When will Porsche release a 1000HP Taycan?

[whitex]

The battery conversation is interesting and worthy of discussion. That said, I agree with many of the points already made about a 1000 HP Taycan. Not necessarily in this order:

1. Porsche builds "complete" cars; acceleration, braking, handling, build quality, etc. A 9 sec 1/4 mile Tesla is a gimmick, IMO, unless one plans to go drag racing and Porsche doesn't build gimmick cars.

2. Porsche has never concerned themselves with having the highest HP and won't build a 1000hp car just because Tesla (or Lucid) does.

3. As has been pointed out, Porsche won't build a car that's faster than the fastest 911 for the foreseeable future, if ever.

4. Finally, I have no interest in a 1000HP Taycan. What would be the point? I owned a 3 second flat 0-60 GT3 and that kind of performance is meaningless away from the track. My 4S feels almost as quick in most situations and I'm of an age now where fully exploiting that kind of performance on public roads seems risky and, dare I say it, stupid. Just speaking for myself.

Your arguments sounds a little like Tesla fanboys defending Elon for canceling Plaid+ (which IMO was total vaporware from the beginning, made up by Elon to beat Lucid on paper in terms of acceleration and range - made up for the media). When Tesla has the longest range EV's, the fanboys swore up and down that range is king, nothing else matters. Once Tesla was dethroned from the king of the range position, suddenly the same people are arguing "Nobody needs that much power or that much range".

Customers who buy Taycan Turbo S do care about the power, or else they'd be content getting the 4S and saving a ton of money. The 4S (or just 4 in the CT lineup) handles just as well, can be equipped with the same equipment for much less than a Turbo S. If Porsche built a 1000hp Taycan, I bet there would be interested customers. I also suspect there would be plenty of fans touting the Taycan as fastest production car, should it become one.

As for my personal preference, I find that I don't use max power from a stand-still in my daily driving, but higher end acceleration on highways I do floor my accelerator (it's a Model S with Ludicrous, not Plaid). When I test drove the Taycan 4S, I was totally satisfied with acceleration from the standstill , but when on the highway, it was noticeably less powerful than I am used to, even with the 2 gears. Hence 10 months after putting down first deposit I'm still waiting for Porsche to even give me an allocation for a Turbo CT. You mentioned in your post that Porsche builds "complete" cars. You probably should add "if they manage to build them". Oh wait, people with Taycans lacking the power steering column might disagree on that one too (especially now that Porsche "clarified" that when they said that they would retrofit them after delivery, they were just kidding). I guess we are left with "Porsche builds complete cars most of the time when they manage to build them".

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[whitex]

I'd still argue that just because there is an 800A fuse in the battery doesn't necessarily mean the battery's max safe output from a capability standpoint is 800A. As the fuse is meant to prevent internal battery short circuiting, it could be possible that they're designing the fuse to reflect the peak amperage that would be drawn by the motors + a buffer for the max amperage drawn by other HV-driven accessories, in order to detect the short as early as possible

Even if they picked 800A fuse as you say, but then they would also adjust specifications for the subcontractor who manufactures their battery. Over-specing cost money, and no car manufacturer wants to pay even a $1 more than they have to per car. If the battery spec is 800A, that means that both the design and manufacturing engineers are working with that spec, meaning if they can save money anywhere and still meet the spec, they will (and should).

You reminded me of a story from a while back, where I worked on a video transcoder. One engineer decided to thoroughly test some RAM chips we were using, and realized they can in fact be set to lower refresh rate than specified and everything worked. That left more bandwidth available for video processing. All was great, until a few months later we get a call from the factory that all boards are failing tests. A bunch of investigation showed that RAM was losing data. Turned out the manufacturer tweaked their process and the RAM chips still worked as per spec, but no longer could be under-refreshed. We had to drop one of the higher supported resolutions from the transcoder specs because there was no drop-in, lower refresh rate replacement. Technically some +2 sigma of the yield could work, but manufacturer refused to do that binning - not big enough orders from us to make it worth for them to test and bin all the chips.

 

[Jhenson29]

I thought there was 2 batteries, with RWD getting the smaller by default, having the option to get the performance battery.

Yes, hence my parenthetical “optionally”. The 4CT is the lowest power car with the larger battery standard.

But it’s irrelevant to my point which is that batteries have metrics other than power that dictate their size.

You'd think performance battery in a RWD would be the same as Turbo S,

This is Porsche. Baseline is “performance”. ?

The smaller battery is the performance battery and then it goes up to the performance plus.

