When will Porsche release a 1000HP Taycan?

[Skilly]

Ugh, good lord, this is what I get for not drinking my afternoon coffee. Yes, the rotors are iron, thank you for the correction, steel being an inaccurate colloquialism - I promise I'm not actually a moron

Yeah, that's kind of what I was getting at with part of my post, if you're just doing normal driving or even a single maximum effort ABS panic stop the fade effect isn't going to really come into play. But when we discuss the braking distances, on a canyon road or when the car is moving even when driving spiritedly, you're not going to run into a fade condition. If you're doing panic stop after panic stop, of course the carbon will do quite a bit better. But that's a corner test, not something that plays bearing on the day to day need for the ceramics - like I said.

I've done long, very spirted drives on the mountain roads as we all have I'm sure (Skyline Blvd if you know it, being from the area) here on a hot day even, and my rotor temps barely touched 500F while leaning on the brakes quite well, whereas at Laguna, they pushed almost 1000F and I did experience real brake fade. But that's more due to the S4's calipers not being well ventilated and retaining heat like a black stone in the Sahara...but I digress.

for the record I'm not trying to get into an argument with you here - just clarifying what I meant.

Iron or CCB, the current Tesla brake setup is WOEFULLY inadequate. If they didn't have regen braking, my guess is that there would be a class action or safety recall. I've panic stopped in a Model X P100D...not pretty.

It's the only car that goes faster 0-60 than it does 60-0. So, while a $20K option isn't better beyond its heat management capabilities vs an iron option, they certainly need something. With its standard config the brakes are a borderline unsafe and a great indicator that they are not designing cars from the core of driveability.

Most of the advancements in cars are born from racing tech advancements (like CCBs)....Tesla doesn't do any of this - shortfalls like the brake config show this.

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[Skilly]

Btw, in this instance I could play devil's advocate - consumer choice. Not every consumer will track their car, and for their occasional 1000hp launch or highway acceleration the regular brakes (combined with regen) are sufficient. For the vast majority of my Model S driving I use only regen braking, even though I unleash the ludicrous power almost every time I get on the highway.

I have something I use to explain this called "the pilot analogy".

A pilot's skills aren't tested when the weather is perfect and the aircraft lands and takes off on time; no bumps and the giant metal tube lifts everyone to 40,000' and back down again. In fact, a lot of the time, passengers may not even see the pilot or know whose actually flying. A little lightning in any direction, serious turbulence, smoke in the cabin and BOOM we hope to god that the pilot has things under control, and the skills to manage the situation. And, most of all, the aircraft doesn't fail them.

Normal driving without being "tested" the brakes, as long as regen is resident, do the job. That said, brakes should be designed for worse case scenario and with luck rarely or never tested against that. For perspective consider 70-0 stopped Tesla Plaid vs. BMW M5 (roughly same weight and design intent). The stopping distance is almost 30' shorter with the M5. That's just awful.

Tesla didn't release this big brake kit because they wanted to start getting into the upgrade game and compete with companies like Unplugged Performance (which is likely where they source these!). They did it because they HAD too...the Plaid owners were reporting overheating, fire, and rotors cracking.

 

[Skilly]

Lol, well, your normal driving is different than mine then I suppose. I would expect the RWD has sufficient HP for all normal driving scenarios. It should have plenty of power to get in front of someone in a timely manner if needed, unless they accelerate also just for spite….and if you’re going to try to out-accelerate them to get in front, well we probably left normal a few mph ago.

We keep confusing the rate of acceleration with the rate of stopping distance.

Forget how fast you get to 70mph, instead in that moment of panic, envision how much more important it's going to be that your brakes get you from 70-0 in the fastest, safest way possible. HP doesn't help and if anything is a liability drawn out by lack of skill.

FWIW...Tesla clearly confused this too.

 

[Jhenson29]

We keep confusing the rate of acceleration with the rate of stopping distance.

Forget how fast you get to 70mph, instead in that moment of panic, envision how much more important it's going to be that your brakes get you from 70-0 in the fastest, safest way possible. HP doesn't help and if anything is a liability drawn out by lack of skill.

FWIW...Tesla clearly confused this too.

I don’t disagree. If your profile decel outpaces your system decel, you’ve effectively lost control. As it relates to a vehicle, this becomes more likely if there’s an imbalance in motoring and braking power.

Regarding being confused, I think there’s just two different discussions happening, The practicality of the acceleration is just a separate issue.

 

[whitex]

Tesla didn't release this big brake kit because they wanted to start getting into the upgrade game and compete with companies like Unplugged Performance (which is likely where they source these!). They did it because they HAD too...the Plaid owners were reporting overheating, fire, and rotors cracking.

