Outside temperature and range

[Kingske]

I’m still perplexed how the range figures are so good compared to my car (Turbo with 20inch wheels). Re-reading, except for range, those are almost exactly the same stats on my last long-ish trip - 54 miles out and same back in, with half the trip for each leg at 74mph on cruise control in range mode. Eco plus at 20C (68F). Consumption averaged 45KwH/100miles on the way out, and, after getting back, the average consumption for the whole trip was just over 40KwH/100miles (so I assume 35KwH/100miles give or take on the way back with a warmer battery). 4C (39F) outside. Humidity was way up at 98% so I can only guess that’s the reason for the difference. Maybe.

Hi @DocB , 40kWh/100miles is indeed markedly higher in similar conditions than what I am measuring. Did you calculate your consumption from the SoC% drop or read it from the Trip display? The 20" Aero(?) wheels are pretty efficient too and I would be surprised if those added more than 5% of consumption compared to the 19" wheels. Turbo vs. 4S is likely to consume somewhat more as well, but unlikely to explain the entire difference. I also have manual charge port covers which do not block the side air flow the way the automatic ones do (a Porsche company representative told me it makes a difference), but that can only be a minor contributor. Finally, do Taycans come with a heat pump in the UK as those do in the US? Are there any references to high humidity being a contributing factor to higher consumption?

Sponsored

 

[Kingske]

Also, I do not know which of the measurement methods is the most reliable. According to the SoC% method, I should have consumed 32.6 kWh and will therefore need to add 20.0 kWh to charge it back up to 85%. According to the Trip method, I should have consumed 37.0 kWh and will therefore need to add 24.4 kWh to charge it back up to 85%. I will start charging now and will let you know how many kWh were needed to reach 85%.

My re-charging to 85% meanwhile ended and the car needed 26.0kWh to get there. Taking some charge efficiency losses (6%?) into account, this would be closest to what the Trip display consumption would have suggested. It suggests that the (higher) consumption numbers in the Trip display might be more accurate than the (lower) numbers achieved by using the SoC% drop and the assumed usable battery capacity. If so, my 110 miles trip today saw a consumption of 33.6kWh/100 miles and not 29.6kWh/100 miles in about 40F degree weather. If the usable battery capacity is indeed 83.7 kWh, then this would translate into a range of 249 miles (based on Trip display consumption) instead of 281 miles (based on SoC% consumption). Am I missing something? Could it be that the SoC% measurement is not linear with the actual state of charge of the battery but drops slower above 50% and faster below?

 

[wemct]

Based on your calculations even at the higher rate of consumption in the cold weather, for my upcoming road trip I will be able to travel more than 150 miles between EA chargers targeting approx 20% SOC on arrival at the charger and topping off around 85% when the rate of charge has diminishing returns as mentioned by @evanevery. This is about 2 hours between stops which will give me a chance to stretch and shop at Walmart during daylight hours.

 

[Kingske]

Based on your calculations even at the higher rate of consumption in the cold weather, for my upcoming road trip I will be able to travel more than 150 miles between EA chargers targeting approx 20% SOC on arrival at the charger and topping off around 85% when the rate of charge has diminishing returns as mentioned by @evanevery. This is about 2 hours between stops which will give me a chance to stretch and shop at Walmart during daylight hours.

Definitely

 

[Kingske]

My re-charging to 85% meanwhile ended and the car needed 26.0kWh to get there. Taking some charge efficiency losses (6%?) into account, this would be closest to what the Trip display consumption would have suggested. It suggests that the (higher) consumption numbers in the Trip display might be more accurate than the (lower) numbers achieved by using the SoC% drop and the assumed usable battery capacity. If so, my 110 miles trip today saw a consumption of 33.6kWh/100 miles and not 29.6kWh/100 miles in about 40F degree weather. If the usable battery capacity is indeed 83.7 kWh, then this would translate into a range of 249 miles (based on Trip display consumption) instead of 281 miles (based on SoC% consumption). Am I missing something? Could it be that the SoC% measurement is not linear with the actual state of charge of the battery but drops slower above 50% and faster below?

It is not impossible that the real usable battery capacity is not 83.7kWh as advertised but larger, as suggested in the video of this real-world test below where it is measured to be 87.0kWh.

 

[domin1720]

Some of the most interesting things happen "at Electrify America chargers in the middle of the night in deserted Walmart parking lots".

