Would you buy your Taycan again?

[whitex]

Like I said, you're just not a car guy are ya. If you can't figure out why a Plaid is faster in a straight line than a TTS... You sound like Tesla is the right car for you, particularly if you can't tell the difference in driving dynamics between the Taycan and a Tesla. Why spend all this extra money on the Porsche, when you can go faster in a straight line in a Tesla and play Fortnite on the PCM while doing so?

LOL. You sound just like Tesla fanboys who always respond that "obviously Tesla is not for you, sell it and leave the forum" to anyone who would point that another car does anything better than a Tesla. Tesla fanboys warship Elon as infallible, who Porsche fanboys like you warship instead?

I'm an equal opportunist when it comes to cars. I can objectively look at both advantages and drawbacks of each car, and make my purchase decisions based on what will best suit me at the moment. Right now I am waiting for a Taycan Turbo CT because overall I decided it is the best car for me as far as cars available to buy today. However, just because a car is my first choice, it doesn't mean I think the car is perfect, or that no other car does anything else better, is more advanced in some aspects, or has higher/better performance.

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[whitex]

Bragging rights are important to some people so there is that as an additional perk for having better 0-60 times. As a marketing ploy, why not? Those, like myself, that really don't care all that much will just ignore it, and it may bring others that place more importance on that stat. How many people place 0-60 at or near the top of their list of must-haves I have no idea.

Passing speed, say 50-80, is much more important to me and all of the cars mentioned should perform acceptably in that regard.

I'd guess that everyone buying a Taycan cares about speed and acceleration up to a point. How fast is fast enough? For me, any car that can do 0-60mph in less than 4 seconds has more pure speed than I'll ever use.

I'm getting a 4S, I liked the idea of dual motors. I dressed it up to my taste and it ended up well above the MSRP for a Turbo. I did consider a GTS, Turbo, and even a Turbo S. But all of the alternatives, especially the Turbo S, were more expensive and really offered me nothing except a few tenths of a second of additional acceleration in launch mode.

Some people do like bragging rights, absolutely. Some even want to brag but cannot afford it, so will buy base versions of a car and dress it up with higher trim badges, painted calipers, etc - fools most people btw. I personally don't care about bragging rights but do care about performance, including horsepower. I have similar sentiments about 0-60 as you. For one, I never use Launch Control - have had it on different cars, used it maybe once per car just to see if it works. I also rarely floor the car off the line because I'm too lazy to keep it clean enough so I won't have to pick up my sunglasses and other loose items from the back seat after such a launch. What I still crave more of however, is power without special Launch modes at passing speeds of 40-80. That's how I ended up choosing a Turbo trim - 4S just seemed a bit underpowered on passing speeds as compared to my current daily driver. However, while I want the Turbo for its performance, I couldn't care less about bragging rights. Performance is for my pleasure of driving. I've always stripped all my cars, a lot of them top perf trim, from any badges or shiny indictors of the trim level because I prefer plain but elegant, white cars which pack as much performance (not just straight line) as I can use. I would absolutely go to Turbo S if it could produce Plaid level power (again, without Launch Control). More range would also be nice, but I've lived with Taycan type range EV's for 9 years now and rarely did I even wish for more range, even during a cost-to-coast round trip I did once, so it's not a high priority for me. All that said, overall, considering all the pluses and minuses, Taycan Turbo CT comes as my first choice for today.

 

[XLR82XS]

I also rarely floor the car off the line because I'm too lazy to keep it clean enough so I won't have to pick up my sunglasses and other loose items from the back seat after such a launch.

Seriously? Why is there so much "loose" junk all over the inside of your car?

 

[Skilly]

FWIW. The Taycan is just all around a better car. Both sides of this conversation are correct and seem like you are all talking over each other.

A modern car gets a lot of its parameters from the dozens of computers making hundreds of decisions per second that translate to a better experience at the wheel...the first was electronic ignition followed by anti-locking brakes, but cars today, like the Porsche have capitalized on this and incorporated it into the design throughout.

it would be logical that they could tweak software to make continuous improvements on the balance between performance and range. I hope they do this in real time with updates!

Porsche is a cut above the Tesla in the packaging and approach. This is pretty much a universally accepted view. The only place it gets challenge in the OTA realm because the design of Tesla from the ground up wasn't restricted with 60 years of development process. That for them, hasn't exactly been a clean system either, but a separate topic.

The TTS and Plaid arent that far off in their stats in these areas. Funny when you incorporate one more parameter into all of this (a critical one) you begin to see Porsche being a better thought out design.

Yes, the Plaid is 'slightly' faster in 0-60 and 1 second faster in the quarter mile; however, what is the most important factor when you are playing with these speeds? STOPPING. Practically, speaking Tesla pretty much forgot that brakes were required for these things....consider stopping power of each measured at 60-0 and its glaringly obvious.

