paid until the car is released to the customer.

I too found myself questioning if I wanted to continue with my order of my over the top spec’d 4S (excuse to show my build config ?) but i simply can’t find an alternative that meets my needs and wants. I know that there are delays, but also understand there are faults and would prefer for a delayed delivery than to get it earlier only for said item(s) to fail once in my possession.

This situation is not unique to the Porsche brand - personally I don’t see much point with cancelling my current order only to re-order with potent 20% price increase and restart in the waiting que for another order…..nothing to say that they won’t find other faults with MY24 models …… ‘rinse and repeat’.

…….sorry for long post, also sorry for not being able to give an answer to solve frustrations but all this is very much 1st World issues and I think some are robbing themselves of the ‘build up’, (sorry for pun), to an exciting day when your Taycan gets delivered.

I don't share your tolerance. We have paid too much for these cars already and expect better customer service. No car should be made with a major component missing. Leaving any vehicle standing for a prolonged period will do damage. Yes we have warranty but not everything will be found in the first 2 years and if it's a degradation in battery range for example then there would be nothing you can do on warranty unless the degradation is significant. Tyres will get a flat spot even if they are over inflated. Tyre manufacturers suggest taking the weight off the tyres if a vehicle is left standing for prolonged periods. What is unforgivable is keeping the buyer in the dark deliberately but of course if they tell all the thousands of people that are in this position many will cancel their order putting the dealers in a position of having cars they have to paid for but then remain unsold to an end customer. Then dealers may have to discount these cars to move them on.

It's a mess and if like me you are in this position you either wait and hope the delay is not 6-8 months which I believe some people in the US have been told OR you cancel your order and re-order to a new allocation or buy a used car. Or of course run away from Porsche and order from another manufacturer.

 

[whitex]

I was a first time Porsche buyer and I suspect my dealer let regular customers jump the queue so my order was 9 months from order to “start production” then 3 ½ months in production but “finished” without 12V battery then 4 more months before I got it.

Maybe not. In the US, actual allocation to production time of 9 months is not unheard of for Taycan allocations. My allocation was 7 months from when it got locked as a CT (by the dealer) to start of production. How far after the order did you receive a commission number?

 

[f1eng]

How far after the order did you receive a commission number?

I don’t know what a commission number is, maybe not something communicated in the UK???
There was some sort of order number I could put into My Porsche which gave a VIN number eventually. If that is it I don’t remember when it was available but something I was given when I asked how to get info from the My Porsche page.

 

[f1eng]

I too found myself questioning if I wanted to continue with my order of my over the top spec’d 4S (excuse to show my build config ?) but i simply can’t find an alternative that meets my needs and wants.

That was very much me too.

None of the used ones I have seen were what I want.

I wouldn’t consider a car with privacy glass, a glass roof or a monochrome colour which pretty well ruled all of the used ones out.

I didn’t want any software override of my driving but warnings from sensors are a godsend for me, so no “driver aids” but extra parking and blind spot sensors were what I wanted.

It was obvious that there was never going to be a used Taycan with a spec I was prepared to pay for so sticking with the order was the only choice.

I am glad I did.

 

[irrelevant]

...
It appears that there are two factors adding to the frustrations - first, there is an unprecedented logistics and supply chain issues around the World that was/is unforeseen and has impacted ALL manufacturers and suppliers… not just in the automotive industry. ...

I agree with your overall point. That said It appears the wait for a new Tesla Model S is less than a month, so someone out there has figured out supply chain challenges (and 12-v batteries, and heaters) after three years.

Three years.

Personally, I am fatigued from hearing "supply chain" excuses from anyone and everyone, in any industry, to explain away poor customer service. The next time I meet someone who tells me they work in supply chain management, I'll smile politely and pause for a moment to be thankful our society has created jobs for the kids who sat in the back of the classroom eating their crayons.

 

[Hanny]

@Kev946 please don’t get me wrong, I understand your frustration but as these delays are an issue. There does not seem to be an immediate solution except either wait or cancel. The latter ‘may’ have the possibility of delays but a year later or so for a MY24, plus 20% price increase which to me presents its own ‘cause and effects’…. Definitely a deep thought scenario.

 

[Hanny]

@irrelevant - in the UK the Plaid has still not arrived and some have waited a long time

 

[Kev946]

@Kev946 please don’t get me wrong, I understand your frustration but as these delays are an issue. There does not seem to be an immediate solution except either wait or cancel. The latter ‘may’ have the possibility of delays but a year later or so for a MY24, plus 20% price increase which to me presents its own ‘cause and effects’…. Definitely a deep thought scenario.

