New Porsche batteries coming with 800 mile range

[kempez]

Its fine if you live in London.
Levelling up my ar5e....

FFS ?? yeah, quite!

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[Jhenson29]

To do that 400 mile round trip while accounting for cold weather loss (20%), that I don't want to go below 10% reserve, and potential 10% SoC loss over time, an 800 mile car becomes a 480 mile car.

Yes, I could add a charging stop without too much hassle, or maybe find a charger close to my destination and walk to my destination, but that sort of ignores the point that I put a lot of value on time and choice. If an EV existed that allowed me to basically only stop to charge in ideal circumstances, that would be huge for me, and I could do mostly home charging at low rates or at DCFCs that had the most convenient offerings of services (meaning, not Walmart)

Just keep in mind that this 800 mile car is gonna take forever to charge back up at 9.6kW at home.

Range is not the issue. It’s infrastructure. It’s slow to charge and there aren’t enough locations. It needs to be significantly faster and way more locations. Like gas stations now. I never understand the people who want to solve this with range.

If the public charging situation is that big of an issue that you are considering this much range as being necessary, stick with or go back to ICE for now. That’s what I do. I still use an ICE vehicle for long trips.

Note that if one is fine with and/or tolerates using the existing options for charging, that’s fine. Keep on. However, I’m responding here to a case where one is not.

 

[f1eng]

I kind of like the idea of keeping my Taycan for the long term. I know I’ll be tempted by newer models but it would be great to see how this car is going in 20 years time - even it needs a new battery along the way. Like ICE cars need an expensive engine rebuild at some point. I’m not too concerned about a new battery it’s more how all the sensors and other tech on the car will survive in the long run. This is true for ICE cars too of course
As you say with Porsche you know they’ve thought about this and they’ll help keep your car on the road - at a price.

My concern with longevity is also with electronics availibility not the battery.

I have old huge full range loudspeakers that cost the same as a 911 when I bought them over 25 years ago and I still enjoy them daily.
I also have some clever DSP compensated active streaming speakers which are small (for the performance, huge compared to typical smart speakers) which have similar bass capability using clever technology to compensate for the enclosure volume.
I bought the introduction model and after 5 years the electronics were already hardware incompatible with the latest firmware.
They still work fine with the original firmware though.

Hopefully since the main functions of the Taycan are excellent stuff like not being compatible with the latest streaming service won't be of any concern (to someone into classics).

I am already totally unconcerned about the lack of screen-candy and so forth.

 

[nickmdp]

Just keep in mind that this 800 mile car is gonna take forever to charge back up at 9.6kW at home.

Range is not the issue. It’s infrastructure. It’s slow to charge and there aren’t enough locations. It needs to be significantly faster and way more locations. Like gas stations now. I never understand the people who want to solve this with range.

If the public charging situation is that big of an issue that you are considering this much range as being necessary, stick with or go back to ICE for now. That’s what I do. I still use an ICE vehicle for long trips.

Note that if one is fine with and/or tolerates using the existing options for charging, that’s fine. Keep on. However, I’m responding here to a case where one is not.

Yeah, realistically, the longest range EV I expect to exist in the next 5-7 years and that I would pay extra for would be around 500 miles. I do agree that if charging was much faster, so I didn't need to spend more than 5 minutes or so at a rest stop, and was also ubiquitous along major highways, that would probably solve most problems for me, but I do worry that it may be a long way off.

My wife does have a PHEV Volt that we've used for longer trips when needed, and after a while of having both, I think if I needed to replace my Taycan right now, I would likely go with PHEV. The options available seem to be a bit wider, and my daily commute can easily fit within the 30-50 mile range that most seem to have. It's anyone's guess where the market will be in 2-5 years when I actually end up replacing my Taycan though.

 

[TAYC4S]

Agreed but as I understsnd it Taycan battery is serviceable so you can replace dodgy battery modules if required. Longterm battery prices are going to fall significantly as the tech matures. So a $40k battery becomes $20k. Then it’s a different proposition if you want to replace it.

Replacing modules is one thing but, with Porsche having invested heavily in solid state - as have many others, this could/would likely be the future direction of travel when it comes to batteries. Assuming that happens, well that’s a whole different architectural set-up both hardware and software - so many aspects will change (especially on the s/w side).

Refreshing old lithium modules -sure. A swap to a totally new architecture/platform - possible but I doubt Porsche would do it…I think they would prefer you to step into the next version…and frankly that’s what I would do…

 

[hifi239]

... So why the panic about range

For daily use, 200mi is plenty of range. For long trips, it isn't so much the range as it is lack of reliable and pervasive DC charging. That appears to be improving in US and Europe. Considering the number of gas stations, except for a couple of places in Nevada or Montana, you could easily live with an ICE car with 150mi range and go anywhere.

