GM follows Ford with NACS Tesla charge port adoption -- time to ditch CCS1 (at least the physcial design)

[daveo4EV]

https://electrek.co/2023/06/08/gm-announces-adopt-tesla-nacs-connector/

June 22 Update: evidence is mounting that this is purely a physical design change and we are likely to continue using CCS protocols via the improved NACS connector/cables. non-Tesla's will remain CCS based EV's but with a better designed connector vs. CCS1's physical design.

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[snstevens]

Thank God.

Here's hoping that our charging infrastructure converts to this standard sooner rather than later, and of course that Porsche gets on board. I hate wrestling the CCS connector at EA.

 

[laua]

So in 10 years time or so I’m going to have to lug around a dongle to charge my car? We should’ve had mandated standards to begin with.

 

[npx]

So in 10 years time or so I’m going to have to lug around a dongle to charge my car? We should’ve had mandated standards to begin with.

not likely. at this rate it'll be NACS everywhere in ten years.

 

[snstevens]

So in 10 years time or so I’m going to have to lug around a dongle to charge my car? We should’ve had mandated standards to begin with.

I would agree with you except for a couple of points - 1) The NACS/Tesla standard is far superior in terms of weight and flexibility (it is much easier to attach to the car); 2) It will give car makers better options for installing charging ports on newer vehicles (and for them it's also cheaper); 3) We all need a standard and the possibility of Tesla opening their entire Supercharger network to Porsche vehicles is something I dream of

On another note, I knew I was on the bleeding edge of technology with the 4S purchase and I expected changes to occur. If and when Porsche gets on board I'll be lining up to buy a new Taycan with the NACS port(s).

 

[daveo4EV]

it's also worth noting that NACS handles both L1/L2 AC charging and there is an existing passive J-1772 adatper ($75 and exists and 100% functional for more than a decade) - but pure J-1772 AC connector is a licenced and patented connector design requiring licensing fees to use the J-1772 cable end (and probably the on vehicle port also)…

I'm betting NACS either has no licensing fees or more favorable licensing terms vs. pure J-1772

it's one of the Reason's TEsla's taps are $200 for a do nothing cable - it's at least $100 for the J-1772 connector on the adapter…

NACS is going to win here and it will be better in the end - this should all be over by MY'2025-2027 vehicle's and CCS adatpers for legacy vehicles will be available, and the CCS North American charging stations will start having NACS cords/adapters on site…

by 2030 this will all be a distant memory and all North American charging sites will be NACS or you'l simply use your NACS adapter as necessary (like you use a TeslaTap today).

 

[RBGtaycan]

wow..wow..now that Ford and GM adopt Tesla, maybe Porsche will???

https://insideevs.com/news/671267/gm-tesla-supercharger-charging-standard-breaking/

 

[UserNameRequired]

I don't have a history with Porsche yet - are they known for offering retrofits to cars (of course at a premium) but I'm wondering if this is an "easy" swap out?

 

[daveo4EV]

I don't have a history with Porsche yet - are they known for offering retrofits to cars (of course at a premium) but I'm wondering if this is an "easy" swap out?

no swap or planned or feasible IMHO - an Adapter is likely in all our futures - it will be like a TeslaTap but for CCS vehicle's - the reeverse of this existing adatper for Tesla's - future VW/Audi/Porsche vehicle's should come native with NACS ports - and adapters will suffice for vehicle's manufactured before date "X"...of the cut over (this is what Ford and GM are doing). A $200 adapter is way cheaper than _ANY_ retrofit when shop labor is $150/hour before parts, and something like this is way more than an hour to swap.

https://shop.tesla.com/product/ccs-combo-1-adapter?web=true

the adapter pictured below lets NACS vehicles (Tesla only to date) use existing North American charging stalls - the reverse exists/is-feasible for CCS vehicles to use an NACS fast charger.

for "slow" charging from Tesla to J-1772 or vice-versa adatpers already exist on the market and are effective, compatible, and affordable.

by 2028 only "legacy" North American vehicles will not come with a NACS port native from the factory (my prediction not a fact, but likely). NACS has numerous advantages over CCS for manufacturers and hte top 3 EV's in the North American Market going to NACS will place enormous pressure on others to follow (Tesla, Ford, GM are the top 3 EV vendors in North America)

 

[daveo4EV]

EV Macan roll out will be "awkward" for Porsche if they don't have a story by the time those are shipping - I'm not saying they need to support the NACS physical port on the vehicle - that ship has sailed - but adapter + supercharger access should be a matter of settled plan…

my prediction
Macan EV ships in 2024
Porsche will provide adatper + access by early 2025
2025/2026 Macan's ship with Adatper + access
2027 EV Macan's will come native with NACS for North America

the EV Boxster could be Native NACS for 1st generation.

but it will be really really really awkward for Porsche not to have a story here by the Time they are shipping Macan's…

at this point it's purely some EE work and supply chain logistics - which means 2025 is earliest, 2026 is likely - but adapter will suffice in the mean time.

 

[WasserGKuehlt]

I was a bit too young for the VHS vs Betamax war. I was not in the middle of (but fairly close to) the HD-DVD - BluRay war. This feels different, though - there's the small matter of a $100k+ investment on what increasingly appears to be the wrong charging format. Given how EA was founded (and funded), I can very easily see them folding in 1-2 years, and Porsche won't have any obligation to support Tesla DC charging.

 

[WasserGKuehlt]

EV Macan roll out will be "awkward" for Porsche if they don't have a story by the time those are shipping - I'm not saying they need to support the NACS physical port on the vehicle - that ship has sailed - but adapter + supercharger access should be a matter of settled plan…

my prediction
Macan EV ships in 2024
Porsche will provide adatper + access by early 2025

I gave your post a because there was no option for a reaction.

 

[daveo4EV]

I was a bit too young for the VHS vs Betamax war. I was not in the middle of (but fairly close to) the HD-DVD - BluRay war. This feels different, though - there's the small matter of a $100k+ investment on what increasingly appears to be the wrong charging format. Given how EA was founded (and funded), I can very easily see them folding in 1-2 years, and Porsche won't have any obligation to support Tesla DC charging.

but then they will have no EV sales potential in North America.

 

[daveo4EV]

I was a bit too young for the VHS vs Betamax war. I was not in the middle of (but fairly close to) the HD-DVD - BluRay war. This feels different, though - there's the small matter of a $100k+ investment on what increasingly appears to be the wrong charging format. Given how EA was founded (and funded), I can very easily see them folding in 1-2 years, and Porsche won't have any obligation to support Tesla DC charging.

you can "keep" the CCS charing protocol - and just run it across a NACS physical plug via adatper or otherwise - this more like USB-A vs. USB-C - I have all sorts of USB-A devices plugged into my my USB-C computers via adapters…

but yeah I'm not sure Porsche has a DC charging presence today in North American given how bad EA is…so folding it up and shutting it down may make no difference once I have access to Supercharger Network…

 

[WasserGKuehlt]

but then they will have no EV sales potential in North America.

I meant for current suckersexisting customers. It's not up to Porsche alone to support DC charging at a non-CCS station. Maybe there is an incentive for Tesla (to gain the likes of me as customers), but, unless I'm mistaken, both sides would need to make changes - if only in protocol - to allow my obsolete-any-day-now car to charge from a NACS station. That is, it's not just the adapter for high-speed charging.

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