break in, run in, gentle early miles/Kms?

[Jhenson29]

Anyway, here is the science behind it in detail from IEEE engineers.

From your article. Bolding mine.

Of these two are already in production vehicles, the GKN/BMW I8 [110] and the Porsche Taycan [107] gearboxes, both of which are used to improve the acceleration and top speed of performance-oriented electrified vehicles.

And FYI, I’ve worked in industrial controls and automation specializing in electrical and programming for 18 years and have done startup and control on more electric motors than I can count. Over 1000 just to give a ballpark. In a large variety of applications. Some of which included multi speed gear boxes.

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[Winterfell]

How exactly is the gearbox protecting the battery from overheating?

Fair enough, “protecting” was the wrong word. My intent was (I hope I don’t need a lawyer for this), to express the possibility to slower temperature increase through efficiency. I am not saying it huge but measurable.

Consider the time, is this better?

 

[Winterfell]

From your article. Bolding mine.



And FYI, I’ve worked in industrial controls and automation specializing in electrical and programming for 18 years and have done startup and control on more electric motors than I can count. Over 1000 just to give a ballpark. In a large variety of applications. Some of which included multi speed gear boxes.

VERY COOL actually

 

[whitex]

I understand what you are saying. However, here is the science behind it, from IEEE researchers.

Thanks. I have not seen that paper, will check it out possibly this weekend if I'm bored playing poker (yes, if you play poker properly, it can be boring for stretches of time). I also appreciate you willing to have an actual open minded conversation, rather than jumping straight to insults or taking offense*.

That said, from the abstract of the paper you quoted:

So it seems, nobody has been able to prove so far that multi-gear system can actually be significantly more efficient, only that they can be significantly less efficient (up to 30% less). EV's are in their teething years still, it will be interesting to see if anyone figures out a way multi-gear actually provides significant efficiency improvements for EV. I'm not saying it's impossible (hence my original question to you), but it would have to be due to some EV motor specific characteristics. On the other hand, the fact that it can increase top speed and other benefits has been known for a while (I think is the sole reason Taycan has the gearbox is the top speed, but that's just my speculation, I don't have hard data to prove it).

*Taking offense in my book is always the wrong move. If your opponent did not intend offense, you get upset over a misunderstanding. If your opponent is in fact intending to offend you, getting offended plays right into your opponent's hand. Either way, getting offended is a losing move.

 

[Winterfell]

Not at all, I selected it once, never had to select it ever again for years - available any time under your right foot.

Taycan doesn't even remember the drive mode between drives, and engaging LC requires the car to be stopped, in a right mode, and a sequence of pedal presses. No way to engage it when already rolling, or when you want to pass someone on a highway - neither is a problem in a Tesla or other EV's.

In fairness, Launch Control is meant when you are at a standstill. It is a feature from the Rennsport.

Yes, I find it annoying too that the Porsche CT does not remember it. It is the same as in the Audi e-tron. It is a Software problem which hopefully gets fixed some day. Unfortunately Audi provides the basis for the Taycan software and Porsche is doing its best to build on it. For that I give them kudos, they still habe a bit to go. In the Porsche it is just turning the dial on the steering wheel compared to the e-tron where have use a selector in the menu.

 

[whitex]

In fairness, Launch Control is meant when you are at a standstill. It is a feature from the Rennsport.

Yes it is. Ludicrous/Plaid on Tesla on the other hand is throttle response mapping, available at all times, so not the same thing / same purpose as you originally suggested. I think full power of Tesla is always available when you floor the accelerator btw, even in Chill Mode. Not on a Taycan, sadly full power only available in LC mode which has to be activated while stopped and only few seconds before use.

 

[Novemberwhisky]

Bed in those brakes properly. Mine felt quite disappointing for quite a few miles:

https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/t...-at-400-miles-for-me-and-its-wonderful.14519/

So some proper braking for a period. motorway/highway/autopista long miles ain’t gonna cut it I guess due to regen doing much of the deceleration.

 

[MHC]

I read on another thread some talk about breaking in the car from new. Avoiding launch, etc. My GTS ST arrives in 4 weeks, need some advice as my son will be ngging me to launch at every opportunity. Does the user manual mention this?

Electric cars usually do not require any break-in period. Have fun .

 

[dugbug]

Electric cars usually do not require any break-in period. Have fun .

but again this ev has a transmission. Is it the only ev with one?

does that not require some break-in period? Id hope not but my taycan is an august delivery so I really don’t know

 

[BJCanadaMax]

EV's have way way way fewer moving parts vs ICE vehicle's - while I'm a huge fan of mechanical sympathy - you don't wait to 'break in' your phone or your laptop

other than maybe avoiding doing launch control at every stop light - drive as you see fit - there is far less to 'break in' (if anything) on an EV.

Actually i think that there is some sort of break in. But i think that it's more with the battery calibration front.

