POLL - How much would you pay for Porsche Connect

[whitex]

Waze, Google Maps and Apple Maps are providing better service for navigation etc and they are free.

They are not free. You pay for it with your data, advertising, etc. Like a "free" gmail account, you think it's free, but you agree for Google to scan information from your email and collect data, which is valuable to those who want to use it to extract more money out of you, through advertising, customized pricing, etc - different free apps have different monetization schemes. Think about it, it likely costs tens of millions of dollars every month to keep gmail running - Google is not a charity. They have a paid option by the way, if you prefer not to pay with your data.

Which brings us to yet another argument against free Connect service - it incentivizes the manufacturer to try to monetize it other ways - sell your data for example. There was a car manufacturer not long ago which was exposed as selling your driving data to brokers which then sold it to insurance companies so they can raise your rates if they feel you don't drive calmly enough, or slow enough. This is just one example how users end up paying for the "free" service - turned out to be quite expensive for some, they just didn't know it.

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[whitex]

To make this poll more useful, please only select free if you refuse to renew at any cost other than free.

choose other options as the max you are willing to renew at.

Maybe the poll options should have been "I will not renew unless it costs less than [FREE, $100, $150, ....] a year", with a last option "I will renew at current $319 price".

 

[chun]

Which brings us to yet another argument against free Connect service - it incentivizes the manufacturer to try to monetize it other ways - sell your data for example.

While Porsche has not been explicitly caught selling driver/user data, its practices involve sharing data with third parties for specific services, contingent on user consent. The company has faced criticism for potential security flaws and broad data collection but maintains a focus on transparency and user control through its Privacy Center.

For example Porsche is not selling your data - or has not been cought, but they are sharing it with google, if you want your maps to have full functionality
And if you do opt out, you'd be shocked to find out that you can't find locations by name anymore. You can't see live status of chargers anymore. You don't get re-routed in case of traffic. Do you want to know about traffic, you can't, you opted out of sharing your data with google.

So now, do you trust google doesn't sell your data?

Premium prices, just for google to have my data anyway, if I want stuff to be working... Mhmmm, not so premium service. So why didn't they build their own maps, with their own database, with their own live tracking of location, with their own live traffic info, if they charge premium anyway?

Free may be shit. And free may be sharing or stealing your data.

But in this case, premium is still shit, and data is still being shared - not sold, but shared.

 

[whitex]

California has decided that there is a societal benefit to allowing all consumers to access all pharmacies, without being required to pay subscription fees. This prevents large chains from using "'embrace and extinguish" to eliminate competition and then demand communities pay to access prescription medicine.

As a result, I can walk up to the door at Costco and say the magic word "pharmacy", and they have to let me in without a membership card. This has not resulted in a noticeable decline in the quality of service at Costco pharmacy counters, as far as I can tell.

Funny you should bring this up. I recently started paying for an extra membership for my kids, solely so they can use the Costco pharmacy for their contact lenses (net cost is still lower). This is because I cannot get their contacts under my membership once they turned 18. If I lived in California, Costco would lose this annual membership fee from me. I suspect they lose a bunch of memberships in California. All that means is that the costs are passed onto other members, either via higher membership fees, or higher prices (maybe just pharmacy items, or perhaps distributed across all items - it's not like Costco prices are the same across all states toady, so you'd never know if there was a small surcharge to pay for free pharmacy access in CA). It would be interesting to compare Costco pharmacy priced in California vs. other states which don't require them to offer free access.

 

[violuma]

I recently started paying for an extra membership for my kids, solely so they can use the Costco pharmacy for their contact lenses (net cost is still lower).

FWIW, https://customerservice.costco.com/...-a-membership-to-purchase-prescription-drugs? seems to suggest that you might want to inquire as to whether that membership is actually needed.

 

[whitex]

As opposed to paid software, that rarely works and with rare updates, in the case of Porsche.

I am all for premium prices, if they are charged for premium service. Displaying a % is hardly premium, and neither is starting clima in the car. It's basic functionality that many other brands do for free.

