Taycan Values.

[W1NGE]

This may be interesting to anyone who hasn't put down their hard earned cash yet.
So i bought my taycan 4S cross turismo (my23 my personal spec) in dec 2022, it is a well specced car that i paid £107k for (before the price hike), i love the car but i am having issues with the fan and heater and now i'm completely locked out of the car!
Having seen various reports on Taycan depreciation i asked the dealer from whom i bought the car to give me a valuation, wait for it....They offered me £55k and the car is as new with 2500 miles on it! Now i knew the car would depreciate but 50% in a year!
My advice would be to get out while you can, its an amazing vehicle but no one can afford to lose that kind of money in such a short amount of time. i cant see them shifting barely any Macans at this rate and the Taycans keep piling up.
To put this in perspective i was offered £45k for a 5 year old macan turbo approximately 18 months ago.

18 months ago dealers were offering above list for Taycans.

The market is in a mess and not ust EVs. 6 month old 911s with 25K off list.

Flipping EVs in short order makes no sense today.

I think I'm resigned to keeping my GTS ST for quite some time unless Porsche sort this mess out.

Agree entirely on Macan EV take up (of course it will be a sales success but 2nd hand values may quickly go the way of the Taycan). How odd it would be to have 2nd hand Taycans at lower prices than an equivalent Macan EV.

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[Crazymind]

I am not so sure it will be a success. It’s very expensive. Starting price same as Cayenne.
Can’t see people dying to have one and waiting 18 months to drive it. It is still an Electric car following the faith of all the other EV.
Forgot to mention there will not be any ICE on this platform. To me seems the end of the Macan.

 

[andb]

How odd it would be to have 2nd hand Taycans at lower prices than an equivalent Macan EV.

Why? Macan's tech is superior and interior might be even better. I see the Macan EV in the same class as Taycan. Cayenne and Panamera are in upper class.

I am not so sure it will be a success. It’s very expensive. Starting price same as Cayenne.

Indeed very expensive, double the price of Ioniq 5. Porsche managers smoke more than Musk these days. I hope sales will be slow so we can get discounts.

 

[Dan1210]

[

Why? Macan's tech is superior and interior might be even better. I see the Macan EV in the same class as Taycan. Cayenne and Panamera are in upper class.



Indeed very expensive, double the price of Ioniq 5. Porsche managers smoke more than Musk these days. I hope sales will be slow so we can get discounts.

You should check out of spec reviews, he states quite clearly that Taycan is the premium ev having spent the day with the Macan engineers.

 

[whitex]

I actually agree with @McgR on this one. I’m well aware of the cost of developing software, or maintaining a number of different configurations. But the point here is one of spread - is the turbo really worth 2x the base model? The market seems to have spoken on that one, as the depreciation hits the higher trims far worse. We can make the very clear case that a GT model of the 911 is so different that its development cost (on top of the base model) is significant, and enough to justify the 2-3x asking price. (Rarity is another aspect.) That case vanishes with the Taycan range - it is the same car, with a larger motor.

For all we know, Porsche developed the Taycan at the top trim and detuned that for lower models; that is, it could be the price of the Taycan turbo is the real reflection of the cost of the project + profit margin, and the lower models are sold at cost. But somehow I find that hard to believe, because it would mean they’re either losing money on the lower models, or their profit margin is the spread/100%. So they truly asked for much more than they could have, but without enough “meat” to justify the diff, and in large enough numbers to forego exclusivity.

As an aside, Porsche is not new to this sharing of platforms or components across a vast price gap: early 911 and 912, or the Boxster and 996.1. At the time, they said the Boxster will pay for the parts, and the 911 will pay for development. Made perfect business sense, but incensed the 911 buyers, who wanted exclusivity for their higher acquisition price.

Lastly, not sure the console + games is an apt comparison; if, say, you were talking about FSD as an add-on, that makes sense as a high-price bit of software: it’s a separate project/a big cost for the manufacturer. But 2 different motors + ancillaries, running on the same chassis, battery, with identical software is not really “different” or an add-on; it’s just different parameters.