Of course. Hence my mention if "Ship it now, fix it later via OTA, pay for hardware fix only if we have to" in the same post you quoted (very beginning). This is a hardware fix for which Tesla is not paying (because they don't have to, as they didn't violate any official laws or safety rules).

 

[TYKHAAAN]

I've no doubt that there are those who would buy a 1000HP Taycan just as there are those who buy cars designed for track use who have never driven on track (or intend to) or others who buy cars that offer performance that is well beyond their capability to exploit, either based on their skill level or the lack of a venue where they can do it safely. I've owned very high performance cars and I admit that it's fun to sometimes do a little bench racing with other car people. But realistically, a 9 second 1/4 mile car for the street is pointless and to actually use that performance on public roads is irresponsible. Even my lowly 4S can reach speeds close to 100mph with more than a couple of seconds of full throttle from freeway speeds. Where does one routinely and safely exercise a 1000HP EV or even a Model S Ludicrous at full throttle on the freeway? You may be an exceptionally skilled driver but, in general, putting 1000HP vehicles in the hands of people whose only credentials are that they can afford the price of admission is concerning.

This is just my subjective opinion. Once you've had kids and grandkids, your perspective on some things in the world tends to change. YMMV. Personally, I hope Porsche doesn't build a 1000HP Taycan, and that has nothing to do with being a Porsche fanboy.

I’m just not a fan of this argument and arguments of the type that you can’t use more HP or performance on the street in everyday use and that the base Taycan is more than enough HP for daily. Really, 200 hp is more than enough for a daily, why drive a 400+ hp car at all? A Toyota Camry is more than enough for daily driving, why drive a Porsche? A Nissan Maxima is more than nice enough for a daily, why drive a 7 series BMW? A base Mustang is plenty fast and can track, why buy a Lamborghini or Ferrari? I could go on (why have a car that can go over 80mph when there are no speed limits in most of the world that allow any greater…) but I think everyone gets it.
We buy Porsches bc we want something more! We want a FAR better driving experience than a Camry or Mustang. We want far more track capability and yes a far better looking and feeling car than a those as well. We want more, and that is perfectly ok to want a bit more. As for hp and speed, i think everyone knows Porsches are not drag cars, but really, they make some DAMN fast cars that devastate at the drag strip as well as the track. That is fine and why we can have different levels of the cars. I am all for having a 1,000 hp Taycan if Porsche would make it, I’m sure people would buy it who could afford it. Those that the base HP is perfectly fine, that’s ok too and they can get what level suits them.

Never close the door on more performance, whether that’s straight speed, braking power, weight or whatever. It’ll be good for someone and not for others. There’s always those that will abuse the power and performance, yes and we hope and pray they stay safe and don’t endanger others, but there are plenty that respect it and only use it when mostly appropriate on the track (or when that jerk in the Mustang at the light really needs to be put in their place ? jk). It’s all good folks!

 

[Mike in CA]

I’m just not a fan of this argument and arguments of the type that you can’t use more HP or performance on the street in everyday use and that the base Taycan is more than enough HP for daily. Really, 200 hp is more than enough for a daily, why drive a 400+ hp car at all? A Toyota Camry is more than enough for daily driving, why drive a Porsche? A Nissan Maxima is more than nice enough for a daily, why drive a 7 series BMW? A base Mustang is plenty fast and can track, why buy a Lamborghini or Ferrari? I could go on (why have a car that can go over 80mph when there are no speed limits in most of the world that allow any greater…) but I think everyone gets it.
We buy Porsches bc we want something more! We want a FAR better driving experience than a Camry or Mustang. We want far more track capability and yes a far better looking and feeling car than a those as well. We want more, and that is perfectly ok to want a bit more. As for hp and speed, i think everyone knows Porsches are not drag cars, but really, they make some DAMN fast cars that devastate at the drag strip as well as the track. That is fine and why we can have different levels of the cars. I am all for having a 1,000 hp Taycan if Porsche would make it, I’m sure people would buy it who could afford it. Those that the base HP is perfectly fine, that’s ok too and they can get what level suits them.

Never close the door on more performance, whether that’s straight speed, braking power, weight or whatever. It’ll be good for someone and not for others. There’s always those that will abuse the power and performance, yes and we hope and pray they stay safe and don’t endanger others, but there are plenty that respect it and only use it when mostly appropriate on the track (or when that jerk in the Mustang at the light really needs to be put in their place ? jk). It’s all good folks!

I get your point. But by your logic, why not have 2000HP street cars? 3000HP?