 

[MHC]

but again this ev has a transmission. Is it the only ev with one?

does that not require some break-in period? Id hope not but my taycan is an august delivery so I really don’t know

It’s only a two speed transmission and it was built for launches. It is the same components as in the Turbo S. I wouldn’t worry about it.

 

[Archimedes]

I was simply responding to the OP's question, saying if you want to take it easy on the car, only use LC when racing other EV's , as you will need it. Some might incorrectly assume Porsche with its reputation for fast cars would not need LC to out-accelerate a factory mass production car that costs a quarter of the Taycan price (it as if a top Panamera is beat at the lights by a top Camry). I made that mistaken assumption - switching out of a Model S, pedal to the floor at the lights beat pretty much any non-Tesla out there with ease, and mine wasn't even Plaid. Taycan Turbo was supposed to have the same according to advertised numbers. I was honestly surprised how much of Porsche's advertised performance is locked behind Launch Control.

Making a fast EV just requires a big battery and multiple motors. There isn’t near the level of engineering know how/trade secrets required for an ICE car in that regard. And Porsche has never been about drag times. There have always been faster cars out there.

Also, contrary to many other cars that have an involved process they call launch control, the Taycan’s is just stand and stomp. The power’s not hidden behind much of anything.

 

[daveo4EV]

I truly hope this is serious question and not just a meme ?

The concept is the same as in car and quite similar to a bicycle with more then one gear.

This will be over simplified.

Generally, every EV has a transmission, even a Tesla, as the e-motor coil is not directly connected to the Achsel. Technically this would mean you have a one gear transmission.

Lets say you a 1:1 ration, motor coil turns 1 round and the Achsel will turn one round.

With a gearbox with a second gear, the e-motor would have a different ratio. For the sake of the discussion it is 1:2. Meaning the e-motor coil turns one round and the Achsel turns two rounds. This effect, puts less strain on the battery as it is more efficient, as it has smaller energy peaks which keeps the battery “cooler”.

For me a good comparison is when you ride a bike in the first gear and hit pedals as fast as you can, and then switch to a higher gear and maintain the same speed with half the pedal rounds. This would reduce the heat in ones head and you sweat less.

This is why Porsche Taycan can maintain its acceleration performance for the race track continuously.

I hope this gives you an idea.

yeah this is mostly (100%?) wrong

in the simplest terms - battery thermals are decoupled from any mechanical speed - they are separate systems and thermally do not contribute to one another. They are only tangentially related in that "more power" from the battery can equal "more" RPM's from the motor - but the motor's RPM"s have nothing to do with "why" the battery is heating up - it's heating up because of the amount of power being shoved through the wires…

the battery heats up due to transfer of power (discharge and charge) - more power = more heat - Taycan can pump about 500 kW (more or less depending on trim level) into the EV motor's - 500 kW (1/2 megawatt) generates a lot of heat - the speed/RPM at which you are running the mechanical EV motors has nothing to due with the discharge rate load on the battery (moving electrons through wires causes heat) - that is what is warming the battery - the transmission is "invisible" to the battery - what will "cool" the battery is lower discharge rates…the conversion from electrical power/energy to mechanical force (torque/power) is the EV motor - which is for purposes of "thermal" load decoupled from the battery - the two are unrelated and the reason for the transmission is unrelated to battery thermals which are purely driven by electrical current loads…

the engineering is clear, straight forward and thermally decoupled…

This is why Porsche Taycan can maintain its acceleration performance for the race track continuously.

yeah I'm huge fan of Porsche (and put my money where my mouth is I own several and will take delivery of a 911 GT3 RS in august) they make the best cars if you can afford the price - but this is a bit too much Porsche marketing coolaid - the Taycan can not maintain it's acceleration performance on track "continously" - but I see where you got your misconcpetion. Porsche has marketed the Taycan as having repeatable performance from launch…which is true - you can take the Taycan from 0-xxx mph over and over and over again - and at the time this was interesting because it was well understood a Tesla Model S could not do the same thing…but times have changed and the Model 3/Y/S Plaid no longer have as severe a limiitation in this space....

accelerating from a stop to a set speed and then slowing-down/stopping is very very different that "maintaining accerleration performance on a race track" - mostly because you're on the power for much longer period of time…in this capacity the Taycan is weak and ill-suited…

repeatable performance from launch has nothing to do with "continously accelerating" on track - they are two entirely separate scenarios - and in one the Taycan performs admirably, and the other - well not so much.

let's compare

acclerating from 0-100 mph means you're on full power for about 7 seconds - and then you're off - cool and do it again…the Taycan can do 7 second sprints with breaks in between over and over and over…because they can cool the battery between 7 second sprints where thermal loads are much lower…and 7-9 seconds of "full" power isn't really that "much" thermal load - it's a spike - not continuous.

