"Why America's EV chargers keep breaking" - Article

[Tooney]

Imagine living in a world where the gas station has trouble providing gasoline.

Every few times a driver fills up, something goes haywire — the gas doesn’t flow, or it flows fast for a while and then slows to a trickle. Other times, the credit card payment is mysteriously rejected or the screen is blank.
If the consumer wants a helping hand, too bad. In this world, the gas station has no human, and the only option is a 1-800 number. The gas pumps are alone in the middle of a big parking lot.

Swap the word “gasoline” for “electricity,” and this is a realistic description of what happens every day at electric-vehicle charging stations across the United States. The high-tech, high-speed highway fueling system that America is building to power its EVs and replace the gas station is riddled with glitches that are proving difficult to stamp out.

One reason today’s charging stations don’t work very well is their strange evolution as a consumer product.

Like EVs themselves, charging stations first arrived on the roads not because customers sought them out, but because regulators required them.

In the early days, none of these decisions much mattered. Early EV buyers were true believers who shrugged off the inconvenience of a dark parking lot or a frustrating charging session.
https://www.politico.com/news/2023/04/12/america-ev-chargers-keep-breaking-heres-why-00089181

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[daveo4EV]

Imagine living in a world where the gas station has trouble providing gasoline.

Every few times a driver fills up, something goes haywire — the gas doesn’t flow, or it flows fast for a while and then slows to a trickle. Other times, the credit card payment is mysteriously rejected or the screen is blank.
If the consumer wants a helping hand, too bad. In this world, the gas station has no human, and the only option is a 1-800 number. The gas pumps are alone in the middle of a big parking lot.

Swap the word “gasoline” for “electricity,” and this is a realistic description of what happens every day at electric-vehicle charging stations across the United States. The high-tech, high-speed highway fueling system that America is building to power its EVs and replace the gas station is riddled with glitches that are proving difficult to stamp out.

One reason today’s charging stations don’t work very well is their strange evolution as a consumer product.

Like EVs themselves, charging stations first arrived on the roads not because customers sought them out, but because regulators required them.

In the early days, none of these decisions much mattered. Early EV buyers were true believers who shrugged off the inconvenience of a dark parking lot or a frustrating charging session.
https://www.politico.com/news/2023/04/12/america-ev-chargers-keep-breaking-heres-why-00089181

published April, 2023 - fast forward to June…

“I see this is a problem for the next five years,” said Ferro, the EV charging expert. “Either Tesla will take over the entire charging network of the U.S., or everyone else will get their act together, or a little bit of both.”

the fact that this "industry" guy though it could/should take 5 years _IS_ the core problem with the current CCS infrastructure.

Tesla is taking over - 5 years is too long…

 

[tigerbalm]

the fact that this "industry" guy though it could/should take 5 years _IS_ the core problem with the current CCS infrastructure.

Tesla is taking over - 5 years is too long…

Well if normal market forces are at play – one would expect that the likes of EA will have to respond – especially if adaptors become available to make mass utilisation of Tesla charging network viable.

Caveat: With so much federal funding available – and the legal/court action nature to the launch of the EA network – I'm not sure how "free market" the non-Tesla charging network actually is.

I'm still grateful – even if CCS isn't the "nicest of physical plugs" – that we in Europe are not going to endure a "format" war. For the US market, I hope this doesn't result in a temporary "chilling effect" – where consumers are left (more) confused and adopt a wait-and-see.

 

[daveo4EV]

For the US market, I hope this doesn't result in a temporary "chilling effect" – where consumers are left (more) confused and adopt a wait-and-see.

too late - it already has - the "flaws" in the CCS network are well known to people and it's already a "reason" to delay an eV purchase - I know this first hand from many many friends, family and acquaintances…

you get one change to make a first impression - and the 1st impression made by this screw up is going to set the North American EV transition back by years, maybe even an entire decade…the level of this screw up will be investigated for decades about how not to do something.