Kind of like 911 seats. Start with “sport” seats. Then go up to “Sport +”

 

[logic]

Porsche don't make drag cars. They make sports cars that go round bends and and drive sublimely. 0-60 straight line speed times are not what a Porsche is about. The fact that the power plant of the Taycan is electric and not say a flat 6 is almost irrelevant to its main purpose of being a Porsche. Its just a new evolution of the brand. Which will never be a drag car.

Frankly a Porsche Taycan is much much more than a straight 0-100Km speed test. You buy a Porsche for the best sport road handling, steering an excellent drive precision, best possible balance of the suspension, material quality and assembly assembling, customization and service, fastest recharge etc. That is what a Porsche is all about and as I said, it goes way beyond being the fastest in a straight line.

The biggest advancement Porsche could make (true to the brand) is making a lighter car. The car still feels humongously heavy in terms of handling feel compared to a sports car. It doesn't need 1000HP if it could shed 25% - 50% of its weight somehow.

 

[WuffvonTrips]

The biggest advancement Porsche could make (true to the brand) is making a lighter car. The car still feels humongously heavy in terms of handling feel compared to a sports car. It doesn't need 1000HP if it could shed 25% - 50% of its weight somehow.

The greatest potential for that is battery tech- though such improvement obviously won't be exclusive to Porsche.

 

[npx]

You all are also forgetting that they could just as easily gain a bunch of launch torque from making the gearing on the transmission shorter. You can't increase horsepower via gear ratios but you can give torque multiplication.

At this point, 2nd gen Taycan's powertrain is probably solidified and being tested now. My money is on a move to a true triple motor setup with next generation battery being either plan of record, or planned for the highest trim or as a mid cycle refresh.

 

[Mike in CA]

Your arguments sounds a little like Tesla fanboys defending Elon for canceling Plaid+ (which IMO was total vaporware from the beginning, made up by Elon to beat Lucid on paper in terms of acceleration and range - made up for the media). When Tesla has the longest range EV's, the fanboys swore up and down that range is king, nothing else matters. Once Tesla was dethroned from the king of the range position, suddenly the same people are arguing "Nobody needs that much power or that much range".

Customers who buy Taycan Turbo S do care about the power, or else they'd be content getting the 4S and saving a ton of money. The 4S (or just 4 in the CT lineup) handles just as well, can be equipped with the same equipment for much less than a Turbo S. If Porsche built a 1000hp Taycan, I bet there would be interested customers. I also suspect there would be plenty of fans touting the Taycan as fastest production car, should it become one.

As for my personal preference, I find that I don't use max power from a stand-still in my daily driving, but higher end acceleration on highways I do floor my accelerator (it's a Model S with Ludicrous, not Plaid). When I test drove the Taycan 4S, I was totally satisfied with acceleration from the standstill , but when on the highway, it was noticeably less powerful than I am used to, even with the 2 gears. Hence 10 months after putting down first deposit I'm still waiting for Porsche to even give me an allocation for a Turbo CT. You mentioned in your post that Porsche builds "complete" cars. You probably should add "if they manage to build them". Oh wait, people with Taycans lacking the power steering column might disagree on that one too (especially now that Porsche "clarified" that when they said that they would retrofit them after delivery, they were just kidding). I guess we are left with "Porsche builds complete cars most of the time when they manage to build them".

I'm making neither an "argument" nor excuses for Porsche. What I'm saying is that they have never cared about making cars with the highest horsepower and I don't believe they will be drawn into a race to do that now. A simple fact upon which I've based an opinion.

BTW, by "complete" I mean balanced, well-rounded and not deficient in any particular area of performance or build quality. As an aside, the problems Porsche (and every other car maker) are having building "complete" cars, by your narrow definition, relate to supply chain issues, not a lack of capability. At least Porsche doesn't regularly engage in the kind of misleading hype that Tesla often employs. See promises regarding the still to be delivered Cybertruck, the $50K deposits they took on the vaporware Roadster, and their bogus claims regarding FSD which never has provided full self-driving capability, to name just a few examples.

I've no doubt that there are those who would buy a 1000HP Taycan just as there are those who buy cars designed for track use who have never driven on track (or intend to) or others who buy cars that offer performance that is well beyond their capability to exploit, either based on their skill level or the lack of a venue where they can do it safely. I've owned very high performance cars and I admit that it's fun to sometimes do a little bench racing with other car people. But realistically, a 9 second 1/4 mile car for the street is pointless and to actually use that performance on public roads is irresponsible. Even my lowly 4S can reach speeds close to 100mph with more than a couple of seconds of full throttle from freeway speeds. Where does one routinely and safely exercise a 1000HP EV or even a Model S Ludicrous at full throttle on the freeway? You may be an exceptionally skilled driver but, in general, putting 1000HP vehicles in the hands of people whose only credentials are that they can afford the price of admission is concerning.