My point is, let's stop saying: free = shit quality.

Because right now we pay premium for shit quality

And again, it's bullshit like this for which Porsche is dying in China. EVs there release with 50x more capable software, and shockingly, it's free.

Premium prices should come with premium services, and for porsche that's no longer the case. So i'd much rather have it for free, since it's clearly already as shit as it can be just above the line of having them be ridiculed in car ads like in the good old days

Nothing is free. Would YOU be willing to pay for software developers (both in vehicle and server) to continue at least patching for security vulnerabilities, cloud hosing, etc to provide this service for all Porsche cars for FREE for as long as you live? I suspect no. That means you know there is not a small cost associated with keeping these "basic functions" running. Sure, you can have this included in the price of the car, but that just raises the price. So for example, you could have a Taycan for $149,900 with paid Connect service, or the same one for $151,999 with 10 years of Connect included. Personally I find it amusing how people prefer to have no choice, just want everything bundled - this is probably why Porsche just did that in the latest configurator (prices went up, 10 years of service is now forced on customers, they just don't have it itemized out).

 

[whitex]

FWIW, https://customerservice.costco.com/app/answers/answer_view/a_id/796/~/do-i-need-a-membership-to-purchase-prescription-drugs? seems to suggest that you might want to inquire as to whether that membership is actually needed.

Thanks for that. I will inquire. It was less than a year ago when my wife went to get my daughter's prescription lenses and they refused to fill it under her membership. Maybe it changed? Or maybe prices are different for members vs. non-members? Will look into it. Could save me ~$60 a year.

EDIT: I just though of possible reason. Optical (glasses, contact lenses) are separate from the pharmacy at Costco, so may not fall under this non-member access policy.

 

[xristian]

Tesla charges $99 for the premium connect service. That seems fair, considering you get:
Navigation, Live Traffic Visualization, Sentry Mode-View Live Camera, Satellite View Maps, Video Streaming, Caraoke, Music Streaming, and Internet Browser.

Porsche offers music, navigation, and battery status for $350, which, compared to Tesla's offering, feels like a crash grab by Porsche.

As a senior data Engineer, I'm happy to pay for software but at least make it competitive in the market. Porsche is supposed to be a luxury/premium brand, but the software offering is not premium.

Most of my data needs are addressed with CarPlay, so charging $350 to check the battery level starts to feel like a rip-off, especially when Tesla provides it for free.

 

[Flying ace]

The cost is in line with BMW's connected drive service

 

[JustWatching]

This isn't quite how the math would work, but kind of...
At the moment when I looked at vote counts

Assuming (aka guessing) cost is 25% of the $319 retail price, i.e. $79.75


40 votes of $100 or more, so at a retail of $100, revenue would be $4,000, profit $810

17 votes of $200 or more, so at a retail of $200, revenue would be $3,400, profit $2,044

15 votes of $250 or more, so at retail of $250, revenue would be $3,750, profit $2,553

13 votes of $300 or more, so at retail of $300, revenue would be $3,900, profit $2,863.

10 votes @ $319 = $3,190 revenue, profit $2,393


Feel free to opine and check my math...keeping it simple but my conclusions are:

If you are in the $250-300 camp keep an eye for Black Friday deals? Have no idea if it exists but at 15% discount it would put it at $271

For anyone expecting a big discount due to low renewal rates, seems unlikely it will ever gets under the $270 mark.

Dear Porsche, looks like the correct price point to get people to bite is $299.

PS Porsche if you are reading this and update your price to $299 I expect a free lifetime subscription.

 

[violuma]

For example Porsche is not selling your data - or has not been cought, but they are sharing it with google, if you want your maps to have full functionality
And if you do opt out, you'd be shocked to find out that you can't find locations by name anymore. You can't see live status of chargers anymore. You don't get re-routed in case of traffic. Do you want to know about traffic, you can't, you opted out of sharing your data with google.