200HP in a 4000lb EV will get you around town but won't be much fun to drive for those of us that are performance minded. 500HP+ in a 5000lb EV like the Taycan provides a very satisfying experience. 1000HP? I can't think of a situation on public roads where that would be appropriate or necessary. I know that some want even more power and even glitzier cars...there are people who buy gold toilets, after all... but at some point, common sense suggests that a line be drawn at least as far as putting huge horsepower in the hands of buyers who are very likely unequipped to handle it. I'm just suggesting it be drawn it in a different place than you are. Perhaps fortunately, neither of us is going to be making that decision.

Anyway, the question that was posed in this thread wasn't whether you or I liked the idea of a 1000HP Taycan, but when will Porsche release one. I don't think they will anytime soon.

 

[SHM]

I would think limiting factors are:
1) Battery cooling,Taycan on nurburgring already can overheat after a lap.
The huge cells are not that easy to cool properly for much higher output.

2) Drivetrain.. Transmission means more stuff can break. Should redo motors with higher RPM and tri motor setup. This might mean a new platform is needed due to limited space.

Other than this I dont see any issues, might of course also need to upgrade other drivetrain components.

 

[Swede-ish]

Whenever someone says "not necessary" or "good enough" or "why would you need that", all I see is "I can't afford it, so why would you have it?" If you don't like performance, get the Camry or Focus, or take the bus.

 

[Mike in CA]

Oops, looks like someone struck a nerve.

 

[whitex]

Oops, looks like someone struck a nerve.

Perhaps, though @Swede-ish is not entirely wrong. There exist people out there who once they purchased something, resent it if a better/improved, or same but discounted product comes out not long after their purchase (Tesla is famous for that, you wouldn't believe the whining forum threads, even people picketing showrooms in person because Tesla lowered prices on a car they bought few months earlier). Then there is also a group who justified to themselves what a product trim is "good enough" but seek external validation for their decisions, hence they try to convince others. There are of course also objective people, who will just say "not something I would be interested in, I got what I wanted, but if there are people who'd buy it and Porsche wants to make it, they should", or "yes I want it, and I'm willing to pay for it!".

 

[rs38]

some real life facts in this interesting discussion.

this is a short extract of a logging drive session* with a Taycan Turbo with some full acceleration at 90 kph with 23°C battery temp and 50% SoC

it already shows 796A current draw with voltage dropping to 635V.

So the math is never correct to calc max amps with a fixed 800V value.

(*the windows tool will be published soon as a free to use tool for non-commercial enthusiasts)

 

[whitex]

So the math is never correct to calc max amps with a fixed 800V value.

Of course, the max amps time nominal voltage only gives you theoretical upper bound which is not practically reachable (due to internal cell resistances, wiring and other parasitic resistances in the system like connectors). In other words, if the max amps times nominal voltage doesn't come even close to 1000hp, the battery is guaranteed to never be able to deliver 1000hp.

As a side note, at 796A, it will make a difference whether or not you're measuring the cells voltage by adding up the individual voltages reported by the 33 CMCs (Cell Module Controllers), or if you measure it at the battery output, or at the motor input (will even be different in the front of back motor). Current on the other hand should add up, though keep in mind not all current goes to the motors (some goes to DC-DC converter, some to HVAC, etc) so current from the battery is not exactly equal current to the motors.

(*the windows tool will be published soon as a free to use tool for non-commercial enthusiasts)

How will this tool collect the measurements? OBDII scans? I'm curious.

 

[rs38]

As a side note, at 796A, it will make a difference whether or not you're measuring the cells voltage by adding up the individual voltages reported by the 33 CMCs (Cell Module Controllers), or if you measure it at the battery output

indeed there is a distinct "cell voltage sum" diagnostic value I'm logging. Did not realize they divert too much. Will have a look.

How will this tool collect the measurements? OBDII scans? I'm curious.

yes, UDS scanning through OBD2 port.

 

[Mike in CA]

Perhaps, though @Swede-ish is not entirely wrong. There exist people out there who once they purchased something, resent it if a better/improved, or same but discounted product comes out not long after their purchase (Tesla is famous for that, you wouldn't believe the whining forum threads, even people picketing showrooms in person because Tesla lowered prices on a car they bought few months earlier). Then there is also a group who justified to themselves what a product trim is "good enough" but seek external validation for their decisions, hence they try to convince others. There are of course also objective people, who will just say "not something I would be interested in, I got what I wanted, but if there are people who'd buy it and Porsche wants to make it, they should", or "yes I want it, and I'm willing to pay for it!".

I won't attempt to psychoanalyze the buying public; I'll leave that to the experts.

As previously stated, my answer to the question posed at the top of this thread is, not anytime soon. My thoughts generally on 1000 (or other ridiculous number) horsepower street cars has already been expressed and has nothing to do with price, the vehicle I purchased, resentment, or psychology. Enough said.

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