[Article] = as I've always said don't sweat the battery lifespan -- "Researchers make surprising discovery about lifespan of EV batteries"

[Archimedes]

To me, the only number that is important is 'what does it really cost to replace the battery of a Taycan with a refurbished one, out of warranty ?'
If I do not know that number, I will sell the car before it is 8 years old.

Because you think the marketplace won’t have access to the same information you have about your impending warranty ending and the potential lack of cost effective replacements? If it doesn’t make sense for you to keep the car, then it won’t make sense for others to buy it, and it’ll be worth diddly squat.

The reality is likely a) battery deg won’t be that bad and b) there will be cost effective options by then.

My long term concerns about the Taycan are not the batteries. It’s the durability of the rest on the car around the batteries. If that proves solid, I think any battery issues will be both solvable and worth solving.

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[WasserGKuehlt]

To me, the only number that is important is 'what does it really cost to replace the battery of a Taycan with a refurbished one, out of warranty ?'
...
So far nobody can answer that question.

Good question, too soon to answer. I am sure we will have an answer, though, in the next 5-8 years. Aftermarket works when there is enough of it (an 'after' market) - and we're not there yet.

 

[snstevens]

Let's not lose track of the "good news" here. With the exception of a couple of models that had major issues (Hyundai Kona and Chevy Bolt) the trend is toward improvement in HV battery ability to hold charge over the lifetime of the EV.

While the data is certainly "preliminary", with no Taycan data since the car is still new, I don't see any downside in this article.

 

[ciaranob]

Let's not lose track of the "good news" here. With the exception of a couple of models that had major issues (Hyundai Kona and Chevy Bolt) the trend is toward improvement in HV battery ability to hold charge over the lifetime of the EV.

While the data is certainly "preliminary", with no Taycan data since the car is still new, I don't see any downside in this article.

Not true - we have 3 years of data , and quite a significant evolution form a 2020 battery with many known issues to a much improved 2023 battery

Otherwise agreed re battery development trends, and indeed a long way to go to match say Tesla data to date, but, by example, all my consumptive data calculates an Soh that matches near perfectly with my PIWIS and OBDII measured Soh which is now at 88% after only 7700 miles in 1.8 years and has a really decent chance of hitting 80% or lower by 3 years of ownership/mileage.

Perhaps more significantly, the dealership will use that PIWIS measurement to at least (initially) determine whether I qualify for a replacement battery at that time (I'd have to assume they'd also do a deep test to try to get out of eating that cost ). Will be interesting when I get there.

And again, my condition most def a result of use in an extremely hot climate and perhaps statistically 'anomalous' vs most other Taycans.

 

[WasserGKuehlt]

Not true - we have 3 years of data , and quite a significant evolution form a 2020 battery with many known issues to a much improved 2023 battery

Otherwise agreed re battery development trends, and indeed a long way to go to match say Tesla data to date, but, by example, all my consumptive data calculates an Soh that matches near perfectly with my PIWIS and OBDII measured Soh which is now at 88% after only 7700 miles in 1.8 years and has a really decent chance of hitting 80% or lower by 3 years of ownership/mileage.

Perhaps more significantly, the dealership will use that PIWIS measurement to at least (initially) determine whether I qualify for a replacement battery at that time (I'd have to assume they'd also do a deep test to try to get out of eating that cost ). Will be interesting when I get there.

And again, my condition most def a result of use in an extremely hot climate and perhaps statistically 'anomalous' vs most other Taycans.

I’ve been meaning to send you my latest data, but the gist of it is that it’s not looking good for me, either: 91 SoH after 12k miles in 8 months. (And it wasn’t hot here this summer, even by our PNW definition of the term.)

 

[snstevens]

Not true - we have 3 years of data , and quite a significant evolution form a 2020 battery with many known issues to a much improved 2023 battery

Otherwise agreed re battery development trends, and indeed a long way to go to match say Tesla data to date, but, by example, all my consumptive data calculates an Soh that matches near perfectly with my PIWIS and OBDII measured Soh which is now at 88% after only 7700 miles in 1.8 years and has a really decent chance of hitting 80% or lower by 3 years of ownership/mileage.

Perhaps more significantly, the dealership will use that PIWIS measurement to at least (initially) determine whether I qualify for a replacement battery at that time (I'd have to assume they'd also do a deep test to try to get out of eating that cost ). Will be interesting when I get there.

And again, my condition most def a result of use in an extremely hot climate and perhaps statistically 'anomalous' vs most other Taycans.

My comment about Taycan data has to do with the source data for the article referenced in Post #1.