Taycan Turbo S - 60 to 0 = 103 ft
Tesla Plaid - 60 to 0 = 150 ft

In fact, Tesla is the only production car in the world that accelerates faster to 60 than it can brake from 60. No amount of software tweaking will fix that gaping hole in the design.

 

[Jhenson29]

In fact, Tesla is the only production car in the world that accelerates faster to 60 than it can brake from 60. No amount of software tweaking will fix that gaping hole in the design.

No amount? ?

What if they changed the software to slow the 0-60?

Boom. Fixed. I’m turning in my application to Tesla later today. Elon will be pleased with me.

 

[Skilly]

No amount? ?

What if they changed the software to slow the 0-60?

Boom. Fixed. I’m turning in my application to Tesla later today. Elon will be pleased with me.

They already have a fix for that. They just call it the Model S...but its not much better.

 

[whitex]

Seriously? Why is there so much "loose" junk all over the inside of your car?

It accumulates. Sunglasses, parking cards, phone chargers, earbuds,, etc. It is totally fine in a cubby/shelf when driving even spear UDS, (shelf is tilted so stuff doesn't fall out), except when launching with 1G+ the stuff flies from the shelf backwards.

Another thing to always consider when launching is what you have in your trunk. You can make a mess of your groceries or pizza in the trunk by launching hard.

 

[whitex]

You seem to get a lot of your information from marketing materials.

I get information from all available sources. In this case I talked about marketing materials simply because I was replying to a comment about what Porsche emphasizes in their marketing. Context matters.

 

[whitex]

FWIW. The Taycan is just all around a better car. Both sides of this conversation are correct and seem like you are all talking over each other.

A modern car gets a lot of its parameters from the dozens of computers making hundreds of decisions per second that translate to a better experience at the wheel...the first was electronic ignition followed by anti-locking brakes, but cars today, like the Porsche have capitalized on this and incorporated it into the design throughout.

it would be logical that they could tweak software to make continuous improvements on the balance between performance and range. I hope they do this in real time with updates!

Porsche is a cut above the Tesla in the packaging and approach. This is pretty much a universally accepted view. The only place it gets challenge in the OTA realm because the design of Tesla from the ground up wasn't restricted with 60 years of development process. That for them, hasn't exactly been a clean system either, but a separate topic.

The TTS and Plaid arent that far off in their stats in these areas. Funny when you incorporate one more parameter into all of this (a critical one) you begin to see Porsche being a better thought out design.

Yes, the Plaid is 'slightly' faster in 0-60 and 1 second faster in the quarter mile; however, what is the most important factor when you are playing with these speeds? STOPPING. Practically, speaking Tesla pretty much forgot that brakes were required for these things....consider stopping power of each measured at 60-0 and its glaringly obvious.

Taycan Turbo S - 60 to 0 = 103 ft
Tesla Plaid - 60 to 0 = 150 ft

In fact, Tesla is the only production car in the world that accelerates faster to 60 than it can brake from 60. No amount of software tweaking will fix that gaping hole in the design.

Fyi, Telsa announced that Plaid is getting a ceramic brakes option this summer.
https://shop.tesla.com/product/model-s-plaid-carbon-ceramic-brake-kit

If in the rush, there are aftermarket kits available today. Sadly, Elon is still stuck on the stupid stalkless yoke.

 

[Skilly]

Fyi, Telsa announced that Plaid is getting a ceramic brakes option this summer.
https://shop.tesla.com/product/model-s-plaid-carbon-ceramic-brake-kit

If in the rush, there are aftermarket kits available today. Sadly, Elon is still stuck on the stupid stalkless yoke.

that looks like a kit and not an 'option'. Be interesting to see how they price it as an option.

That said,...that's a cash grab if I ever saw one. Unplugged sells the same brembo front set for $8,995 - the rears will be less than fronts, and it seems potentially unnecessary (lots of hybrid setups out there). Most swaps of rears wouldn't likely require a caliper replacement either - just pads and rotors.

https://unpluggedperformance.com/product/model-s-plaid-and-long-range-carbon-ceramic-brake-kit/

 

[Archimedes]

Odd that Taycan forums seem to attract Tesla owners who like to come on and wax on and on about Teslas and software, all the while confirming what most of us already know. Most Tesla owners aren't car guys and they really don't understand what makes a certain car a dynamic experience to drive and another a dullard. Rennlist had the same problem with one specific troll who eventually got the boot, but not before exposing himself as really not knowing anything about what he was talking about.