What are you basing these assertions on? I can say this:

1. I have explicitly filed "do not share my personal data" paperwork with Porsche.
2. I know that it had some effect, because before I did that, there was "personalized" content in the TYD website, which turned into "nothing to see here" black boxes afterwards.
3. The non-Google navigation screen shows roads in colors corresponding to (relatively) real-time traffic and what at least purports to be live charger status. I guess I haven't actually gotten out and counted whether the numbers of available chargers matches what's on the screen, but there are numbers on the screen.

 

[whitex]

Tesla charges $99 for the premium connect service. That seems fair, considering you get:
Navigation, Live Traffic Visualization, Sentry Mode-View Live Camera, Satellite View Maps, Video Streaming, Caraoke, Music Streaming, and Internet Browser.

Porsche offers music, navigation, and battery status for $350, which, compared to Tesla's offering, feels like a crash grab by Porsche.

As a senior data Engineer, I'm happy to pay for software but at least make it competitive in the market. Porsche is supposed to be a luxury/premium brand, but the software offering is not premium.

Most of my data needs are addressed with CarPlay, so charging $350 to check the battery level starts to feel like a rip-off, especially when Tesla provides it for free.

Will you not renew Connect service? Or will you buy a Tesla instead?

 

[whitex]

For example Porsche is not selling your data - or has not been cought, but they are sharing it with google, if you want your maps to have full functionality

Having a connected car exposes your privacy in many ways, not just directly from the car manufacturer.
https://yro.slashdot.org/story/25/0...f-government-surveillance-police-records-show

 

[Murph7355]

Nothing is free. Would YOU be willing to pay for software developers (both in vehicle and server) to continue at least patching for security vulnerabilities, cloud hosing, etc to provide this service for all Porsche cars for FREE for as long as you live? I suspect no. That means you know there is not a small cost associated with keeping these "basic functions" running. Sure, you can have this included in the price of the car, but that just raises the price. So for example, you could have a Taycan for $149,900 with paid Connect service, or the same one for $151,999 with 10 years of Connect included. Personally I find it amusing how people prefer to have no choice, just want everything bundled - this is probably why Porsche just did that in the latest configurator (prices went up, 10 years of service is now forced on customers, they just don't have it itemized out).

Your point is well made about no such thing as a free lunch.

Ref bundling, more and more of these services are getting core to the way these cars are used. Being able to see charge levels remotely, for example. It makes more sense, to me, to bundle them and ensure your product, and the options paid for, actually work.

And on that, they will have to find a way to go beyond 10yrs in terms of continuing to provide access to options and basic functionality. IMO.

 

[whitex]

And on that, they will have to find a way to go beyond 10yrs in terms of continuing to provide access to options and basic functionality. IMO.

I am really curious what will happen. The only car I know that has gone past 10 years is Tesla, but they've had OTA capabilities 13 years ago that Porsche hasn't even began to approach today, and their software is so much more updatable (vertical integration, Tesla doesn't have to pay all the Tier 1 suppliers to keep updating the software). Even Tesla will reach their limit, I am very curious to see what happens then. My speculation - they are hoping LTE is sunset, so all their old cars will just lose connectivity. The very first Teslas were sold with 3G, but Tesla did offer a paid LTE upgrade, so there are some 2012 Model S cars with LTE out there.

I've seen software support quotes of what it costs to maintain latest and greatest software on hardware which gets older and older - the costs grow exponentially. For example, let's say you have an embedded SoC running Linux version X. At some point, a new Linux kernel is released, and now you need to either build a team that monitors open source vulnerabilities (many per day) and ports fixes back to an unsupported kernel, or you have to port the new kernel and all your software to the old hardware, which is not always easy, especially if new kernel doesn't support old hardware, so you have to add that support yourself. LTS (Long Term Support) kernels for Linux are supported for about a decade, but you have to start the timer when you start developing with it, not when you release your product. Some automotive OS have longer support, but it also gets expensive the older they get, plus a lot of the internet connectivity software is not part of the OS. Bottom line is this, in order to keep a device securely connected to the internet, you have to actively maintain it, and that maintenance gets more expensive the older the hardware is, as everyone else moves to new hardware.

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