Sponsored

USA - Will the NACS Port be STANDARD in 2026 ?

daveo4EV

Well-Known Member
First Name
David
Joined
Jan 28, 2019
Threads
192
Messages
7,006
Reaction score
10,476
Location
Santa Cruz
Vehicles
Cayenne Hybrid, 911(s) GT3/Convertable
Country flag
IIRC EA announced they will be deploying both cables for a while, NACS and CCS1.
I know that will happen - I'm not sure what schedule will be however r- so I think we're in adapter-land for quite a while - and there are still a lot of CCS1 chargers that need to transitioned. It's going to take a while.
Sponsored

 
Last edited:

daveo4EV

Well-Known Member
First Name
David
Joined
Jan 28, 2019
Threads
192
Messages
7,006
Reaction score
10,476
Location
Santa Cruz
Vehicles
Cayenne Hybrid, 911(s) GT3/Convertable
Country flag
the Macan is good to go - so I would expect it to go native NACS "first" - the post .2 Taycan (the next major refresh) will probably do two things
  1. move the charging port
  2. go Native NACS in North America
until the next major Taycan refresh I would be unsurprised if:
  • the current Taycan gen1/gen2 will keep the CCS1 port in North America
  • the port will remain "awkward" for Superchargers
  • will require an adapter
2028/2030 will refresh the Taycan (probably) and then we'll get a new port location and Native NACS ports in North America

YMMV my $0.02
I'm also willing to bet Porsche already "knows" this - and the plans for the post .2 Taycan - lets call it Taycan 2.0 - is already all in on these two changes - new port location - NACS for North America - and all the supply chains logistics to support it and the new onboard multiplexing AC/DC charging box to support NACS…

I do have one question - will both sides support FastDC charging? with J-1772 and CCS1 there is a clear physical difference so it's "obvious" only one side supports fast charging - only one side has the CCS1 charing port - but with NACS it's not obvious from looking at the port which is which - I'm wondering if both ports will support both AC/DC charging…it's technically feasible, but it's just more work to do it that way - or maybe it's not with NACS since there are no extra wires for AC vs. DC…we'll see - this is the one open issue that I'm not sure what side of the fence I come down on - we'll see. Personally I'd like/prefer if the car was ambidextrous and it didn't matter which Sid you plugged into…listening Porsche?

would be unsurprised if the design for all this is locked and loaded by mid-2025 for Taycan 2.0 - but we won't see it until 2028 or 2029 at an announcement…

but Porsche already knows this and are working the details, and it's a firm design commitment and the perfect time to do it - also software changes for supporting plug&charge w/Elong's bastard network - all a comprehensive design that has multiple moving parts.
 

whitex

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2021
Threads
87
Messages
8,206
Reaction score
7,239
Location
WA, USA
Vehicles
2023 Taycan TCT, 2024 Q8 eTron P+
Country flag
I'm also willing to bet Porsche already "knows" this - and the plans for the post .2 Taycan - lets call it Taycan 2.0 - is already all in on these two changes - new port location - NACS for North America - and all the supply chains logistics to support it and the new onboard multiplexing AC/DC charging box to support NACS…

I do have one question - will both sides support FastDC charging? with J-1772 and CCS1 there is a clear physical difference so it's "obvious" only one side supports fast charging - only one side has the CCS1 charing port - but with NACS it's not obvious from looking at the port which is which - I'm wondering if both ports will support both AC/DC charging…it's technically feasible, but it's just more work to do it that way - or maybe it's not with NACS since there are no extra wires for AC vs. DC…we'll see - this is the one open issue that I'm not sure what side of the fence I come down on - we'll see. Personally I'd like/prefer if the car was ambidextrous and it didn't matter which Sid you plugged into…listening Porsche?

would be unsurprised if the design for all this is locked and loaded by mid-2025 for Taycan 2.0 - but we won't see it until 2028 or 2029 at an announcement…

but Porsche already knows this and are working the details, and it's a firm design commitment and the perfect time to do it - also software changes for supporting plug&charge w/Elong's bastard network - all a comprehensive design that has multiple moving parts.
NACS will likely come with speced location of charge port (driver side rear corner or front passenger side corner) to match all Teslas. Second port might not be needed. On the Q8 etron 2nd, DC only port is optional for example, but the standard port is on the driver’s side, so with 2 ports you get DC on driver’s side only (opposite to Taycans). Driver side makes most sense since it’s always most likely yo be accessible - passenger side may be blocked by obstacles like a wall you park next to.
 

