Red Circle of DEATH

[Caraholic]

Which model year Taycan?

Mine is a 2020 though I don’t think that means anything.

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[whitex]

Mine is a 2020 though I don’t think that means anything.

It does not in any way justify the length of time it takes to make repairs, but it does provide a little more context. 2020 was the very first year Taycans were made, plus it's always good to know which model years are failing to see if there are any patterns. Also, when saying that car spent more time 5 months in the shop out of a year ownership, the fact whether the car was brand new or few years old does add information - car's age plus prior owner usage/maintenance can affect frequency of failures, which again is good to know to see if any patterns emerge.

 

[Caraholic]

It’s a CPO to top it off

 

[whitex]

It’s a CPO to top it off

I presume your original battery warranty is still valid (unless the car had >100K miles on it), but at least CPO gives you coverage for other things so you don't have to pay out of pocket. Out of the 5 months in the shop, how much of it was for battery issues?

 

[Caraholic]

I presume your original battery warranty is still valid (unless the car had >100K miles on it), but at least CPO gives you coverage for other things so you don't have to pay out of pocket. Out of the 5 months in the shop, how much of it was for battery issues?

car only had 20,000 miles on it. Four months straight was for battery issues. They replaced 12 or 13 cell packs. It was erroring out charging as well during that time. So they replaced more items to try and fix that. The additional 1.5month and counting is for the continued charging errors/failures. Then there is still the ARA4 recall which is yet to be determined.

 

[MAPC]

Porsche simply won't be in business in 10 years if they can't get the transition to EV cars to be flawless in terms of their reliability and maintenance (both low occurrence of issues requiring service, and fast turnaround when service is needed).

For that reason I have hope that all of us have already lived through the absolute worst part of the "bleeding edge" phase of new Porsche EV technology. Porsche has a chance to build on what they've learned, and release cars that live up the the Porsche brand. I believe that owners of the new MY25 Taycan and the new Macan EV are both going to experience an entirely different situation when it comes to reliability and dealer support/maintenance. Yes, I get that there still aren't enough EV-trained techs, but that is changing too -- it has to.

At the end of the day, you'll have to decide whether Porsche has crossed the line in your mind that puts them in the "never buy one of those again" category. For me, it has been worth the hassles, and I would buy another Taycan or Macan - no question.

Also want to say - No matter which way you go, thanks so much for your contributions to this forum. I've enjoyed reading your posts

I would not say that they have 'crossed the line' with me but just that they have seriously disappointed me in the customer service category. I am OK with being at the bleeding edge, and also with the inherent challenges that come with that at times. What I find inexcusable is their customer service and the process to resolve the issue. See text below where I outline that.

 

[MAPC]

Still have not had a chat with Porsche Customer Service- I will hit them up tomorrow after the holiday week.

My issue is not at all that there is a problem with the car (things happen, I get it) but in how it is being handled.

This is what it looks like now:
- 5 days to diagnose
- now waiting 2-3 weeks before Porsche even SCHEDULES an inspection so that they can further diagnose and potentially run more tests (delay due to another Taycan ahead of me at the dealership with the same issue and they only have room to work on one Taycan at a time when it involves the traction battery (special lift, etc)
- no word as to when any of this will happen, or what the resolution will be, or how long it will take

How it SHOULD happen (IMHO) if Porsche wants to keep a loyal customer:
-5 days diagnose OK (I understand that dealer has cars scheduled ahead and this was an emergency tow)
-Dealer runs the DX test, informing Porsche of the results and them deciding on remedy ASAP (either replacement or repair)
- repair/replace as soon as parts are available (again, I am understanding here that this may not be instant)
-daily communication with updates

From Porsche's perspective, I don't understand why they don't have a better process for customers like all of us who have trusted them supporting a new model- I'd think they would be very on top of issues like this, very apologetic and very communicative.

Only silver lining: dealer is swapping our my loaner Panamera for a Taycan tomorrow. I guess I can put miles on THEIR Taycan instead of mine for the next month or two.....