A recurring point you seem to make is that the price is somehow supposed to be capped by the cost. ? That is not how the world works. Price, or worth, is what people are willing to pay for a particular good or service. Taycans used to sell for well over MSRP 2 years ago, today under MSRP (which went up, but not as much as some ADMs used to be, like $25K), are today's Taycans cheaper to produce?

Why does a doctor get paid more per hour of his or her work than a delivery driver? Assume they are the same size, so their food costs are the same. Delivery driver is a more dangerous profession than a doctor too (way more deaths on the job per 100K workers, in the US it's more than police officers actually). I know, you will say the doctor's education costed money, what if education was free, would all jobs pay the same? Why do some programmers with a high school degree fetch more money than another with a phd?

You might be thinking "amount of contribution". Ok, why did Elvis Presley make so much more money than Albert Einstein? Did Elvis contribute more to the world society than Einstein? He was paid orders of magnitude more money.

Price of a good or service is set by supply and demand. Costs only provide a price floor. Providers of goods try to maximize profit by controlling supply or minimizing costs to lower the price floor. They also set MSRP but as per its definition, it's a suggested price, actual price is determined by the market. This actually results in maximum profit, as well as maximum production revenue (which is spent on other goods or to develop other products) which is a direct determining factor for things like GDP, which in turn is closely related to a standard of living (higher GDP countries have a higher standard of living). Using additional resources to increase a supply of some good in order to tank its price is not an efficient usage of resources, as those same resources could have been used to produce something else of more overall value.

I grew up in a communist country where prices were set by the government based on cost of production, as so many people in the US seem to believe nowadays. Everything was very affordable, but only on paper, as most things were never available to buy because there was never enough goods at such low prices, so the entire system was based on bribes and mutual benefit arrangements. I didn't even realize until I was learning my second language that growing up we rarely used the word "buy" or "purchase", the word "arrange" was used in its place. You arranged to get some meat for dinner, you arranged to get a bicycle for your kids. heck, you even had to arrange to see a doctor, even though theoretically healthcare was free to all. Occasionally, a few goods would show up in a store at retail prices just for show and to avoid government investigations - they disappeared off the shelves instantly, no matter what it was, because it could be used later to trade for something you actually wanted. There used to be a joke, which was actually very close to the truth - if you are out on the town and happen to see a line at a store, you should get in it and wait, even overnight, even if you only find out what's being sold once you get to the front of the line. Some of those lines were days long (e.g. people would notice there was a shipment of new goods delivered to the store on Friday, line formed knowing some small percentage of that shipment might be available at retail prices Monday morning, unless all of them got sold "under the counter" over the weekend). I remember my first bike - it took 3 attempts to stand in line overnight (sometimes family members would take turns standing in line), on the first one we were too far back, on the second one there was no bikes for sale at all even though a while shipment got delivered to the store (oh there was even an official government form to fill out a complaint, we did, nothing happened of course - those were also a lottery, some percentage of those would receive government response and some of those actually received an "allocation" for the good - again all for show, how great and fair the communist system is), and on the third try we got a bike on which I would not even fit, but hey, you always buy whatever is being sold. We ended up trading that bike for one I could actually ride later.

So I will conclude with this, "worth" or "value" is always defined as "worth to whom and when". There is no absolute worth. Personally I prefer a transparent open system, where I can see market prices, rather than a system where the market prices are obscured by bribes, connections, etc. So yes, I prefer the Tesla purchase mechanism, were you go on their site and order, rather than Porsche's allocation system which implies you need to know the right dealer with an allocation, allows them to play games with forced products, hidden fees, ADMs, etc. Tesla prices change a lot more often than Porsches MSRP, but that's because it just reflects the market. Oh, and having grown up in a back-room-deal economic environment I am quite capable of negotiating and achieving deals I want (I managed to get my Taycan Turbo CT under MSRP at the tail end of COVID), but I still prefer the transparent open market system.

 

[W1NGE]

I am not so sure it will be a success. It’s very expensive. Starting price same as Cayenne.
Can’t see people dying to have one and waiting 18 months to drive it. It is still an Electric car following the faith of all the other EV.
Forgot to mention there will not be any ICE on this platform. To me seems the end of the Macan.