Tooney

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2021
Threads
743
Messages
4,452
Reaction score
3,637
Location
Ohio
Vehicles
2022 Taycan 4S
Country flag
in my upcoming Macan EV road trip we have a driving segment from Forrest City, AR to Albuquerque, NM - 900'ish miles - likely 3 charging stops for that one day - or a savings of 28.5 hours - ask me if care if the charging stop is $20, $30, $40…I don't - cause a hotel is $100-$300 a night and my time is valuable…
900 miles in one segment? You used to recommend about 500 miles a day. Something different about the Macan EV?
 

daveo4EV

Well-Known Member
First Name
David
Joined
Jan 28, 2019
Threads
192
Messages
7,006
Reaction score
10,476
Location
Santa Cruz
Vehicles
Cayenne Hybrid, 911(s) GT3/Convertable
Country flag
900 miles in one segment? You used to recommend about 500 miles a day. Something different about the Macan EV?
it needs to be done - we have 2 drivers switching off…we have plans on Sunday - those plans are best executed if we're all the way to Albuquerque by Saturday evening…

Macan can do 293 miles @ 70 mph - so I'll plan for 250 miles for charging

leave hotel full - 250 miles
1st charging stop - 500 miles
2nd charging stop - 750 miles
destination charging in Albuquerque 1000 miles…

so it's 2 stop day - and 1 charge at the destination - I've found a hotel in Albuquerque that is right next to a 10 rated EA charger - so we should be good.

if we do this one day - then the rest of the trip is easy peasy.
 


Tooney

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2021
Threads
743
Messages
4,452
Reaction score
3,637
Location
Ohio
Vehicles
2022 Taycan 4S
Country flag
it needs to be done - we have 2 drivers switching off…we have plans on Sunday - those plans are best executed if we're all the way to Albuquerque by Saturday evening…

Macan can do 293 miles @ 70 mph - so I'll plan for 250 miles for charging

leave hotel full - 250 miles
1st charging stop - 500 miles
2nd charging stop - 750 miles
destination charging in Albuquerque 1000 miles…

so it's 2 stop day - and 1 charge at the destination - I've found a hotel in Albuquerque that is right next to a 10 rated EA charger - so we should be good.

if we do this one day - then the rest of the trip is easy peasy.
If you can do 900 miles with only 2 stops not counting destination, you are good. I stop more often than that on 750 mile trips so I have enough SoC remaining to reach the next EA site in case I get to one that is either not working or backed up.
 

daveo4EV

Well-Known Member
First Name
David
Joined
Jan 28, 2019
Threads
192
Messages
7,006
Reaction score
10,476
Location
Santa Cruz
Vehicles
Cayenne Hybrid, 911(s) GT3/Convertable
Country flag
If you can do 900 miles with only 2 stops not counting destination, you are good. I stop more often than that on 750 mile trips so I have enough SoC remaining to reach the next EA site in case I get to one that is either not working or backed up.
well technically 4 stops
  1. overnight @ hotel to 100% soc
  2. start drive
  3. 1st charging stop
  4. 2nd charging stop
  5. arrive at destination
  6. charge at destination
that can cover close to 1000 miles with only two stops from point a to point b - but charging on both ends while not driving
 

Jonathan S.