;-)

A few months ago right around dawn I had the pleasure of watching a few pretty good fist fights and cat fights in the row of cars in front of the EA stations. Two families all going at it and then of course multiple police cars to follow. Great charging session !!!!!

 

[evanevery]

Based on your calculations even at the higher rate of consumption in the cold weather, for my upcoming road trip I will be able to travel more than 150 miles between EA chargers targeting approx 20% SOC on arrival at the charger and topping off around 85% when the rate of charge has diminishing returns as mentioned by @evanevery. This is about 2 hours between stops which will give me a chance to stretch and shop at Walmart during daylight hours.

Yup... Inexperienced "experts" generally tend to sit down with their slide rules and quickly calculate the longest possible range and most efficient charging sessions. Just look at a few recent stories in the press (both EV bikes and cars) where journalists have hopped in/on an EV and found this out the hard way.

I has also been my real world life experience that 2-hrs between charging stops is right about at the perfect comfort factor (for me). You might stretch it further, but that just means you will spend more time driving what has now become a more stressful leg. I'll take a shorter, more enjoyable, leg with a backup charging option further down the road (NOT behind me).

While 200+ miles can actually be a reality with a Daily Driver around town (since your home charger is never too far away), I think you are spot on with your 2-hr estimate (140-150 miles) on the highway. This also depends somewhat on the relative sparsity of public chargers where you will be traveling and the model Taycan you are driving. (My numbers are based on the TurboS).

I don't mind the "EV Road Trip challenge" from time-to-time. Generally, its actually an anticipated component (if not the whole point) of the entire trip. Understand its likely going to take about %20 longer (in my experience) than if done in an ICE so be sure its equally "anticipated" by everyone in the car! (I usually "EV Road Trip" alone). It can also be fun talking with folks at public chargers as they pull up and ask you about the EV experience. ..and Yes, even at Walmarts. Some of the nicest (most interesting) folks I've met have been at Walmart charging stops!

Have fun! Tell us how it goes! Let us know where you find your personal "Sweet Spot" in charge planning! I'm also curious what you find your EV Time Factor to be (vs ICE)...

 

[evanevery]

A few months ago right around dawn I had the pleasure of watching a few pretty good fist fights and cat fights in the row of cars in front of the EA stations. Two families all going at it and then of course multiple police cars to follow. Great charging session !!!!!

You usually have to PAY for quality entertainment like that!

 

[Doc B]

Hi @DocB , 40kWh/100miles is indeed markedly higher in similar conditions than what I am measuring. Did you calculate your consumption from the SoC% drop or read it from the Trip display? The 20" Aero(?) wheels are pretty efficient too and I would be surprised if those added more than 5% of consumption compared to the 19" wheels. Turbo vs. 4S is likely to consume somewhat more as well, but unlikely to explain the entire difference. I also have manual charge port covers which do not block the side air flow the way the automatic ones do (a Porsche company representative told me it makes a difference), but that can only be a minor contributor. Finally, do Taycans come with a heat pump in the UK as those do in the US? Are there any references to high humidity being a contributing factor to higher consumption?

Hi Kingske, sorry for the delay. Just wanted to check my notes so that I have the exact figures. Yes, I am that sad that I have taken notes. I got the numbers slightly wrong but not far off:

First leg: 53 miles, consumption data, 41.5 kWh/100 miles. Used SoC 25%.

Second leg: 51.8 miles (slightly different road layout on the way back. Used SoC 23%.

Total trip, 104.8 miles, consumption data 39.1 kWh/100 miles, used SoC 48%.

So: 1. There is a discrepancy between SoC and consumption figures based upon usable capacity of 83.7KwH, but not as much of a discrepancy than I have seen before. It does seem that the divergence narrows the further you drive which means that possibly the issue is that when you start out the battery hasn’t balanced fully between cells - I literally unplugged from charging then left which means perhaps the battery management software has not had time to balance so SoC does not change in a linear fashion. Or...83.7 kWh is no longer the correct figure...

2. When charging I have also seen non-linear SoC - i.e. no change on SoC after putting in “x” KwH and then a big jump in a few % after adding a further “x” KwH.

3. Still can’t work out how range is so much different for me (and a few other UK owners) from a lot of the US figures I’ve seen. Heat pumps are meant to be standard in UK Taycan’s and I do have the 20 inch Aero wheels. I also have the manual charge cover. I think humidity has a significant effect on aerodynamics so that’s my only real thought.