 

[X88]

My GTS was bricked by the red circle of death a few weeks ago. I had driven the car the previous evening and it had about 150miles of range left in the battery. The battery was still showing the same range after the "Electrical system error" came up on the main display the next morning.

Unfortunately it was a full six days before my car was actually inspected by a Porsch technician:

• I waited a day in the hope the car would reset itself and clear the fault condition overnight (it didn't)
• The tow itself took an extra day as my car had to first be extricated on tow dollies from the sixth floor of my apartment's limited-headroom garage
• By the time it got to the dealership it was midday on a Friday and there was a long queue of other Porsche's already waiting for scheduled maintenance and mine had to wait in line
• The techs only got their first look the following Tuesday

By that time the fault condition had cleared itself so there was nothing to diagnose (Sod's Law ?) and apparently there was no history info available on the electrical system failure that had bricked the car (really ??).

My dealership tested the car over the next two weeks and were not able to find any faults in the electrical system and told me they were ready to return the car to me. Even though they were not able to find any issues with the electrical system and have given it a clean bill of health, they also can't explain why my was bricked for several days (there's no way to know when the fault condition actually cleared itself but it lasted at least 3 days). I have no confidence that this was a one-off glitch and am dreading the red circle of death reappearing at a less convenient time and location. This time it was in my own garage; the next time it might be at a rest stop on a long distance drive.

When I return from travel and pick up the car this coming week, the conversation I plan to have with the dealership is about the service protocol to employ should my car need to be towed in again with the same issue, so they can have the best shot of retrieving detailed diagnostic information while the vehicle is still in a fault condition.

For example if they assigned a technician to immediately examine my car as soon at it arrives at the dealership, that would mean jumping the queue ahead of other vehicles already in for scheduled maintenance, but without this immediate examination there is every possibility that the fault condition will reset (as it did this time) before the tech has a chance to diagnose the fault. Once fault/diagnostic info has been retrieved and an initial diagnosis completed, the car can go back to the queue and wait for an available slot for the actual repair or remediation work to be done, and the tech can get back to their planned work on other vehicles ahead in the queue.

Given the sporadic and intermittent nature of EV system faults, and the critical need to retrieve error information from the faulty EV's system, perhaps this “rapid diagnostic” protocol should be standard operating practice at all dealerships.

This is a great user community and I've learned a lot over the past couple of years, so I'd appreciate any thoughts, advice and suggestions you all might have.

Thanks ...

 

[Tooney]

From Porsche's perspective, I don't understand why they don't have a better process for customers like all of us who have trusted them supporting a new model- I'd think they would be very on top of issues like this, very apologetic and very communicative.

'A better process' would cost Porsche a lot more money. Replacing an HV battery with local inventory instead of replacing modules would mean higher spare parts inventory costs.

Replacing modules means waiting for a limited number of fly-in battery techs to schedule travel to the dealership. Still less cost (and potential liability) to Porsche than training techs at every dealership.

It costs PorscheNA much less to pay for your loaner for 3 - 4 months than its expenses to quickly repair the HV battery problem.

POSIWID: Purpose of the system is what it does.

 

[Tooney]

Unfortunately it was a full six days before my car was actually inspected by a Porsch technician:
. . .
By that time the fault condition had cleared itself so there was nothing to diagnose (Sod's Law ?) and apparently there was no history info available on the electrical system failure that had bricked the car (really ??).
. . .
My dealership tested the car over the next two weeks and were not able to find any faults in the electrical system and told me they were ready to return the car to me.
. . .
I have no confidence that this was a one-off glitch and am dreading the red circle of death reappearing at a less convenient time and location. This time it was in my own garage; the next time it might be at a rest stop on a long distance drive.
. .
Given the sporadic and intermittent nature of EV system faults, and the critical need to retrieve error information from the faulty EV's system, perhaps this “rapid diagnostic” protocol should be standard operating practice at all dealerships.