Well-Known Member
First Name
Jonathan
Joined
Jan 19, 2023
Threads
43
Messages
2,089
Reaction score
1,908
Location
Amherst MA & Twin Mtn NH
Website
tinyurl.com
Vehicles
'22 4CT, '22 Audi A6 Allroad, '23 BMW i4 M50
Country flag
@Jonathan S.

as an economist I think you might appreciate my perspective on this:

I think the charging services are selling the wrong commodity - sure they have per-kWh costs - but what they are actually selling is time…

30 minutes for 70 kWh vs. 600 minutes for 70 kWh…

once I personally started thinking about it that way the cost per-kWh became irrelevant to me and I started thinking in terms of "session total cost" - 70 kWh @ .34 kWh is about $23 - I'm more than happy to pay $23 to save 9.5 hours at a charging stop.

two fast charing stops a day saves me 19 hours - I'm almost cost immune at that point in time once I started thinking about it that way - basically when I'm away from home fast charging is more expensive like eating out is more expensive than eating at home - $20-$30 per session is in-consequential vs. the alternatives…people are way to cost focused in my opinion and lose sight of the bigger picture in this context.

in my upcoming Macan EV road trip we have a driving segment from Forrest City, AR to Albuquerque, NM - 900'ish miles - likely 3 charging stops for that one day - or a savings of 28.5 hours - ask me if care if the charging stop is $20, $30, $40…I don't - cause a hotel is $100-$300 a night and my time is valuable…

my $0.02 (or $23) - YMMV
Agreed -- once those kWh are in the battery, they're all the same.

However, the time involved in getting off the highway ... waiting for an available plug ... dealing with handshake problems ... the actual kW (as opposed to ostensible rated kW) ... and the uncertainties regarding the latter three times ... far from all the same!

So far though I'm not seeing pricing that reflects those factors.
Magic Docks are on the higher end of the range, but still pretty much in line with some atrociously dysfunctional competing stations.
Trying to gauge the market from the EA FB group is interesting, since so many posters complain about "highway robbery" for small price differentials.

I'm also amazing at how some networks seem to want to discourage you from charging.
Although all ChargePoint has far too many lame 62.5kW DCFC units and ~6kW L2 units, at least the ability to add the RFID card to Apple Wallet allows for fast and flawless handshake every time.
Some other networks though don't seem to have adopted all the ways that other providers of goods and services encourage impulse purchases by making the actual transaction process so easy.
(I still remember, all the way into graduate school, how I had to bring cash or a check to buy groceries at a supermarket. Now by contrast, even taking out a credit card seems old-fashioned.)
 


daveo4EV

Well-Known Member
First Name
David
Joined
Jan 28, 2019
Threads
192
Messages
7,006
Reaction score
10,476
Location
Santa Cruz
Vehicles
Cayenne Hybrid, 911(s) GT3/Convertable
Country flag
Agreed -- once those kWh are in the battery, they're all the same.

However, the time involved in getting off the highway ... waiting for an available plug ... dealing with handshake problems ... the actual kW (as opposed to ostensible rated kW) ... and the uncertainties regarding the latter three times ... far from all the same!

So far though I'm not seeing pricing that reflects those factors.
Magic Docks are on the higher end of the range, but still pretty much in line with some atrociously dysfunctional competing stations.
Trying to gauge the market from the EA FB group is interesting, since so many posters complain about "highway robbery" for small price differentials.

I'm also amazing at how some networks seem to want to discourage you from charging.
Although all ChargePoint has far too many lame 62.5kW DCFC units and ~6kW L2 units, at least the ability to add the RFID card to Apple Wallet allows for fast and flawless handshake every time.
Some other networks though don't seem to have adopted all the ways that other providers of goods and services encourage impulse purchases by making the actual transaction process so easy.
(I still remember, all the way into graduate school, how I had to bring cash or a check to buy groceries at a supermarket. Now by contrast, even taking out a credit card seems old-fashioned.)
the slower the charge rate the more they are selling kwh's vs. time…fast fast fast charge rate = selling me time

slow slow charge rate I care about the price of the kWh's
 

whitex

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2021
Threads
87
Messages
8,206
Reaction score
7,239
Location
WA, USA
Vehicles
2023 Taycan TCT, 2024 Q8 eTron P+
Country flag
Trying to gauge the market from the EA FB group is interesting, since so many posters complain about "highway robbery" for small price differentials.
Some people are ignorant. The problem is that they see the cost of electricity at home, and then compare to the per KWh cost at a DC charger, and that gives them an impression that someone is trying to rip them off. The completely ignore all other costs. That's why manufacturers don't like sharing raw costs with customers. Maybe some people would feel better if they got KWh at cost, then be charged for parking and using the charger per minute? It would cost more for a lot of those people, but sometimes worse is what satisfies the irrational brain - for example when Tesla was shipping software locked performance motors, some people were livid that they are entitled to the full performance the motors can produce, so Tesla made crappier motors with thinner wires which of course had more resistance loss and would burn out if fed full power, but that pacified the outraged crowd - they'd rather have crappier hardware than better hardware with software limited performance. ?‍♂
 

Jonathan S.