This is just my subjective opinion. Once you've had kids and grandkids, your perspective on some things in the world tends to change. YMMV. Personally, I hope Porsche doesn't build a 1000HP Taycan, and that has nothing to do with being a Porsche fanboy.

 

[whitex]

I'm making neither an "argument" nor excuses for Porsche. What I'm saying is that they have never cared about making cars with the highest horsepower and I don't believe they will be drawn into a race to do that now. A simple fact upon which I've based an opinion.

I think they always cared to some degree, how else do you explain developing and marketing Launch Control feature? That feature is useless for anything other than straight line acceleration from standstill, and a hefty price premium is paid for Turbo S which marketing only differentiates from the Turbo in the Launch Control power. Whether or not they will want to keep up with the competition in terms of straight line acceleration will depend on the market demand, if people start choosing other cars over Porsche and their marketing determines it's because of this, they will have to address it.

BTW, by "complete" I mean balanced, well-rounded and not deficient in any particular area of performance or build quality. As an aside, the problems Porsche (and every other car maker) are having building "complete" cars, by your narrow definition, relate to supply chain issues, not a lack of capability. At least Porsche doesn't regularly engage in the kind of misleading hype that Tesla often employs. See promises regarding the still to be delivered Cybertruck, the $50K deposits they took on the vaporware Roadster, and their bogus claims regarding FSD which never has provided full self-driving capability, to name just a few examples.

I agree with you on the Tesla vaporware sales, though I would not put Cybertruck or Roadster in the same bucket as FSD and other over-promises, since the deposits are refundable, so no different than me putting deposits down on Porsche 10 months ago and still not have even an allocation (despite being told by one dealership to expect to get one Oct/Nov last year). I am trying to get away from Tesla after experiencing their vaporware and post Model 3 service practices. That said, Porsche is starting to show its own issues, like the power steering column which they told people they would retrofit only to change their mind later. As cars get more complex other issues are creeping up, like the Taycan car alarm issue, or the single phase charging with 22KW charger in EU, both have been going on for months. I sure hope those issues with Porsche are temporary, still wanting to buy one, but honestly, if Tesla would offer an standard, stalked steering wheel on the Plaid I would probably just get that purely because I could actually get it delivered vs. waiting in line for an allocation for months or years (hey, there is a good chance Tesla will deliver Cybertrucks before Porsche can deliver me a Taycan).

But realistically, a 9 second 1/4 mile car for the street is pointless and to actually use that performance on public roads is irresponsible. Even my lowly 4S can reach speeds close to 100mph with more than a couple of seconds of full throttle from freeway speeds. Where does one routinely and safely exercise a 1000HP EV or even a Model S Ludicrous at full throttle on the freeway?

I use the Ludicrous on the highways a lot. It helps with merges and lane changes. I find if I want if you accelerate slowly, often the car next to you accelerates with you trying to not let you in (so then you have to brake to get in behind them, which creates a potentially dangerous situation or a backlog of cars). If you accelerate fast, the other cars don't even try, allowing you to merge freely. Full throttle at 40+mph is nowhere near as jolting as fill throttle from standstill (which I almost never do).

This is just my subjective opinion. Once you've had kids and grandkids, your perspective on some things in the world tends to change. YMMV. Personally, I hope Porsche doesn't build a 1000HP Taycan, and that has nothing to do with being a Porsche fanboy.

I agree on perspective based on life experience. My 2nd car was a used Toyota MR2 which I bought when I was 17. I only drove it for 10 months, because the insurance payment was more than my car payment and I didn't want to work just to sustain my car, but I gotta tell you, it was the most fun I ever had with a car. I remember thinking that when at 27 I bought my brand new custom order 911C4. Don't get me wrong, I had a blast with that 911, and with other cars later in life, but somehow I still remember the MR2 as the most fun. I guess some things are just more more enjoyable if experienced earlier in life.

For all the cars I've owned , the ones which stand out in my mind were MR2, 911, and Model S. The other cars were fun but just not as memorable to me. I'm hoping the Taycan will be my next memorable car, maybe in a way it will be an amalgamation of the best things I liked about he 911 and Model S? I wouldn't mind if the Taycan came out with a 1000hp version (though not if only in Launch Control mode, as I have no interest in drag racing, never use Launch Mode on my cars).

 

[Archimedes]

Never in the field of Internet keyboard warriordom has so much drivel been posted by someone with so little (zero) actual experience with the car being debated.

 

[charliemathilde]

I can’t believe anyone hasn’t already said I’d rather they just make it weigh 1000# less.