What is the economic impact/incentive for a Porsche dealership to set up "rapid diagnostic" protocol just for Taycans with red electrical system errors and disrupt service schedule for all its other customers?

If a Porsche dealer won't rapidly diagnose the problem, will the customer take his Taycan somewhere else for rapid HV electrical system diagnosis and repair?

 

[X88]

What is the economic impact/incentive for a Porsche dealership to set up "rapid diagnostic" protocol just for Taycans with red electrical system errors and disrupt service schedule for all its other customers?
If a Porsche dealer won't rapidly diagnose the problem, will the customer take his Taycan somewhere else for rapid HV electrical system diagnosis and repair?

This red circle of death incident cost my dealership the expense of towing my car (which required two trucks, the first to tow my car out of my apartment garage on dollies and the second to take my car 35 miles across the city to the dealership), two weeks provision of a loaner vehicle and quite a few technician hours. It might make sense for them to minimize or eliminate the need to incur that all over again the next time around by getting to and addressing the root cause the first time?

More broadly, perhaps providing a more robust service experience might help with customer retention? I understand that a fair proportion of Taycan owners are new to Porsche, and might not be too impressed by these frustrating experiences.

 

[Tooney]

This red circle of death incident cost my dealership the expense of towing my car (which required two trucks, the first to tow my car out of my apartment garage on dollies and the second to take my car 35 miles across the city to the dealership), two weeks provision of a loaner vehicle and quite a few technician hours. It might make sense for them to minimize or eliminate the need to incur that all over again the next time around by getting to and addressing the root cause the first time?

More broadly, perhaps providing a more robust service experience might help with customer retention? I understand that a fair proportion of Taycan owners are new to Porsche, and might not be too impressed by these frustrating experiences.

Typically for a car in manufacturer warranty, all the expenses you listed will be billed and repaid to the dealer by PCNA. The dealer made money from your car's problem.

 

[Scandinavian]

'A better process' would cost Porsche a lot more money. Replacing an HV battery with local inventory instead of replacing modules would mean higher spare parts inventory costs.

Replacing modules means waiting for a limited number of fly-in battery techs to schedule travel to the dealership. Still less cost (and potential liability) to Porsche than training techs at every dealership.

It costs PorscheNA much less to pay for your loaner for 3 - 4 months than its expenses to quickly repair the HV battery problem.

POSIWID: Purpose of the system is what it does.

Guses the problem for Porsche is that the design is not intended to cater for a quick battery drop or swap. Like the design for Nio which can change a battery fully automated. Perhaps it would be better to have a few centres where they can change modules in a more factory like environment, while providing a stock of refurbished batteries.

I am a bit surprised that Porsche takes so long to do these repairs since one of the initial sales arguments, was for the possibility to exchange modules easily. I can understand the complicated process of repairing a battery with all the safety and sealing aspects etc. But just unplugging the battery from the car should be ( could be as proven by Nio) much easier!

 

[MAPC]

'A better process' would cost Porsche a lot more money. Replacing an HV battery with local inventory instead of replacing modules would mean higher spare parts inventory costs.

Replacing modules means waiting for a limited number of fly-in battery techs to schedule travel to the dealership. Still less cost (and potential liability) to Porsche than training techs at every dealership.

It costs PorscheNA much less to pay for your loaner for 3 - 4 months than its expenses to quickly repair the HV battery problem.

POSIWID: Purpose of the system is what it does.

I definitely understand that process- you are correct. But it doesn't make the customer service experience a good one. I would think that Porsche would assign some value to that.

 

[Genau]

By that time the fault condition had cleared itself so there was nothing to diagnose (Sod's Law ?) and apparently there was no history info available on the electrical system failure that had bricked the car (really ??).

My dealership tested the car over the next two weeks and were not able to find any faults in the electrical system and told me they were ready to return the car to me.

I urge you to get an OBDII reader and check your HV battery cell map and state of health before you have a failure not covered under warranty.

https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/threads/baseline-for-hv-battery-soh-performance.12815/post-279964​

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