Dealer told me to expect 5% increase and prospect of some extras becoming standard. Prices are already sky high in France. So I'm willing to wait for a MY24 and will also consider a used Turbo or Turbo S.

 

[irrelevant]

@irrelevant - in the UK the Plaid has still not arrived and some have waited a long time

That's probably not a bad thing. By the time they get there, maybe they'll have corrected those defective steering wheels they've been installing.

 

[WasserGKuehlt]

Personally, I am fatigued from hearing "supply chain" excuses from anyone and everyone, in any industry, to explain away poor customer service. The next time I meet someone who tells me they work in supply chain management, I'll smile politely and pause for a moment to be thankful our society has created jobs for the kids who sat in the back of the classroom eating their crayons.

Totally with you on fatigue - it just doesn't seem to be a valid and genuine excuse anymore. I do have a problem with the second part of your statement - funny/cute as a mean joke, but surely you do understand how enormously complex logistics is/can be as a field? Or did you mean that the smart kids were at the back, eating crayons out of boredom? (No, I don't work in logistics, nor did I eat crayons. I may have sat at the back.)

Incidentally, the HV heater-induced delay isn't one of pure "supply chain"; until very recently, it was an issue without a clear root cause. Presumably that meant assiduous work at Porsche and their OEM supplier to repro the defect, analyze it, fix it, elaborate a plan for integrating the fix into the constraints of the existing vehicle/platform, integrate the new design into the manufacturing process, testing the newly built prototypes and finally starting mass production of the fixed part. (And then delivering the fixed parts to the various corners of the world - aka 'the fields' - where vehicles in need of the updated part are stored, with clear instructions for installation.)

I'm sure this all sounds trivial, and not worthy of A+/top-grade engineering*, but it does take time.

*/s, just in case it wasn't clear.

 

[annieland]

Totally with you on fatigue - it just doesn't seem to be a valid and genuine excuse anymore. I do have a problem with the second part of your statement - funny/cute as a mean joke, but surely you do understand how enormously complex logistics is/can be as a field? Or did you mean that the smart kids were at the back, eating crayons out of boredom? (No, I don't work in logistics, nor did I eat crayons. I may have sat at the back.)

Incidentally, the HV heater-induced delay isn't one of pure "supply chain"; until very recently, it was an issue without a clear root cause. Presumably that meant assiduous work at Porsche and their OEM supplier to repro the defect, analyze it, fix it, elaborate a plan for integrating the fix into the constraints of the existing vehicle/platform, integrate the new design into the manufacturing process, testing the newly built prototypes and finally starting mass production of the fixed part. (And then delivering the fixed parts to the various corners of the world - aka 'the fields' - where vehicles in need of the updated part are stored, with clear instructions for installation.)

I'm sure this all sounds trivial, and not worthy of A+/top-grade engineering*, but it does take time.

*/s, just in case it wasn't clear.

I never even thought what "supply chain management" even meant until my son was applying to Engineering schools, and his university currently has the #1 Supply Chain Management program in the country. When reading forums and reddit about the application process all I saw was these kids knocking each other over trying to get into this program. I thought to myself, "What kid grows up fantasizing about supply chain??" But I guess it's a thing!

I think it's more companies using it as an "excuse" and while we know it's a huge challenge some of these companies just need to do better. I can tell you though, there are going to be a lot of well-educated kids entering the field soon from Michigan, judging by the unbelievable popularity of this field.

 

[TXSchnee]

The main issue is that Toyota designed "Just in Time" supply chains, which all other auto makes then copied, since it allowed them to do away with parts storage and "save money". Toyota learned after the Fukushima quake that JIT doesn't really work when there is an issue outside of manufacturing, and well we just had 3 years of issues outside of the actual manufacturing. I think that now, since China stopped Zero Covid, we will see less issues with supply chains overall, but it will take awhile to set up more resilience in the entire system. (FYI, I have nothing to do with logistics in any capacity, was an Auto Claims Adjuster prior to staying home with my kids).

 

[IcanIcanOnlyTaycan]

....
I have heard all the excuses of 12V batteries, heaters and port labor issues, but does anyone have any further insight to why to why a $150K sold car cant get shipping priority over a VW Rabbit?

I've been waiting for 13 months and so far I have a CT Turbo S promised for May 2023. I wish you a lot of patience and luck for it to arrive sooner!

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