break in, run in, gentle early miles/Kms?

[WasserGKuehlt]

Yes it does, please see below. This is what I am going through and following as we want the cars to last a long time. Also, there is always a new tire break in period, typically new tires can take around 200-500 miles to fully break in until they offer optimal performance

Wanted to ++ on this. I picked up my car with only a few miles on board, and immediately set on a long trip home. The brakes felt wooden but manageable; tires, on the other hand, gave me a bit of a jolt a few hundred miles later during a descent from a mountain pass; full sun, dry road - except for the snowmelt water crossing the highway approaching a turn, when the car just slid instead of turning/braking. It's a heavy car, and its weight masks well a low friction coefficient so it may be startling when traction does break.

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[whitex]

Hmm, maybe I should try this "launch control" thing. My research on it has been basically this:

(sorry, just poking fun, not necessarilyreally emitting judgments)

Yea, then you probably saw the video mocking 911's LC


I get why you might want launch control in an ICE car. Even in an EV there can be some benefit - pre-energize the motor coils and reduce the 0 to 100% throttle my a few ms - it will help drag racing by a fraction of a second. But why on earth lock out a bunch of horsepower behind LC only?!? It's either cluelessness about EV's drivetrain or really wanting people not to use it except when comparing specs on paper and in drag races, due to potential warranty issues.

 

[Winterfell]

I read on another thread some talk about breaking in the car from new. Avoiding launch, etc. My GTS ST arrives in 4 weeks, need some advice as my son will be ngging me to launch at every opportunity. Does the user manual mention this?

The majority have given you the right direction. As an EV you have less moving parts compared to an ICE. However, the Taycan has a gearbox which would certainly appreciate a soft touch in the beginning as this has moving parts. It certainly wont harm. Not as much as an ICE. Of course one should not forget the tires and brakes as well.

Very often cars are compared in a drag race, however, some cars are made for the track, such as the Taycan. Porsche made it with the track in mind, which where the gearbox comes in handy, to protect the battery from overheating. This is where Tesla has its short comings, to the credit, it was made for the road. Have driven the Model 3 and Y myself, handling is simply terrible, full stop, even as a daily driver. The VW Golf handles even better.

The drag race itself is not the ultimate measure, it really depends on the use case. Porsche is one of the great EV for twisty roads, which is why I am so compelled about it. And as soon as I have it in my possession, I will break it in for the first 1k miles. At least O don’t have to look at the RPM as the e-motor can take 16k RPM ?

 

[Winterfell]

Yea, then you probably saw the video mocking 911's LC


I get why you might want launch control in an ICE car. Even in an EV there can be some benefit - pre-energize the motor coils and reduce the 0 to 100% throttle my a few ms - it will help drag racing by a fraction of a second. But why on earth lock out a bunch of horsepower behind LC only?!? It's either cluelessness about EV's drivetrain or really wanting people not to use it except when comparing specs on paper and in drag races due to potential warranty issues.

For the same reason you habe ludicrous mode in Tesla I guess?

 

[whitex]

Wanted to ++ on this. I picked up my car with only a few miles on board, and immediately set on a long trip home. The brakes felt wooden but manageable; tires, on the other hand, gave me a bit of a jolt a few hundred miles later during a descent from a mountain pass; full sun, dry road - except for the snowmelt water crossing the highway approaching a turn, when the car just slid instead of turning/braking. It's a heavy car, and its weight masks well a low friction coefficient so it may be startling when traction does break.

When I picked up my car, I expected to have to go through the break-in period, even that the recuperation will take a few hundred miles to kick in. To my surprise recuperation worked when I left the showroom, and I never noticed any change in how they feel after that. Full disclosure, I have no problem with the way the brakes feel, and yes on occasion I've experienced slightly different feel when regen is briefly disabled (ABS or maybe other reason) but I'm used to driving EV's so it doesn't freak me out having to press the brake a little harder than usual. I also remembered having a conversation with a tech at a local dealer, he was explaining to me how part of their Taycan PDI includes a few 0-60 launches followed by full braking to 0. He was talking about how violent that is and how they cannot PDI Taycans when the parking lot where they do it is too full. Maybe the dealer where I picked it up does that too, and that enables the recuperation quickly?

As for braking traction, that can definitely be unnerving when it happens unexpectantly. Part of my fly-and-drive drive home was in the snow - I even spent some time slipping and sliding on snow in parking lots and some side roads the middle of the night to get a good feel of the car and its capabilities (yes, I am the crazy guy you might find doing donuts in a parking lot at 3am when it snows in the PNW, since we don't get snow that often). And yet, with all that, when I switched from winter tires to all-seasons for the spring, the car did surprise me by understeering at one point, which wasn't dangerous as I leave good margin for error in street driving, but it wasn't pleasant - I did not expect all-season tires to be worse on wet than winters, but few controlled slides later convinced me they are (unless, now that you mention it, maybe it was the fact that all-seasons were brand new, maybe required break-in period? hmmm... next time it rains, maybe I should find a quiet parking lot to see if the all-seasons got better).

 

[whitex]

For the same reason you habe ludicrous mode in Tesla I guess?