1000hp is pretty pointless if you’re traction limited. 770hp in a car that weighs as much as a Model 3 would be much much faster

 

[Mike in CA]

I think they always cared to some degree, how else do you explain developing and marketing Launch Control feature? That feature is useless for anything other than straight line acceleration from standstill, and a hefty price premium is paid for Turbo S which marketing only differentiates from the Turbo in the Launch Control power. Whether or not they will want to keep up with the competition in terms of straight line acceleration will depend on the market demand, if people start choosing other cars over Porsche and their marketing determines it's because of this, they will have to address it.

I use the Ludicrous on the highways a lot. It helps with merges and lane changes. I find if I want if you accelerate slowly, often the car next to you accelerates with you trying to not let you in (so then you have to brake to get in behind them, which creates a potentially dangerous situation or a backlog of cars). If you accelerate fast, the other cars don't even try, allowing you to merge freely. Full throttle at 40+mph is nowhere near as jolting as fill throttle from standstill (which I almost never do).....

My apologies for not reproducing and responding to everything in your post...a lot of this stuff is subjective anyway. But just to clarify, I never said Porsche wasn't interested in straight line performance. What I said was that they weren't interested in building cars with the highest horsepower. My belief is that their primary goal is building cars with balanced, all-around performance and 1000HP isn't necessary to achieve that goal.

As for getting on the freeway, I agree that too many people don't know how to merge properly and that can be frustrating and dangerous. That said, unless you're trying to merge out of the pit lane in an F1 race the performance of a 4S, or any Taycan for that matter, will get the job done with power to spare. The same with lane changes. I sometimes see people darting from lane to lane and their behavior looks juvenile and is unsafe. I really don't think one needs 1000HP or whatever mode to do that effectively either.

 

[whitex]

My apologies for not reproducing and responding to everything in your post...a lot of this stuff is subjective anyway. But just to clarify, I never said Porsche wasn't interested in straight line performance. What I said was that they weren't interested in building cars with the highest horsepower. My belief is that their primary goal is building cars with balanced, all-around performance and 1000HP isn't necessary to achieve that goal.

If they care about straight line acceleration, and they care about being the best, then they will want to build cars with more power to weight ratio. I agree with you that they will probably not want to make a one trick pony, a drag racer which takes corners like the RMS Queen Mary, but I don't think they will stop wanting to make Porsches faster, i.e. increase the power to weight ratio, which can only be achieved by either making the car lighter or more powerful.

 

[whitex]

You all are also forgetting that they could just as easily gain a bunch of launch torque from making the gearing on the transmission shorter. You can't increase horsepower via gear ratios but you can give torque multiplication.

I'm thinking at this point, the Turbo S, just like S Plaid and Lucid air, is just traction limited. More launch torque is not usable without some specialized drag racing only tires.

 

[Skilly]

For stopping part:
https://shop.tesla.com/product/model-s-plaid-carbon-ceramic-brake-kit

uh huh....so, great tagline:

Fastest car ever! Disclaimer: If you wanna stop that will be an additional $20K when we have that available.

Its very Elon Musk in its messaging...

 

[whitex]

uh huh....so, great tagline:

Fastest car ever! Disclaimer: If you wanna stop that will be an additional $20K when we have that available.

Its very Elon Musk in its messaging...

This is Elon for you, who was once quoted as saying "Ship it now, fix it later via OTA, pay for hardware fix only if we have to". While this doesn't sounds super enticing as a customer (I'm tired of it, 4 cars and 9 years later), customers still flock to the cars, so it seems to work for him. Tesla is growing like gangbusters, building new factories, producing and selling more and more cars for which they have demand, all despite COVID, chip shortage, Ukraine war, etc. Tesla is the only large car manufacturer which continues to ship more cars every year, everyone else shrunk their production in recent years (I'm sure they had good excuses, but keep in mind that Tesla faces the same world issues). Porsche on the other hand has not been able to get me an allocation in 10 months, even though I've been #1 on the waiting list at some dealerships. I know of 1 allocation that came down to a dealership where I'm waiting but that was where I was #4, so now I'm #3 - at this rate I should get my allocation in 2025. I'm starting to wonder whether the reported high demand to Taycans is partially inflated by Porsche's inability to deliver cars, therefore building up a longer line of waiting customers.

Btw, in this instance I could play devil's advocate - consumer choice. Not every consumer will track their car, and for their occasional 1000hp launch or highway acceleration the regular brakes (combined with regen) are sufficient. For the vast majority of my Model S driving I use only regen braking, even though I unleash the ludicrous power almost every time I get on the highway. As a teenager I drove a 2 seater sports car, with my school books on the front passenger seats, so I adjusted my driving style to accelerating fast but never braking hard (or my books would be all over the windshield). If Porsche sold a Turbo S with steel brakes as standard, I bet some people would be just fine and would love to save the money.

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