The argument for RAS

[Archimedes]

Not a fact. An opinion. And a pretty useless one at that.

People’s opinion of the 19.2kW charger is useless if they didn’t option? They can’t calculate their needs and figure it out?

I didn’t option the pano roof. I don’t like glass roofs; any of them. I don’t like how they look on the outside or inside. I’d pay more to not have it. But my opinion is useless because I didn’t option it?

FFS, I could go on and on, but anyone who didn’t option something had some reason for not doing so. Maybe it’s applicable to another person and maybe it’s not. That’s for the reader to decide. But for you or another to dismiss all opinions of anyone who didn’t tick the option in question without qualification is silly.

Quite the echo chamber, but it seems that’s all the OP wanted all along anyway.

So please tell us how you can have a useful opinion on RAS if you’ve never driven a car with it?

It would be like me saying Burmester isn’t worth it, even though I’ve never owned a car with it. My opinion would be of little value to anyone.

Your pano roof analogy is meaningless as almost everyone buying a Taycan would have owned a glass roof car before.

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[Ross]

Par for the course on Porsche forums. The people who didn't choose an option and have never owned a car with it are typically the most opinionated about said option. RAS has nothing on PCCBs in this regard.

Love your passion!!
From spending way too much time on this forum, my impression is that, typically, the most opinionated are the people justifying the options they paid for! People rarely drive cars, or even sit in them, without options as the dealer cars are always loaded.
People who buy lower spec cars have more often driven loaded cars and decided they don’t need stuff.
You, having driven with and without is of course the most valid opinion and thank you for sharing!

 

[Ross]

And I’d be the first to tell you that I regret certain options now that I have my car.

Go on then!!
Hi again Peter!
This could be your Eureka moment!
These are the opinions that are the most valid to me.
If you actually have paid for options that you regret it is great, useful and 100% valid info to tell us what they are and potentially save us all some money in the future!
I chickened out and got the big battery and the DC charge upgrade but honestly, never took advantage of either! Almost certainly got a higher resale but not high enough to compensate for the £4300 spend. I also got the Pano roof so I could use a roof rack and NEVER used the roof rack!
The glass roof turned out to be unexpectedly nice! Made the car nice and airy. First roof I have ever specced on a car. I don’t like them normally.
Cheers!

 

[Jhenson29]

So please tell us how you can have a useful opinion on RAS if you’ve never driven a car with it?

If it were true that a person’s opinion of an option is useless if they never had the option previously, then the OP’s thread is futile.

OP’s target audience is people who haven’t had RAS and are trying to make a decision. But their decision will ultimately be based on their own opinion, which, according to you, has an upper bound of “useless”. The validity of their opinion for their own decision is capped at the floor and there’s simply no room for the OP to affect improvement.

That’s quite obviously nonsense, so I therefore reject your premise.

The fact is the reasoning people used for their decisions has the potential to assist other people faced with similar decisions.

And everyone can form reasoning about an option whether or not they’ve had it before. They have to do so to be able to determine whether or not to select an option.

For the pano roof, I have not had a glass roof before. However, it’s my opinion that a smaller feeling cabin can help the car feel sportier on the inside, excluding cabs, which are my actual preference. But the statement applies for roof up driving

For the stereo, I optioned Bose because I felt like the lack of sub would likely make it feel empty. But the Burmester is not worth it to me. I mostly listen to NPR/BBC and podcasts. But when I do listen to music, I’m not terribly discerning about the sound quality, with the addition of the sub being my lower bound. I simply don’t need any improvement over the Bose at that price point. How much the improvement is doesn’t really matter. The Bose is sufficient and I have no desire to further optimize that aspect of the car.

And, for RAS, I was also similarly not looking to optimize that aspect of the car. It was replacing a Panamera, so the turning radius was already improving. But we really didn’t need and weren’t looking for improvement over the Panamera. The improvement was incidental. I’ve had cars with a better turning radius (Wrangler, Elise) and I’ve had cars with a worse turning radius (Ram). And it largely made no difference in my day to day driving. The OP states “you use it every time you drive”, and while that may technically be true, it’s not the same as benefiting from it every time you drive. If my drive did not consist of any tight turns, then what was the actual benefit to me? And addressing the performance at speed, we were largely not looking to optimize that either. We wanted a Taycan 4 to replace a Panamera 4, but had to settle for the 4S since the 4 never came along. The baseline performance is adequate.