at laguna Seca I can do a 1:45.xx lap time - I'm on full power for 45-60% of that lap - that's 45-57 seconds of constant FULL power per lap - this is how you drive on a race track - in 6 laps that is about 270 to 342 seconds of "full" power - at that point in time you have thermally saturated the battery and the Taycan's battery cooling system is "overwhelmed" and the battery has reached 132F and the computers jump in a limit "full" power to avoid high discharge rates and bring the battery thermal load back "under" the thermal cooling capacity for battery longevity…

270 seconds of "full power" = 38 consecutive 0-100 mph launches
342 seconds of "full power" = 48 consecutive 0-100 mph launches

the other "difference" with track driving vs. consecutive launches is if you're not on the accelerator you're on the brakes - due to regenerative braking - this is also thermal load on the battery -because now electrons are flowing from the mechanicals back into the battery - electrons flowing in wires cause heat - doesn't matter what direction they are flowing - if they moving inside of a wire - they are generating heat - so on track if I'm "off" the accelerator I'm "on" the brakes - this means power flow (in both directions) - which means thermal load on the battery…there is no rest and the Taycan's cooling system is not of sufficient size/capacity to thermally cool the battery enough to keep it below 132F under constant "max load" (accelerating/regen-braking) - so it decreases/chops power and limits power flow when the battery has reached it's thermal limits - to give the cooling system a fighting chance of getting the battery temp under control.

On track continuous acceleration also means continuous braking/regen - which means continuous thermal load - and after about 12-15 minute of that the Taycan's systems "cry uncle" and reduce power to maintain battery health and avoid exceeding battery thermal limits.

12-15 minute of full power track time before the battery thermals give up is not that impressive to anyone who's done any serious track time.

yeah Taycan can "launch" over and over and over which is a huge accomplishment…no doubt and we love it for it

but that is a far cry from "maintain its acceleration performance for the race track continuously." - and factually the Taycan "can't" - it's not a difference in experience - it's a fact.

The Taycan can do about 2 nurburgring laps or about 6-8 laps @ laguna seca and then it needs to come in for two reasons: battery thermals are saturated and you're down to 50% or less battery capacity.

when I had lunch w/Porsche Mechanical engineer last summer we talked extensively about "ring lapping" the Taycan - he said it was the hardest "official" lap time Porsche ever attempted - because the Taycan is just barely able to do it - and due to logistics of where the official time line "starts" you have to do about 7/8th of a lap before you "send it" - that 7/8th can't be too slow, but also can't be too fast because you have a limited "battery" thermal capacity and power capacity - the Taycan can just "barely" do it's published Nurburgring lap time and it requires careful power/thermal management to get it "over the line" at at only slightly faster than a current generation 718 Cayman even though it has quite a bit more HP…it's "race track chops" are laughable - but it's a great EV Sports Sedan on the street.

now the Mission-R (the racing version of the 718 EV) - Porsche has stated it will be able to run "full power" for at least 30 minutes with no power/thermal limitations…I can't wait for that - but even that is a far cry from a 90 minute-120 minute club race enduro.

this is the major selling point of the upcoming Mission-R - it can run continuously at full race pace for 30 minutes - this is it's major break through and I personally am in line to get one and race it - I can't wait - but what is unsaid is - this _IS_ a break through - because current EV's "can't do this" - and that means Taycan - even Porsche admits Taycan lacks racing endurance, and 30 min is only a sprint race - Taycan can not even compete at full capacity for a 20 minute sprint race - which is about as simple/easy of a racing/track challenge as one could imagine.

we're not there yet - but I still love my Taycan on the street - and drive it to the track to flog my GT3 RS…now there is a car that can "maintain its acceleration performance for the race track continuously." - But that's not the Taycan.

Porsche is a great car company and the Taycan is the best EV Sport Sedan on the Market - I love it and wouldn't trade it for anything - but let's try and not overstate it's abilities, and we all need to parse Porsche's marketing with a bit more rigor - the Taycan's "racing" capabilities are weak sauce and it's on track performance is only good in the sense in that it's the first 5,100 lbs EV sports sedan to not fall flat on it's face - but that's a low bar…

 

[f1eng]

but again this ev has a transmission. Is it the only ev with one?

does that not require some break-in period? Id hope not but my taycan is an august delivery so I really don’t know

All EVs have a transmission but it usually only has one ratio.

They need it to drop the motor speed of many thousands of rpm to the wheel speed.

The gears in it will run in better if not used at high power straight away.
Hobbed gears have “high spots” which polish off during initial running but which may cause pitting if run near max load when new.

 

[WuffvonTrips]

The review below includes back-to-back 0-100kph tests of a Turbo Sedan, first with LC at 3.16 seconds, then without LC at 3.26 seconds. In the "real" world of traffic-light grand prix, that difference might be less significant than variation in reaction times (even if we ignore the additional prep time of engaging LC).
view from 9:50

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