GM follows Ford with NACS Tesla charge port adoption -- time to ditch CCS1 (at least the physcial design)

[whitex]

I’d be happy to use the Tesla app.

You and almost everyone else, but that would allow you to bypass the Porsche tax, so Porsche will fight it. The tax will be in the form of a Porsche branded adapter (which will probably require Porsche branded heat resistant gloves to handle, like Porsche EVSEs), and possible "convenience fee" for every KWh you get from Tesla.

Seriously though, Elon could be delaying this too, as the Ford app needs a way to integrate with Tesla.

Also note, "Ford owners will be able to reserve the adapter", which means absolutely nothing - talk to people who reserved a 2020 Tesla Roadster, or practically any Tesla car before it entered production (most recently cybertruck).

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[DRR]

Not to defend Tesla because what you say is accurate about their timelines but without Tesla I doubt we’d have a Taycan to drive. Tesla forced the hand of legacy OEMs to launch EVs when they lost luxury car market share. Legacy is looking to drag out the transition. Look how long it took to finally launch the Macan EV from announcement.

 

[whitex]

Not to defend Tesla because what you say is accurate about their timelines but without Tesla I doubt we’d have a Taycan to drive. Tesla forced the hand of legacy OEMs to launch EVs when they lost luxury car market share. Legacy is looking to drag out the transition. Look how long it took to finally launch the Macan EV from announcement.

I'm not anti Tesla. I've owned 4 Model S'es over a decade. They switched my household to all EV, though then Biden era EV incentives did a their job to get me to buy two more ICE cars (not a typo, government EV incentives made it more economical to buy non-EVs). I think Tesla makes the most practical, utilitarian EV's you can buy today (though the Chinese are catching up fast, e.g. Nio). I still use 3 Tesla Gen2 Wall Connectors at home, charging my Taycan and my wife's eTron at up to 19.2KW.

Tesla however has moved farther away from a luxury market - none of their offering today is a luxury car. After 2 consecutive Model S'es, my wife really wanted a Model X, but test driving one and then sitting in a new S made her change her mind. The old Model S'es fely a lot more luxury than today's offering.

Yes, legacy auto makers move slow, really slow. That's because they have never had much competition - when everyone else innovates at glacier pace, it makes everyone money to keep the status quo - customers don't have a choice to move to a better product, so why spend the engineering dollars, right? Personally I think a large chunk of automotive innovation sadly came from government regulation - if it wasn't for ever increasing standards, we'd still be driving on leaded gasoline getting 5 miles to a gallon, with no airbags or seatbelts, and on studded winter tires. After all, if all car makers would have the same crappy mileage, no seatbelts, etc. customers would have not choice but to buy one of the crappy production. They would probably think 6 miles to a gallon is great engineering. Today it's not government regulation, but new car companies competition - something unfathomable 20 years ago. I remember then Tesla announced the Model S, everyone in the industry said there is no way in hell another car company could be started and survive - the legacy automakers were too entrenched. Look at the market 15 years later - a bunch of new automotive manufacturers. Tesla was a large force that drove it to where it is today. I bet there are still some grey-haired old-guard auto executive out there saying "neh, new guys come and go, when it's all said and done, it will be just us old guys left again".

 

[Tooney]

Ford confirmed to InsideEVs that its customers will be able to Supercharge using the FordPass app or the vehicle's infotainment screen.
Ford owners won't need Tesla app to supercharge

 

[Tooney]

Ford confirmed to InsideEVs that its customers will be able to Supercharge using the FordPass app or the vehicle's infotainment screen.
Ford owners won't need Tesla app to supercharge

Will Porsche be close behind?

 

[whitex]

Will Porsche be close behind?

I thought Porsche strived to be leaders rather than followers.

 

[WasserGKuehlt]

I thought Porsche strived to be leaders rather than followers.

Drafting for the pass.

 

[ShiftyWolf]

I thought Porsche strived to be leaders rather than followers.

Haven't you seen that video where the 911 is lagging behind the Tesla Cyber Truck (for a 1/8 mile)?

 

[Tooney]

 

[whitex]

This might not be great news for existing Taycans, even first wave of MY25. Any required changes to the onboard charger software will likely significantly delay the roll out, especially cars already produced. Remember the original plug-and-charge timeline? There are still Taycans on the roads today which don’t have it enabled.