Software code obviously performs certain functions in every car these days, but it is not what makes a car fantastic to drive. That requires expertise in engineering things like metallurgy, chassis and suspension design and fabrication, weight distribution, chassis ridigity, steering feel, powertrain components, braking systems, and many electromechanical elements that, while partly software controlled, the value is in the system, not the code. I think some people think great EVs require simply throwing an electric motor or two in a car with some good software and, voila, you have a great car. Nothing could be further from the truth. Go on YouTube and watch the Turbo S and Tesla Plaid Nurburgring runs side by side; it'll tell you everything you need to know about the difference in driving dynamics between the Porsche and the appliance strapped to 1,000hp of motors.

 

[Skilly]

Odd that Taycan forums seem to attract Tesla owners who like to come on and wax on and on about Teslas and software, all the while confirming what most of us already know. Most Tesla owners aren't car guys and they really don't understand what makes a certain car a dynamic experience to drive and another a dullard. Rennlist had the same problem with one specific troll who eventually got the boot, but not before exposing himself as really not knowing anything about what he was talking about.

Software code obviously performs certain functions in every car these days, but it is not what makes a car fantastic to drive. That requires expertise in engineering things like metallurgy, chassis and suspension design and fabrication, weight distribution, chassis ridigity, steering feel, powertrain components, braking systems, and many electromechanical elements that, while partly software controlled, the value is in the system, not the code. I think some people think great EVs require simply throwing an electric motor or two in a car with some good software and, voila, you have a great car. Nothing could be further from the truth. Go on YouTube and watch the Turbo S and Tesla Plaid Nurburgring runs side by side; it'll tell you everything you need to know about the difference in driving dynamics between the Porsche and the appliance strapped to 1,000hp of motors.

How about just the basics of a racing division and a history of winning designs (70 year Porsche mic drop)?

Tesla didn't even bother to dip their toe into Formula E as a sponsor...lame. This is why the cars feel like golf carts when you drive them. You can't become great at something you have only experienced academically.

And before the Tesla tribe respond with Tesla's Formula SAE involvement, I preemptively strike with, ...Really?! uh, OK...

 

[whitex]

Software code obviously performs certain functions in every car these days, but it is not what makes a car fantastic to drive. That requires expertise in engineering things like metallurgy, chassis and suspension design and fabrication, weight distribution, chassis ridigity, steering feel, powertrain components, braking systems, and many electromechanical elements that, while partly software controlled, the value is in the system, not the code.

I seriously think you have no idea how much software there is in a Taycan. All the mechanical design that you mention matters a whole lot, however you probably will find if hard to believe, all the software engineering combined took a lot more effort and resources than all the mechanical design. Not all Porsche software is new, they've been adding more and more ECU's to their cars over the years, as well as working with Audi borrowing from them (e.g. PCM, ZFAS, etc). Most software, especially when well designed, you just don't see, which I think is the reason why people underestimate how much it takes to develop. That, and MBA's tend to think that because software is free to replicate (produce), then it's free - hence the phrase "it's just software". That is how VW ended up producing cars (ID.4) which could not drive for a year - they completely underestimated the software effort required.

Go on YouTube and watch the Turbo S and Tesla Plaid Nurburgring runs side by side; it'll tell you everything you need to know about the difference in driving dynamics between the Porsche and the appliance strapped to 1,000hp of motors.

Taycan has better driving dynamics tech. Plaid beat Taycan around the Nurburgring by compensating with more power (the YouTube video I think you are referring to is here) - it can simply accelerate out of corners so much faster than the Taycan.

Now imagine what a Taycan could do if it had Plaid drivetrain (battery, inverters, motors)...

 

[whitex]

that looks like a kit and not an 'option'. Be interesting to see how they price it as an option.

That said,...that's a cash grab if I ever saw one. Unplugged sells the same brembo front set for $8,995 - the rears will be less than fronts, and it seems potentially unnecessary (lots of hybrid setups out there). Most swaps of rears wouldn't likely require a caliper replacement either - just pads and rotors.

https://unpluggedperformance.com/product/model-s-plaid-and-long-range-carbon-ceramic-brake-kit/

It is definitely expensive, though if you wanted to upgrade a Taycan to from steel to ceramics post delivery, I don't think it would be any cheaper. I agree with you about seeing if the same as an option at order time drops to ~$10K, same as Porsche.

 

[gnop1950]

that looks like a kit and not an 'option'. Be interesting to see how they price it as an option.

That said,...that's a cash grab if I ever saw one. Unplugged sells the same brembo front set for $8,995 - the rears will be less than fronts, and it seems potentially unnecessary (lots of hybrid setups out there). Most swaps of rears wouldn't likely require a caliper replacement either - just pads and rotors.

https://unpluggedperformance.com/product/model-s-plaid-and-long-range-carbon-ceramic-brake-kit/

The Tesla kit includes installation but that price still seems a bit steep. Especially for something that seems like it should be on the car by default on the Plaid.

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