And that’s really another point to make. People without a particular option can provide their feedback on whether or not they feel their car is lacking without the option. And that’s also not useless. I have a 4S and @4thPcar has a RWD. If he stated that his car’s acceleration is sufficient, I would not dismiss that as useless just because he didn’t option a car with higher acceleration. That opinion may be useful to other people considering RWD who are worried about the lower acceleration. Similarly, someone who is afraid of losing something by not selecting RAS may be helped to hear that people without it doing feel like the car is lacking.

My last thought is that my opinions on options are presented as my own and how they apply to me. Other people can have different opinion and values and reject my reasoning as it applies to themselves. That doesn’t make my opinion any less valid as it’s scope was only ever for myself.

I think I’ve said all I have to say on the matter and will not respond any further. If you still cling to your “useless” opinion, then I’ll simply conclude you have the reasoning skills of a potato. And while I generally like potatoes, not in this case.

 

[Archimedes]

Go on then!!
Hi again Peter!
This could be your Eureka moment!
These are the opinions that are the most valid to me.

Two things I’d do different ordering today. First, I’d drop ACC. I don’t use it much and when I do, I don’t think it’s great. The LKA feature is downright awful. For my use case, this was $2k thrown away. For people who are in stop and go traffic a lot, it probably makes sense. ACC was the very last thing I added to my build and I wish I had spent that money elsewhere.

Second, while I thought I liked the Bose in the cars I test drove, I think I’d throw money at the Burmester, even if it was only a little better. I love this car and spend a lot of time in it. A better sound system would be nice.

 

[Skilly]

If it were true that a person’s opinion of an option is useless if they never had the option previously, then the OP’s thread is futile.

OP’s target audience is people who haven’t had RAS and are trying to make a decision. But their decision will ultimately be based on their own opinion, which, according to you, has an upper bound of “useless”. The validity of their opinion for their own decision is capped at the floor and there’s simply no room for the OP to affect improvement.

Wow. Salty...and frankly odd. If I stretch myself, I can see the "logic" you are applying but if I am the OP trying to determine with the consensus of feedback the value of the option, I would weigh those that had it to determine whether then feel value from their cost rather than a simple "I didn't see a need and don't regret my decision." Sure, yours an opinion but we all know what they say about everybody having one of those.

I think it's pretty reasonable to think the question would be born out of having budget and I wanting to spend it wisely. Ultimately, is it worth it? An answer that is rooted in 'I didn't get it, but I don't regret it' is interesting, but has no credibility beyond you deciding that cash in your pocket is the better choice.

Speaking on the OPs behalf and explaining their logic to justify yours is an interesting take. Moreover, limiting it to your feedback being more valuable than actual experience...weird. Keyboard warrior logic....

 

[Skilly]

Second, while I thought I liked the Bose in the cars I test drove, I think I’d throw money at the Burmester, even if it was only a little better. I love this car and spend a lot of time in it. A better sound system would be nice.

FWIW, I had a 911 TTS Cab that was Bose vs, Burmeister. I retrofitted something equivalent post delivery and it ended up being about triple the cost to have comparative sound. The Burmeister, especially in your case with seat time as the catalyst is totally worth it!

 

[W1NGE]

I've been on some other threads advising future owners on the benefits of Rear Axle Steering (and seeing pushback from others), so I thought I'd summarize here all the reasons its a game changer for me. I live in SoCal where our roads are probably much wider than in Europe so take this advice and multiply by 2 if you live there or other more mature communities.

1. Unlike some other features that don't impact performance or are not used often (great example: fake noise, sport chrono clock, any cosmetics), and unless you are driving in circles to show off your new ride, you will use RAS, literally every time you take out the car. Parking is easier in tight places. The chance of curbs grinding your wheels is slightly diminished.

2. You can turn the car like its a spinning top in tight places. Good example: If you are parking at spots that are angled to the curb, you can pull out, turn the wheel the other way, and return in the direction from whence you came.

3. Its a big car and if you are coming from a smaller Porsche, like a 911, you'll appreciate the feature. If you are in a parking lot, did not find a space in the lane you went down, you can turn around without doing a 3-pt turn. I think I can turn in tighter spaces with this car than I could in my 911.

4. In the US, RAS requires air suspension (no idea why, anybody know?). You'll be glad you bought that too, the ride is amazingly smooth. I won't get into the manual raising and lowering benefit here which strikes me a bit gimmicky.