 

[Kingske]

Hi Kingske, sorry for the delay. Just wanted to check my notes so that I have the exact figures. Yes, I am that sad that I have taken notes. I got the numbers slightly wrong but not far off:

First leg: 53 miles, consumption data, 41.5 kWh/100 miles. Used SoC 25%.

Second leg: 51.8 miles (slightly different road layout on the way back. Used SoC 23%.

Total trip, 104.8 miles, consumption data 39.1 kWh/100 miles, used SoC 48%.

So: 1. There is a discrepancy between SoC and consumption figures based upon usable capacity of 83.7KwH, but not as much of a discrepancy than I have seen before. It does seem that the divergence narrows the further you drive which means that possibly the issue is that when you start out the battery hasn’t balanced fully between cells - I literally unplugged from charging then left which means perhaps the battery management software has not had time to balance so SoC does not change in a linear fashion. Or...83.7 kWh is no longer the correct figure...

2. When charging I have also seen non-linear SoC - i.e. no change on SoC after putting in “x” KwH and then a big jump in a few % after adding a further “x” KwH.

3. Still can’t work out how range is so much different for me (and a few other UK owners) from a lot of the US figures I’ve seen. Heat pumps are meant to be standard in UK Taycan’s and I do have the 20 inch Aero wheels. I also have the manual charge cover. I think humidity has a significant effect on aerodynamics so that’s my only real thought.

@Doc B , you may be right with your hunch about humidity. Humid air indeed causes markedly more drag than drier air. Other than in July or August, New Jersey seldom experiences the kind of high humidity that you are used to in Britain (or I was used to myself when I still lived in Belgium during the previous century).

 

[Doc B]

@Doc B , you may be right with your hunch about humidity. Humid air indeed causes markedly more drag than drier air. Other than in July or August, New Jersey seldom experiences the kind of high humidity that you are used to in Britain (or I was used to myself when I still lived in Belgium during the previous century).

Yeah the humidity is super sneaky over here. I used to live in DC where the humidity was so thick during the Summer that you could bite through it. Here you just don’t realise how humid it is during the Winter. I checked my app one day in December and it was 100%. Just felt like a normal cold day outside.

 

[Kingske]

Yeah the humidity is super sneaky over here. I used to live in DC where the humidity was so thick during the Summer that you could bite through it. Here you just don’t realise how humid it is during the Winter. I checked my app one day in December and it was 100%. Just felt like a normal cold day outside.

Maybe we should just enjoy driving our cars without thinking too much about consumption. Meanwhile, stay safe in the middle of this nasty COVID wave in the UK. Things are bad in the US but look quite alarming over at your end. Vaccines are more important than Taycans.

 

[feye]

It is not entirely clear to me why there is an 11-14% difference between both consumption

Interesting, but I would never calculate consumption based on net capacity of the battery. How much power the battery can store depends on a lot of factors and is not precise at all. At least this is my conclusion from my various charging sessions to 100%.

I would ever only calculation consumption based on a meter. Either the one in the BC, or the one on the Porsche Charger, or the grid meter.

I even have the suspicion, that the net capacity of the battery in good condition is quite a bit larger than what Porsche officially states.

 

[Doc B]

Maybe we should just enjoy driving our cars without thinking too much about consumption. Meanwhile, stay safe in the middle of this nasty COVID wave in the UK. Things are bad in the US but look quite alarming over at your end. Vaccines are more important than Taycans.

Completely agree with you. Stay safe out there.

 

[NC_Taycan]

Interesting, but I would never calculate consumption based on net capacity of the battery. How much power the battery can store depends on a lot of factors and is not precise at all. At least this is my conclusion from my various charging sessions to 100%.

I would ever only calculation consumption based on a meter. Either the one in the BC, or the one on the Porsche Charger, or the grid meter.

I even have the suspicion, that the net capacity of the battery in good condition is quite a bit larger than what Porsche officially states.

This is a key point. You can't directly monitor the state of charge of Li-Ion batteries. The battery controller estimates the state of charge by accumulating the energy in vs. energy out. This can be measured, but since you don't know the starting or ending point, let's call this variable #1. The potential for the battery to store and deliver energy definitely depends on the battery temperature. Let's call this variable #2. Then there is how many miles/km you will get for a given amount of energy. Lets call this variable #3. The displayed range is a function of all three variables and none of them are exact.

Sponsored