I had ludicrous enabled in my Model S 100% of the time. There is no reason not to, unless you prefer a milder throttle mapping (there is even a "Chill Mode" which makes it even milder). It is separate from launch control which I only used maybe twice, once when I got the car to see how it works, and once before my warranty expired to make sure it still works.

 

[whitex]

Porsche made it with the track in mind, which where the gearbox comes in handy, to protect the battery from overheating.

How exactly is the gearbox protecting the battery from overheating?

 

[Winterfell]

I had ludicrous enabled in my Model S 100% of the time. There is no reason not to, unless you prefer a milder throttle mapping (there is even a "Chill Mode" which makes it even milder). It is separate from launch control which I only used maybe twice, once when I got the car to see how it works, and once before my warranty expired to make sure it still works.

Exactly, in both cases they needed to be selected to get kore performance. ?

In the Taycan it is either Sport Mode or Sport Plus (If you have the chrono package) to access the launch control feature.

 

[whitex]

Exactly, in both cases they needed to be selected to get kore performance. ?

In the Taycan it is either Sport Mode or Sport Plus (If you have the chrono package) to access the launch control feature.

Not at all, I selected it once, never had to select it ever again for years - available any time under your right foot.

Taycan doesn't even remember the drive mode between drives, and engaging LC requires the car to be stopped, in a right mode, and a sequence of pedal presses. No way to engage it when already rolling, or when you want to pass someone on a highway - neither is a problem in a Tesla or other EV's.

 

[daveo4EV]

Porsche made it with the track in mind, which where the gearbox comes in handy, to protect the battery from overheating.

then they did a piss poor job - as the Taycan can't run as long as a Model 3 Performance in track mode on track - although it clearly handles/brakes better - but saying the Taycan is a "track car" is laughable…

it can't even stay out long enough to complete a 20 minute sprint race…and I also am not sure how a gear box "protects" the battery - if anything it would be the EV motors as you can run them at lower RPMs with a shift - but the battery discharge rates are static as is the amount of power being pumped back into the battery under heavy regen braking…

and if it was their goal - well it didn't work - battery overheated in about 12 minutes of full pace track driving…

https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/t...d-on-driving-lap-data-impressions-added.2923/

 

[Winterfell]

How exactly is the gearbox protecting the battery from overheating?

I truly hope this is serious question and not just a meme ?

The concept is the same as in car and quite similar to a bicycle with more then one gear.

This will be over simplified.

Generally, every EV has a transmission, even a Tesla, as the e-motor coil is not directly connected to the Achsel. Technically this would mean you have a one gear transmission.

Lets say you a 1:1 ration, motor coil turns 1 round and the Achsel will turn one round.

With a gearbox with a second gear, the e-motor would have a different ratio. For the sake of the discussion it is 1:2. Meaning the e-motor coil turns one round and the Achsel turns two rounds. This effect, puts less strain on the battery as it is more efficient, as it has smaller energy peaks which keeps the battery “cooler”.

For me a good comparison is when you ride a bike in the first gear and hit pedals as fast as you can, and then switch to a higher gear and maintain the same speed with half the pedal rounds. This would reduce the heat in ones head and you sweat less.

This is why Porsche Taycan can maintain its acceleration performance for the race track continuously.

I hope this gives you an idea.

 

[whitex]

I truly hope this is serious question and not just a meme ?

The concept is the same as in car and quite similar to a bicycle with more then one gear.

This will be over simplified.

Generally, every EV has a transmission, even a Tesla, as the e-motor coil is not directly connected to the Achsel. Technically this would mean you have a one gear transmission.

Lets say you a 1:1 ration, motor coil turns 1 round and the Achsel will turn one round.

With a gearbox with a second gear, the e-motor would have a different ratio. For the sake of the discussion it is 1:2. Meaning the e-motor coil turns one round and the Achsel turns two rounds. This effect, puts less strain on the battery as it is more efficient, as it has smaller energy peaks which keeps the battery “cooler”.

For me a good comparison is when you ride a bike in the first gear and hit pedals as fast as you can, and then switch to a higher gear and maintain the same speed with half the pedal rounds. This would reduce the heat in ones head and you sweat less.

This is why Porsche Taycan can maintain its acceleration performance for the race track continuously.

I hope this gives you an idea.

I was asking because I was curious if there were any secondary effects you were thinking of such as motors heating up less due to lower rotational speed and therefore wasting less energy (assuming motor heat cannot be recycled to heat the battery, which often it can be) - that would be a very small effect. Or perhaps if you had some Taycan motors efficiency graphs (see last paragraph how gears could help if motor has high efficiency variation vs rpm), which I was not aware of.

Your explanation is based on a common fallacy that gears somehow increase power (energy/time). It does not (google it, plenty of explanations on the internet). Moving a the same car the same distance at the same speed consumes the same amount power (and therefore energy, since the time would the the same too), regardless of a gear you are in. Gears can increase torque at the cost of speed, however the total energy consumed is identical. This means the amount of power drawn from the battery is identical to move the same car at the same speed for the same distance (and time, since speed is the same).