5. When on the freeway, I am able to jet out of tight traffic, changing lanes quickly as if the other cars are standing still. This may be my imagination, but I attribute it to RAS. Again, coming off a 911S my expectations of a sport car driving experience were high. The car is meeting them.

6. Finally, this is a future-proofing feature. I expect more cars will boast RAS. You are paying a premium for a great driving experience. You are a dime and dollar short (compared to the MSRP overall) by not including this in your spec

Go ahead, tell me I am right or I am wrong!

There is no argument IMHO - tick the box for a must have feature with the added bonus of PSP bundled. One day all cars will have this.

 

[Ross]

Two things I’d do different ordering today. First, I’d drop ACC. I don’t use it much and when I do, I don’t think it’s great. The LKA feature is downright awful. For my use case, this was $2k thrown away. For people who are in stop and go traffic a lot, it probably makes sense. ACC was the very last thing I added to my build and I wish I had spent that money elsewhere.

Second, while I thought I liked the Bose in the cars I test drove, I think I’d throw money at the Burmester, even if it was only a little better. I love this car and spend a lot of time in it. A better sound system would be nice.

Thanks for the feedback!
I haven’t heard the Burm.
I think Bose is definitely louder than the base system but notmuch ‘better’
I didn’t miss ACC on my first Taycan. Ordered it in 2nd to try it out and to play with Inno and LCA on FoD.
We shall see

 

[Archimedes]

FWIW, I had a 911 TTS Cab that was Bose vs, Burmeister. I retrofitted something equivalent post delivery and it ended up being about triple the cost to have comparative sound. The Burmeister, especially in your case with seat time as the catalyst is totally worth it!

Agreed. Live and learn. Porsche has done a masterful job, as they always do, of differentiating option levels just enough to extract maximum market price for them. Sadly, I love my 4S so much, I won't be buying a new Taycan unless something catastrophic happens to this one. So it's BOSE for me for evermore.

 

[Jhenson29]

Moreover, limiting it to your feedback being more valuable than actual experience...weird.

I don’t recall saying my feedback was more valuable or even equal. Just > useless. If you can find where I said otherwise, please quote it. Otherwise, please don’t imply (or outright state) I said things that I did not.

For the record, I agree that feedback from someone with the option is generally (but not always) worth more.

 

[Jhenson29]

Speaking on the OPs behalf and explaining their logic to justify yours

And, where am I speaking on OP's behalf? All I said was who their target audience is, which they stated right here:

I am trying to help those that are debating whether to budget for it

And where did I explain their logic? I was simply stating that valuing the opinions of all people who have not had the option at zero leads to a ridiculous conclusion that is also counter to the OPs stated goal.

 

[4thPcar]

WOW, if I could close this thread as the OP I would, as its gone far beyond its intended purpose. Am I allowed to do that?

I started this b/c I was finding myself answering the questions of buyers who were struggling to decide about RAS. I thought consolidating my thoughts had value, and I would not be tempted to spend more time repeating myself. From the responses I see above, I am satisfied and pleased so many buyers found my experience helpful.

I totally agree with others that I have a bias - otherwise there was no point in my post - I could have offered pros and cons, but I don't know any reason not to spec RAS unless you could not afford it or felt it too expensive for the capabilities offered. It's an opinion grounded in experience (drove with and without) and with several examples to support it. My target audience was buyers, not owners.

While I hope buyers gained value from the post, what I've learned is:

1. I need to be far more specific about my intended audience in future posts. If you did not order it and "don't miss it" I don't believe you are in a position to guide a buyer. I saw little in those replies that would have changed my opinion as a buyer.

2. There are some people truly lacking in emotional intelligence who simply cannot resist to enter the discussion with a primary focus of insulting others. I won't call out names but you know who you are.

Whether you spec RAS or not, you'll have a wonderful vehicle. RAS adds to the experience. That doesn't mean you will necessarily need it or even enjoy it. I've provided one buyer's opinion that appears to be shared with many other buyers that added it to their build.

 

[B61]

@4thPcar : Amen

 

[whan]

I'd say that I've found those that have driven cars both with and without to be very helpful in decision making. I ended up changing my mind recently and adding RAS to my order due to people's feedback, and it mostly was because of that sort of feedback

@Skilly, good to hear that you noticed a performance benefit from the option, since on paper the turning radius benefit seems ok but not game changing (seems to coincide with your feedback as a marginal improvement). For me, the fact that the option seems to gain both a practical and performance benefit was what did it

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