 

[daveo4EV]

one would expect that the likes of EA will have to respond – especially if adaptors become available to make mass utilisation of Tesla charging network viable.

the strange thing here is Elon could in 2 days wipe out EVERY CCS other competitor - by simply tweeting…everything is "ready", exists, and 100% functional today.

As of Aug 4th, 2023 the entire North American Tesla Supercharger network will open to all CCS vehicles. See Tesla.com for details and adapter sales.

it would immediately wipe out all other EV charging vendors

but he's not going to do that - but he could and the reasons to do that, and the reason not to do that complex and interesting gaming theory.

 

[tigerbalm]

but he's not going to do that - but he could and the reasons to do that, and the reason not to do that complex and interesting gaming theory.

Well he'd probably prefer to stay out of being seen as a monopoly!

 

[tigerbalm]

What's curious to me is that the Tesla network in Europe has the same reliable, integrated and comprehensive reputation as its equivalent in the US – yet is entirely CCS based by EU regulations. If there was something inherently flawed about the CCS standard – you'd expect to see it in Europe – but you don't.

So it's more likely to be the "effort" being put in to the non-Tesla charging networks than the technical standard itself.

Hence why I'm happy we have restrictions in Europe on what standards you can roll out. Heck, here in Ireland – due to historical reasons – we're trying to get our state charging company to stop supporting CHAdeMO! We've been through our format war – had our loser – and now wish it would go away!

 

[whitex]

the strange thing here is Elon could in 2 days wipe out EVERY CCS other competitor - by simply tweeting…everything is "ready", exists, and 100% functional today.



it would immediately wipe out all other EV charging vendors

but he's not going to do that - but he could and the reasons to do that, and the reason not to do that complex and interesting gaming theory.

Do you mean lie about the current state of things on twitter or actually overhaul the entire SC network with magic dock? If the latter, people will notice the progress over months or years. But even if, it will not wipe out the competition. Why do you think Tesla sells CCS adapters to Tesla owners? By your logic, anyone with access to Tesla SC, would never use CCS, right? And yet, there are plenty of Teslas using CCS today. I have personally witnessed Teslas charging at EA even when a Tesla SC was across the street, with plenty of open stalls.

 

[daveo4EV]

Do you mean lie about the current state of things on twitter or actually overhaul the entire SC network with magic dock? If the latter, people will notice the progress over months or years. But even if, it will not wipe out the competition. Why do you think Tesla sells CCS adapters to Tesla owners? By your logic, anyone with access to Tesla SC, would never use CCS, right? And yet, there are plenty of Teslas using CCS today. I have personally witnessed Teslas charging at EA even when a Tesla SC was across the street, with plenty of open stalls.

no I mean he could:

1. open the entire network in a matter of weeks
2 sell the existing CCS to supercharger adapter directly on their site (bring your own adapter)
3. open up the Tesla app to allow anyone to start a charging session

all the pieces are in place - he does not need to retrofit MagicDock to stations if he were to allow individuals to simply purchase the already engineered and functional adapter.

after that happens let market forces rule the day…

 

[whitex]

no I mean he could:

1. open the entire network in a matter of weeks
2 sell the existing CCS to supercharger adapter directly on their site (bring your own adapter)
3. open up the Tesla app to allow anyone to start a charging session

all the pieces are in place - he does not need to retrofit MagicDock to stations if he were to allow individuals to simply purchase the already engineered and functional adapter.

after that happens let market forces rule the day…

I think you might be oversimplifying potential engineering challenges to the above approach. Today, the supercharger "client" is a Tesla, which has its own processing power, fairly high end hardware security features to maintain and use security keys, and most importantly an almost 24/7 connection to the internet, including when not charging (e.g. if the internet is not available at the supercharger, the car will communicate the transaction once the car drives off into a better LTE coverage area). So if we were to mimic that, your suggested adapter would be expensive, contain its own battery, its own GPS, and its own cellular modem with required monthly subscription. Next, it would require an way to deal with stolen adapters, so that if someone steals yours, they don't get to indefinitely charge their car with it. All of this is not impossible, just impractical. When someone like Ford does it, most of the aforementioned adapter is in the car, which already has a computer, security hardware, gps, cellular modem and connection, so the adapter itself is mostly passive. I suspect this is why we are seeing the announcements by Ford and GM, but no general purpose adapter.