I haven't bought an OBDII reader, but my SoH must be near 100% since the Summer mileage at 85%-100% SOC hasn't changed in over 2.2 years and 15,800 miles.

 

[007]

HV battery on sale now!

Excluding labor.....

I would wait until Black Friday for a better deal ?

 

[ciaranob]

My comment about Taycan data has to do with the source data for the article referenced in Post #1.

I haven't bought an OBDII reader, but my SoH must be near 100% since the Summer mileage at 85%-100% SOC hasn't changed in over 2.2 years and 15,800 miles.

Understood.

Would be great to see you’re OBD or PIWIS Soh - prod, prod .

For ref are you talking GoM range or back calculated consumptive range? I’m interested in both as I still suspect there is some let’s say ‘odd’ range reporting going on with the cars averaging of consumptive use - in my car there is at least a 5% drop in average ranges from year 1 vs year 2 from 2 years of comprehensive data logging - I reported 10% before but that may be high (depends on how you deal with that averaging) so less than half the SoH drop. More to this but will post on the baseline thread once I finish sorting through it.

 

[ciaranob]

I’ve been meaning to send you my latest data, but the gist of it is that it’s not looking good for me, either: 91 SoH after 12k miles in 8 months. (And it wasn’t hot here this summer, even by our PNW definition of the term.)

It certainly seems from all the data to date that the initial often quoted ca 10% drop in SoH before a longer term flattening trend seems to happen far quicker in our Taycan’s say vs Teslas - in case of latter it’s usually over 6-10 years. 9 pts in 8 months does indeed seem fast and esp for a cooler climate zone. Hopefully yours starts to flatten out soon. I’ll use those no.s if close enough for the chart?

 

[Tooney]

For ref are you talking GoM range or back calculated consumptive range? I’m interested in both as I still suspect there is some let’s say ‘odd’ range reporting going on with the cars averaging of consumptive use - in my car there is at least a 5% drop in average ranges from year 1 vs year 2 from 2 years of comprehensive data logging - I reported 10% before but that may be high (depends on how you deal with that averaging) so less than half the SoH drop. More to this but will post on the baseline thread once I finish sorting through it.

After reading your #19 above - where it appears your consumptive data matches your SoH, and your statement here about car's odd averaging of consumptive use, do you suspect that the Taycan's reporting of consumption, such as miles per kwh since start of vehicle ownership, is not accurate?
I'd like to think/hope that the Taycan can accurately total miles driven and kwh consumed and report that, but I have not kept track of kwh consumed.

 

[WasserGKuehlt]

It certainly seems from all the data to date that the initial often quoted ca 10% drop in SoH before a longer term flattening trend seems to happen far quicker in our Taycan’s say vs Teslas - in case of latter it’s usually over 6-10 years. 9 pts in 8 months does indeed seem fast and esp for a cooler climate zone. Hopefully yours starts to flatten out soon. I’ll use those no.s if close enough for the chart?

Yeah, not a good drop for me - 2pts in 1k+ miles. Please don’t put them in the chart yet, I’ll post on the SoH thread this weekend. (I want to take another measurement, it’s been another 1k miles since then with ~5 fast DC charging sessions ?)

 

[ciaranob]

Yeah, not a good drop for me - 2pts in 1k+ miles. Please don’t put them in the chart yet, I’ll post on the SoH thread this weekend. (I want to take another measurement, it’s been another 1k miles since then with ~5 fast DC charging sessions ?)

No worries - I’ll wait.

 

[ciaranob]

After reading your #19 above - where it appears your consumptive data matches your SoH, and your statement here about car's odd averaging of consumptive use, do you suspect that the Taycan's reporting of consumption, such as miles per kwh since start of vehicle ownership, is not accurate?
I'd like to think/hope that the Taycan can accurately total miles driven and kwh consumed and report that, but I have not kept track of kwh consumed.

Just a ref to being sure to compare like to like in both how you both calculate consumption (no. diff ways) and derive means - nothing too cryptic

 

[Tooney]

Just a ref to being sure to compare like to like in both how you both calculate consumption (no. diff ways) and derive means - nothing too cryptic

Ok. @Archimedes posted elsewhere that he believes Taycan's miles per kwh consumption reports are higher than his actuals.

 

[ciaranob]

Ok. @Archimedes posted elsewhere that he believes Taycan's miles per kwh consumption reports are higher than his actuals.

I can get a anomalous results if for example I calculate consumption using energy input from charging histories IF I don’t account for charging losses - thee are some other pitfalls in using other metrics etc.

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