If you take your argument to the extreme, simply adding more gears would make EV's more and more efficient, but it doesn't (notice that Teslas are more efficient than Porsche for example). Where gears can help save energy is if the motor is more efficient at producing power at a particular RPM. This is a lot more applicable for ICE engines, as they are already very inefficient (~80% of energy from fossil fuels turns into heat, only ~20% is used for driving). For for some rpm's ICE motors are just very inefficient (create a lot more heat percentage wise, or have incomplete combustion causing it to be wasteful) - this is where the old school "overdrive" for highway speeds came about. For electric motors this is not the case, as they are way more efficient to start with.

As for why you heat up more on a bicycle when in high gear, it's not because you are producing more energy, you are just making more power in shorter time. Think of another analogy, what if you had a case of 24 1L bottles of water and you had to lift from the floor onto a shelf. What would use more energy, lifting the whole case at once or one bottle at the time? The answer is, pretty much the same energy, with one bottle at a time using slightly more because you have to lift your arm weight and air resistance adds a little, meaning work to lift arms and fight air resistance will be 24x when you do one bottle at a time (25x if you lift the empty case at the end).

 

[Jhenson29]

I truly hope this is serious question and not just a meme ?

The concept is the same as in car and quite similar to a bicycle with more then one gear.

This will be over simplified.

Generally, every EV has a transmission, even a Tesla, as the e-motor coil is not directly connected to the Achsel. Technically this would mean you have a one gear transmission.

Lets say you a 1:1 ration, motor coil turns 1 round and the Achsel will turn one round.

With a gearbox with a second gear, the e-motor would have a different ratio. For the sake of the discussion it is 1:2. Meaning the e-motor coil turns one round and the Achsel turns two rounds. This effect, puts less strain on the battery as it is more efficient, as it has smaller energy peaks which keeps the battery “cooler”.

For me a good comparison is when you ride a bike in the first gear and hit pedals as fast as you can, and then switch to a higher gear and maintain the same speed with half the pedal rounds. This would reduce the heat in ones head and you sweat less.

Acceleration at a given rate will take a calculable power that’s the same regardless of gearing and thus stresses the battery the same. The gearing changes what power is available at what (wheel) speed, and only in the constant torque range of the motor (makes no difference in the constant HP range, other than max speed).

This is why Porsche Taycan can maintain its acceleration performance for the race track continuously.

I think @daveo4EV already said that’s not the case.

 

[Winterfell]

then they did a piss poor job - as the Taycan can't run as long as a Model 3 Performance in track mode on track - although it clearly handles/brakes better - but saying the Taycan is a "track car" is laughable…

it can't even stay out long enough to complete a 20 minute sprint race…and I also am not sure how a gear box "protects" the battery - if anything it would be the EV motors as you can run them at lower RPMs with a shift - but the battery discharge rates are static as is the amount of power being pumped back into the battery under heavy regen braking…

and if it was their goal - well it didn't work - battery overheated in about 12 minutes of full pace track driving…

https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/t...d-on-driving-lap-data-impressions-added.2923/

Gosh you all get emotional. Everybody had their experiences and they count. Some for the better other for the worst, and I except all.

Anyway, here is the science behind it in detail from IEEE engineers.

 

[Winterfell]

I was asking because I was curious if there were any secondary effects you were thinking of such as motors heating up less due to lower rotational speed and therefore wasting less energy (assuming motor heat cannot be recycled to heat the battery, which often it can be) - that would be a very small effect. Or perhaps if you had some Taycan motors efficiency graphs (see last paragraph how gears could help if motor has high efficiency variation vs rpm), which I was not aware of.

Your explanation is based on a common fallacy that gears somehow increase power (energy/time). It does not (google it, plenty of explanations on the internet). Moving a the same car the same distance at the same speed consumes the same amount power (and therefore energy, since the time would the the same too), regardless of a gear you are in. Gears can increase torque at the cost of speed, however the total energy consumed is identical. This means the amount of power drawn from the battery is identical to move the same car at the same speed for the same distance (and time, since speed is the same).

If you take your argument to the extreme, simply adding more gears would make EV's more and more efficient, but it doesn't (notice that Teslas are more efficient than Porsche for example). Where gears can help save energy is if the motor is more efficient at producing power at a particular RPM. This is a lot more applicable for ICE engines, as they are already very inefficient (~80% of energy from fossil fuels turns into heat, only ~20% is used for driving). For for some rpm's ICE motors are just very inefficient (create a lot more heat percentage wise, or have incomplete combustion causing it to be wasteful) - this is where the old school "overdrive" for highway speeds came about. For electric motors this is not the case, as they are way more efficient to start with.

As for why you heat up more on a bicycle when in high gear, it's not because you are producing more energy, you are just making more power in shorter time. Think of another analogy, what if you had a case of 24 1L bottles of water and you had to lift from the floor onto a shelf. What would use more energy, lifting the whole case at once or one bottle at the time? The answer is, pretty much the same energy, with one bottle at a time using slightly more because you have to lift your arm weight and air resistance adds a little, meaning work to lift arms and fight air resistance will be 24x when you do one bottle at a time (25x if you lift the empty case at the end).

I understand what you are saying. However, here is the science behind it, from IEEE researchers.

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