 

[daveo4EV]

teh CCS adapter exists today inside the MagicDock and it works

you're over complicating it - I've talked to tesla guys about this - there is nothing that needs to change at super chargers to decouple the magicdock from the charging station…

it's ready to go

all that needs to happen is:

1. sell the magicdock adapter separately (it's a passive adapter)
2. update the server software for superchargers to allow activation via the app
3. and tell people they can do this.

Tesla could sell the adapter today for simllar cost to the existing CCS adapter for Teslas ($175)

they are choosing not to do this but it's 100% fesiable and not complicated - it lacks a business case - there are no techinical issues

 

[daveo4EV]

I think you might be oversimplifying potential engineering challenges to the above approach. Today, the supercharger "client" is a Tesla, which has its own processing power, fairly high end hardware security features to maintain and use security keys, and most importantly an almost 24/7 connection to the internet, including when not charging (e.g. if the internet is not available at the supercharger, the car will communicate the transaction once the car drives off into a better LTE coverage area). So if we were to mimic that, your suggested adapter would be expensive, contain its own battery, its own GPS, and its own cellular modem with required monthly subscription. Next, it would require an way to deal with stolen adapters, so that if someone steals yours, they don't get to indefinitely charge their car with it. All of this is not impossible, just impractical. When someone like Ford does it, most of the aforementioned adapter is in the car, which already has a computer, security hardware, gps, cellular modem and connection, so the adapter itself is mostly passive. I suspect this is why we are seeing the announcements by Ford and GM, but no general purpose adapter.

the adatper is passive - the secuirty for activating a session would be "app based" in the Tesla app - there would be no plug and charge support - app based activation onlly.

1. pull up to a supercharger
2. take out your personal CCS adapter that you purchased from the Tesla site for $225
3. plug the passive adapter onto the end of the tesla NACS cable
4. plug adapter into your CCS vehicle
4. use the Tesla app and an account w/Tesla to activate the session by choosing the stall number...

done.

same it works today w/MagicDock - but instead of the adapter being "locked" to the stall - it's a BYOA affair…

I've confirmed with former tesla employee's that there are no real changes to supercharger sites required for a BYOA - the firmware is ready for for all supercharger - and basically is an update to superchargers to not assume plug&charge is the only way to activate a session…it's a software only change and mostly contained in the session handshake/startup process when plugged into a vehicle...this approach will NEVER support plug&charge - but does function with app based activation which is already functional and deployed for magicdock enabled sites…

nothing really needs to be done here - which again is why GM/Ford have confidence in move.

everything is ready - this is how/why Ford/GM are plannign to provide adapters for their existing fleet CCS vehicles…you are deeply overthinking this.

all the elements of this approach are publicly visible, functional today, and already deployed and demonstrable at the existing MagicDock sites. The only element missing is the ability to purchase/aquire the adapter…

NOTE: some people with special accounts w/Tesla and "decoupled" MagicDock adapters can already "roam" to any supercharger site and charge - they've been testing it for months - so yeah - not a lot to do here other than decide to do it.

 

[whitex]

teh CCS adapter exists today inside the MagicDock and it works

you're over complicating it - I've talked to tesla guys about this - there is nothing that needs to change at super chargers to decouple the magicdock from the charging station…

it's ready to go

all that needs to happen is:

1. sell the magicdock adapter separately (it's a passive adapter)
2. update the server software for superchargers to allow activation via the app
3. and tell people they can do this.