 

[Bognar67]

Maybe Europe is better, my experience on my regular 600km (375mi) road trip Hungary-Germany (and back):
- Start with 100%
- 1st stop is after 280km (175mi) ca. 2 hours drive with 9 min charging.
- 2nd stop is after 120km (75mi) ca. 1 hour drive 17 min charging. Perfect for coffee and toilet brake after all together 3 hours drive.
Both direct highway HPC 350kW chargers at filling stations.
- Then 1,5 hours drive to the destination with 15-20% arrival (destination charging is available for a stay).

There is no huge diff compare to the stopping and driving times, when I used to travel with my 911 991.2 C4.
On highways almost always have to:
- wait for 1-2-3 cars with ICE to fill up, - average 4 min
- then go into the Shop to pay -average 3 min
- park out from the filling position - 2 min
- only after these steps toilet+coffee - 10 min
Total average stopping time is 19 min.

For me:
- plug in
- toilet+coffe
- plug out
is way more convenient and minimum not slower than fill up.

Already perfectly happy.
Was very similar with my T M3P but the Taycan's economy is much better at highway speed and offers significantly higher real charging power average.

 

[Jhenson29]

Maybe Europe is better, my experience on my regular 600km (375mi) road trip Hungary-Germany (and back):

Yeah, but that’s not that far and it sounds like you don’t mind stopping…and it sounds like the gas station situation may be worse; so the bar is lower.

I regularly travel 800-1000miles driving one way. St Louis to Charleston SC, or Colorado Springs CO, or Corpus Christi TX. Or shorter 500-600 miles to Minneapolis MN, Detroit MI, or Cleveland OH.

And I only stop once for about 10-15 min. Off highway time. Not stopped time; that’s less. That’s fuel, bathroom, food.

And the stops require zero planning. Just stop when I need to.

I can count on one hand the number of times I’ve had to wait in line for gas, with fingers left over.

So, EV charging for road trips is a long ways off for me.

 

[Bognar67]

Yeah, but that’s not that far and it sounds like you don’t mind stopping…and it sounds like the gas station situation may be worse; so the bar is lower.

I regularly travel 800-1000miles driving one way. St Louis to Charleston SC, or Colorado Springs CO, or Corpus Christi TX. Or shorter 500-600 miles to Minneapolis MN, Detroit MI, or Cleveland OH.

And I only stop once for about 10-15 min. Off highway time. Not stopped time; that’s less. That’s fuel, bathroom, food.

And the stops require zero planning. Just stop when I need to.

I can count on one hand the number of times I’ve had to wait in line for gas, with fingers left over.

So, EV charging for road trips is a long ways off for me.

I think above 6-800mi distance flying is faster cheaper +rent a car locally if necessary. ICE or BEíV does not matter.

 

[Jhenson29]

I think above 6-800mi distance flying is faster cheaper +rent a car locally if necessary. ICE or BEíV does not matter.

600 miles is about the same because STL isn’t a hub and I often have a connecting flight. 800+ and yeah, I typically fly, but I can t always depending on tools and parts. Can’t fly if I have a 1000lb box or a large motor or an 8’ steel roll to take with me.

So, I drive a lot also.

Driving is also more flexible when I’m unsure of a schedule and don’t know what time I will leave, so I sometimes drive for that reason as well.

 

[Bognar67]

600 miles is about the same because STL isn’t a hub and I often have a connecting flight. 800+ and yeah, I typically fly, but I can t always depending on tools and parts. Can’t fly if I have a 1000lb box or a large motor or an 8’ steel roll to take with me.

So, I drive a lot also.

Driving is also more flexible when I’m unsure of a schedule and don’t know what time I will leave, so I sometimes drive for that reason as well.

Yes, BEV is not to everybody for sure, especially for long distance business travels with cargo. But your 911 also not suitable for this too although it is not electric... So it is rather cargo capacity not BEV/ICE case.

 

[Jhenson29]

Yes, BEV is not to everybody for sure, especially for long distance business travels with cargo. But your 911 also not suitable for this too although it is not electric... So it is rather cargo capacity not BEV/ICE case.

No. You’re flat wrong there. It’s 100% BEV vs ICE here.

The 911 is unsuitable regardless of power source.

But I’ve taken my Macan on lots of work trips. And that would cease if it were electric.

Yes, a vehicle may be unsuitable for other reasons, but that’s hardly the point. ?

 

[Bognar67]

No. You’re flat wrong there. It’s 100% BEV vs ICE here.

The 911 is unsuitable regardless of power source.

But I’ve taken my Macan on lots of work trips. And that would cease if it were electric.

Yes, a vehicle may be unsuitable for other reasons, but that’s hardly the point. ?

I was sure I'll be "flat wrong" at the end of the conversation with you. Business as usual.

 

[Jhenson29]

I was sure I'll be "flat wrong" at the end of the conversation with you. Business as usual.

Yeah, I was sure you would be too; we just had to work our way there. ?

 

[Bognar67]

Yeah, I was sure you would be too; we just had to work our way there. ?

Yeah, I was sure you would be too; we just had to work our way there. ?

Typical. ?

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