Well-Known Member
First Name
Jonathan
Joined
Jan 19, 2023
Threads
43
Messages
2,089
Reaction score
1,908
Location
Amherst MA & Twin Mtn NH
Website
tinyurl.com
Vehicles
'22 4CT, '22 Audi A6 Allroad, '23 BMW i4 M50
Country flag

whitex

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2021
Threads
87
Messages
8,206
Reaction score
7,239
Location
WA, USA
Vehicles
2023 Taycan TCT, 2024 Q8 eTron P+
Country flag

Jonathan S.

Well-Known Member
First Name
Jonathan
Joined
Jan 19, 2023
Threads
43
Messages
2,089
Reaction score
1,908
Location
Amherst MA & Twin Mtn NH
Website
tinyurl.com
Vehicles
'22 4CT, '22 Audi A6 Allroad, '23 BMW i4 M50
Country flag
This will only matter if 2020-2024 Taycans get access (which Porsche never committed to). 2025 and later have no issues max charging at 400V.
Everyone has access to V4 since all of those pedestals have Magic Docks.
But the V4 power cabinets will make a difference to 2025 and later Taycans since otherwise they’re stuck in the 130s max kW at 400v chargers.
 

daveo4EV

Well-Known Member
First Name
David
Joined
Jan 28, 2019
Threads
192
Messages
7,006
Reaction score
10,476
Location
Santa Cruz
Vehicles
Cayenne Hybrid, 911(s) GT3/Convertable
Country flag
@Jonathan S. I have some interesting "real world" data over here on this thread - https://www.macanevowners.com/forum/threads/trip-report-im-peddling-as-fast-as-i-can-to-generate-electrons…-pec-atl-to-santa-cruz-in-a-macan-ev-turbo.17948/

road trip so far with the new Macan Turbo EV - based on two days of over 1200 miles - EA remains a sh*t show despite claims of improving - I've had mostly failures with EA 350 kW stations - if they are even online/functional…150's have been rock solid and saved my ass each time - but those are effectively no faster than superchargers…

don't let anyone tell you EA is getting better - so far I've not seen it in 1400 miles of actually trying to do…at least on Hwy 40 between Atlanta and Albuquerque - yeah - fail!
 

whitex

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2021
Threads
87
Messages
8,206
Reaction score
7,239
Location
WA, USA
Vehicles
2023 Taycan TCT, 2024 Q8 eTron P+
Country flag
@Jonathan S. I have some interesting "real world" data over here on this thread - https://www.macanevowners.com/forum/threads/trip-report-im-peddling-as-fast-as-i-can-to-generate-electrons…-pec-atl-to-santa-cruz-in-a-macan-ev-turbo.17948/

road trip so far with the new Macan Turbo EV - based on two days of over 1200 miles - EA remains a sh*t show despite claims of improving - I've had mostly failures with EA 350 kW stations - if they are even online/functional…150's have been rock solid and saved my ass each time - but those are effectively no faster than superchargers…

don't let anyone tell you EA is getting better - so far I've not seen it in 1400 miles of actually trying to do…at least on Hwy 40 between Atlanta and Albuquerque - yeah - fail!
350KW is the "up to" limit for EA, not a guarantee. When traveling in a Taycan, I have gotten 250KW+ probably 10% of the time. Other times 125KW-175KW seemed to be the norm, which is not horrible for long distance travel. On a bright side, limiting to under 100KW has been rare at the EA chargers I visited. The lowest DC charge rate I remember was 60KW.
Sponsored

 
 








Top