Tesla could sell the adapter today for simllar cost to the existing CCS adapter for Teslas ($175)

they are choosing not to do this but it's 100% fesiable and not complicated - it lacks a business case - there are no techinical issues

I used to hack Teslas. I don’t know Tesla latest design details, but circa 2015 superchargers were fairly “dumb” and internet connection was not required for functionality. The provisioning for supercharging was all on the car side (e.g. if you bought a Tesla without supercharging access, to enable it you just had to provision the car, not some network deployment). IMO this helped Tesla supercharger reliability to make it that simple (charger just authenticates the car, the car does the billing/accounting, potentially later when network connectivity is restored).

Maybe Tesla changed their supercharger architecture and upgraded all superchargers from the past to the network connected model (which is required if the phone app has to talk to the supercharger as you suggest), I don’t have this information but doubt it, as that would make the design more complex and less reliable. Tesla does think of things like this and likes to keep things simple, for example the single button on NACS and locking mechanism only on the car.

So for now, I think we’ll just have to agree to disagree.

 

[tchavei]

What's curious to me is that the Tesla network in Europe has the same reliable, integrated and comprehensive reputation as its equivalent in the US – yet is entirely CCS based by EU regulations. If there was something inherently flawed about the CCS standard – you'd expect to see it in Europe – but you don't.

So it's more likely to be the "effort" being put in to the non-Tesla charging networks than the technical standard itself.

Hence why I'm happy we have restrictions in Europe on what standards you can roll out. Heck, here in Ireland – due to historical reasons – we're trying to get our state charging company to stop supporting CHAdeMO! We've been through our format war – had our loser – and now wish it would go away!

There are some subtle differences.

CCS1 (American) is different from CCS2 (European). The protocol is the same but CCS2 plugs don't have active locking mechanisms. It's the receiver (car) and sender (charging station) that lock the cable (depending if charger has the cable or if provided by user)

Regarding tesla opening up in Europe... They have to because here alternative networks are expanding at blazing rates and most teslas will use those networks if they're cheaper and as reliable as their own network. Only way of staying in business is to keep prices on par and letting other cars charge too. I've seen teslas to queue up on highway chargers because they're more convenient then exiting the highway and driving x km/mil
To a tesla stall (that's more expensive).

Regarding Portugal, I don't think Tesla will open in Portugal anytime soon. Not that they don't want to but Portugal was the only EU country who took the European Directive by the letter and implemented it nationwide ipsus verbis: "Any public charger has to be accessible by any client using any energy provider of his choice" making the Tesla network technically 'illegal' overnight. Until Tesla and the government sit down and find a solution, a lot of water will pass under the bridge. I can't even imagine what kind of solution can be found within the law.

 

[whitex]

There are some subtle differences.

CCS1 (American) is different from CCS2 (European). The protocol is the same but CCS2 plugs don't have active locking mechanisms. It's the receiver (car) and sender (charging station) that lock the cable (depending if charger has the cable or if provided by user)

Regarding tesla opening up in Europe... They have to because here alternative networks are expanding at blazing rates and most teslas will use those networks if they're cheaper and as reliable as their own network. Only way of staying in business is to keep prices on par and letting other cars charge too. I've seen teslas to queue up on highway chargers because they're more convenient then exiting the highway and driving x km/mil
To a tesla stall (that's more expensive).

Regarding Portugal, I don't think Tesla will open in Portugal anytime soon. Not that they don't want to but Portugal was the only EU country who took the European Directive by the letter and implemented it nationwide ipsus verbis: "Any public charger has to be accessible by any client using any energy provider of his choice" making the Tesla network technically 'illegal' overnight. Until Tesla and the government sit down and find a solution, a lot of water will pass under the bridge. I can't even imagine what kind of solution can be found within the law.

CCS2 is made by the same company as the Tesla connector. It's something in between the two (and it has 3 phases). It still has separate DC pins, which is slightly easier for car charger design (though still more wiring), but makes the connector so much more bulky.

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