 

[daveo4EV]

I think this is more for cars that can support plug&charge but not required - Tesla app activation will remain

I don't see this has meaning anything other than there is now a new way to get the adapter "released" to plug in - you'll still need some way to activate the charging session - it will be app based - also this allows non-Tesla apps to activate a session - one less thing Tesla needs to provide an API for for 3rd party charging apps (I'm looking at your Ford).

this change "allows" for plug&charge but does not mandate it or require it - it simply enables it should it be supported.

 

[whitex]

I think this is more for cars that can support plug&charge but not required - Tesla app activation will remain

I don't see this has meaning anything other than there is now a new way to get the adapter "released" to plug in - you'll still need some way to activate the charging session - it will be app based - also this allows non-Tesla apps to activate a session - one less thing Tesla needs to provide an API for for 3rd party charging apps (I'm looking at your Ford).

this change "allows" for plug&charge but does not mandate it or require it - it simply enables it should it be supported.

My worry is that it's another distraction to Porsche. Rather than have one way to integrate, giving them options will just dilute their engineering efforts, causing delays. Let's hope I'm wrong. ?

Do you foresee Porsches charging at Tesla with an adapter this year?

 

[daveo4EV]

My worry is that it's another distraction to Porsche. Rather than have one way to integrate, giving them options will just dilute their engineering efforts, causing delays. Let's hope I'm wrong. ?

Do you foresee Porsches charging at Tesla with an adapter this year?

Porsche press release says 2025 - I think you will continue to be able to charge this year at MagicDock sites w/Tesla app session activation

as to what happens with a Bring your own adapter at V3/V4 sites - that all depends on how "locked" down Tesla makes session activation…

if they are strict - we'll have to wait until 2025 like the press release

if they are "loosey goosey" with session activation and you have your own adapter you might be able to charge at any site where any other CCS1 vehicle could charge

we'll have to see…

for me it all comes down to how "strict" the session activation is

I do not foresee plug&charge support prior to 2026…

 

[whitex]

Porsche press release says 2025 - I think you will continue to be able to charge this year at MagicDock sites w/Tesla app session activation

as to what happens with a Bring your own adapter at V3/V4 sites - that all depends on how "locked" down Tesla makes session activation…

if they are strict - we'll have to wait until 2025 like the press release

if they are "loosey goosey" with session activation and you have your own adapter you might be able to charge at any site where any other CCS1 vehicle could charge

we'll have to see…

for me it all comes down to how "strict" the session activation is

I do not foresee plug&charge support prior to 2026…

I can see plug-and-charge coming first, to eliminate sharing of Ford adapters about to go out for free to Ford EV owners. Perhaps plug-and-charge will be required as it gives Tesla more control over which cars are allowed to charge (the lock out their own cars which have been totaled, for safety reason I presume). Maybe they don't want Bolts at their supercharger for example.

 

[daveo4EV]

I can see plug-and-charge coming first, to eliminate sharing of Ford adapters about to go out for free to Ford EV owners. Perhaps plug-and-charge will be required as it gives Tesla more control over which cars are allowed to charge (the lock out their own cars which have been totaled, for safety reason I presume). Maybe they don't want Bolts at their supercharger for example.

Ford has already announced Supercharger support via the Ford "blue oval" app

I would agree with you if the EV vendors had shown any aptitude for plug&charge in the past 3 years - but no - they have no plug&charge infrastructure in their vehicles and it has to work with existing vehicles that factually do not have plug&charge - also most of the vendors lack any effective OTA update capabilities, to retrofitting plug&charge support (software update, worse if it requires new hardware) will require dealer service visits - both costly and time consuming…

finally the existing plug&charge "standard" does not offer support for multiple network vendors - so _IF_ a North American EV vendor supports plug&charge they support Electrify America…not Tesla

I see your logic, but I do not believe the industry can take that path given the rudimentary support they have for charging in their vehicles and lack the effective multi-vendor plug&charge standard…

my $1 bet is app based activation for the foreseeable future - and plug&charge support possible when NACS ports start showing up native in vehicle's - but I would personally be surprised if any meaningful plug&charge support happens prior to 2027/2028

humbly disagree but open to being surprised…

if this was "normal" tech adoption curves I'd agree with you 100% - but this is the auto industry - they have a way of making things difficult.

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