I thought Porsche were to make both ICE and EV Macan side by side to protect the sales overall of what is a massive cash cow. Is this now not the case?

 

[WuffvonTrips]

I thought Porsche were to make both ICE and EV Macan side by side to protect the sales overall of what is a massive cash cow. Is this now not the case?

Not sure if this is the latest on the subject...
https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/361808/porsche-macan-canned-european-sales-stop-2024

 

[Scandinavian]

I thought Porsche were to make both ICE and EV Macan side by side to protect the sales overall of what is a massive cash cow. Is this now not the case?

I think there was a Press release in December that the Macan would stop being sold in Europe early this year. Something about not conforming to some EU requirement, but can not remember details now. Something about Cybersecurity?? It seems it was too expensive to make changes to conform? Will still be sold in other parts of the world though it seems.

 

[W1NGE]

Why? Macan's tech is superior and interior might be even better. I see the Macan EV in the same class as Taycan. Cayenne and Panamera are in upper class.



Indeed very expensive, double the price of Ioniq 5. Porsche managers smoke more than Musk these days. I hope sales will be slow so we can get discounts.

Superior tech?

From what I've seen it's a smash and grab of the parts bin of the Taycan primarily where many components have found their way (as you might expect) to the Macan.

Additional range isn't due to superior tech per se - more room for for more cells.

Macan is the Porsche entry point and so will have a lower price but as we've all learned (to our cost) that the options list and multi-variant choices will quickly muddy the waters.

I saw several of the test cars last year in Edinburgh and had a good look around whilst they were parked up. Physically it is a good looking motor (more so than the current model) and sure to sell in droves (assuming the ICE version continues alongside).

I've owned all the other models mentioned above and actually the quality across the range is always high. It only takes a tick in the extended leather box to see and feel that IMHO. If the Panamera is the pinnacle then I would worry - I had a wiper blade fall off, petrol cap cover replaced 3 times (it almost fell off) and interior trim come unfastened on my MY19 ST.

I will be in line for the Macan EV in time but not this release - learned that lesson with the Taycan!

 

[W1NGE]

Not sure if this is the latest on the subject...
https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/361808/porsche-macan-canned-european-sales-stop-2024

Yeah I read that - so it will still be sold for a while (not indefinitely) which is what Mr Porsche said when the EV was discussed. Note the talk is of EU only - so RoW could still see shipments for some time to come.

 

[Scandinavian]

I will be in line for the Macan EV in time but not this release - learned that lesson with the Taycan!

This!

 

[W1NGE]

I think there was a Press release in December that the Macan would stop being sold in Europe early this year. Something about not conforming to some EU requirement, but can not remember details now. Something about Cybersecurity?? It seems it was too expensive to make changes to conform? Will still be sold in other parts of the world though it seems.

Yep that's correct. But reference is to EU sales so ambiguous for RoW. I can't image they will continue when all said and done for RoW.

 

[Scandinavian]

Yep that's correct. But reference is to EU sales so ambiguous for RoW. I can't image they will continue when all said and done for RoW.

Yes will be interesting to see if it will continue to be sold in U.K.? It is an EU regulation so …..

 

[whitex]

I think there was a Press release in December that the Macan would stop being sold in Europe early this year. Something about not conforming to some EU requirement, but can not remember details now. Something about Cybersecurity?? It seems it was too expensive to make changes to conform? Will still be sold in other parts of the world though it seems.

ICE Macan is based on a rather old architecture which fails EU's new cybersecurity requirements coming into effect.

 

[W1NGE]

Yes will be interesting to see if it will continue to be sold in U.K.? It is an EU regulation so …..

Pretty sure it won't and can't see a little thing like Brexit getting in the way! We still adhere to pretty much all EU regs.

Brave move I'd say given the current market turmoil for EVs not least in UK where the window to change has been pushed to 2035. There will always be early adopters for sure and perhaps this will create a positive bounce for the Taycan.

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